For those who read the book and/or kept up with the Bundy and Green River Killings, I have a question. Did Bundy's profiling about the Green River Murders help narrow the search to Gary Ridgway as seen in the movie, or was it a 'dramatization' or a little poetic license?
Thank you,
ncmoviefan
I wouldn't really say that the film made it look like Bundy had an impact on actually finding Ridgeway, however, Bundy's main suggestion was waiting at a fresh crime scene for the killer to return. The problem was, they never found crime scenes fresh. Bundy knew from personal experience that he returned to the crime scenes, for explicit reasons. Bundy was trying to catch Ridgeway to aid in getting a stay of execution, however, a great question is whether or not he would have cared about catching Ridgeway anyways. I wonder what his feelings towards him really were, whether he was jealous, looked down on him, etc. I know he expressed that he thought Ridgeway was amatuer for luring victims that would get in a stranger's car anyways, but it's unclear how Bundy authentically felt about another killer.
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Stand.
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I think it's improssible to know of course what went on in Bundy's mind at that time, many have speculated about his motivations for helping in the Green River case. Redemption? Narcissistic ambitions? I won't speculate, but I'm convinced he looked down on the killer who to him killed only unattached and vulnerable prostitutes and runaways while he killed smart, beautiful, popular college girls. I haven't seen this movie yet, in little old Quebec we don't have A&E nor is it yet available on DVD, but I have read the Keppel book, a masterpiece of study of the pathological mind, and Rule's Green River Running Red, and certainly Ridgway ends up looking like the petty hunter Bundy was trying to portray.
shareDon't know if you have or not, but you should definitely read "The Stranger Beside Me" if you liked those other books.
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Stand.
www.michaelsavage.com
Personally, I think the reasons that Bundy reached out to Keppel were manyfold. First and foremost was to try and serve his own means (ie; a stay of execution). Second, Bundy, as most serial killers, was a megalomaniac who could not stand that the spotlight was not on him anymore as the most prolific "sex killer" in modern history (as the term was back in the day). Anyone see a parallel with OJ here?? But I digress...Third, he wanted to be thought of as better. Part of him could not stand that people, especially detectives, were calling him a mere "killer" - he had to prove to them that he was intelligent, articulate, and that he was worthy of respect. Fourth, I believe that Bundy was jealous of other killers who were free and still active; and so if he intimated himself into the investigation, he would have access to information, crime scene photos, etc., and then be able to vicariously feed that compulsion in him.
I could list many more, but these are the first that come to my mind.
Sorry, I didn't read the comments until after I posted my own and there are some things you guys have said and hit on perfectly that I forgot to say.
To you eadaoin7 and sevenof9infl you guys hit on perfectly what I was thinking to myself as I watched the movie.
Like, when after Keppel got out of the shower and looked at Bundy's old police photo and went to Reicharts(sp?) room and said that Bundy would use the interviews to actually talk about himself which was true.
Then there was that scene of Bundy in his cell looking at that magazine/newspaper and it had something garrish in it and he started to "touch himself" like he was getting off on it which led to the scene of when he got the first file and there weren't any crime scene photographs in it and it was like he wanted those to look at to get off on? but Keppel purposfully kept them out of the file because he knew Bundy was lusting for the photos, sort of like if Bundy couldn't be out killing then looking at pictures of someone elses work would be the best he could get if he couldnt be out killing.
And it was obvious that Bundy thought Ridgeway was inept and looked down on him because he went after prostitutes, when Bundy thought he himself actually put work into getting his victims and that they were of a better class because they werent prostitutes? But I never thought that maybe Bundy was jealous because he was locked up and couldnt do what he longed to be doing and that someone that he looked down upon was still able. Thats an excellent possability.
I also recall that, towards the end, during the interviews, how Keppel would bring up a perticular victim that Bundy was linked to, George or Georgia, but when Bundy would talk about her, instead of saying "what he did" he would say "what the entity did" and would get angry when Keppel refused to let Bundy say it that way.
And the megalomania is another good point. He wanted to be in the spotlight, Bundy, but there was this new killer out there that the public was focused on now and that probably ate at Bundy. And yes, good point with OJ, like how he wanted to "write that book saying that he didn't do it but stating how he would have done it if he actually would have killed Nichole and Goldman", which is absolutely disgusting and unthinkable. The fact that OJ wanted to write that book settled it for me 100% that he did kill those two, because it is a fact that megalomania is often seen in people who are capable of such an act and he wanted to get that urge or whatever by writing that book, which okay, he might not understand that most of the public would not or could not even comprehend of reading such filth, but what about the publisher, the people who were like, yeah, okay, it's absolutely disgusting, but money is money???? sorry, got off the path there, but good point.
Anyways, there were a lot of little things that added up to big things in the end that showed the inner workings and thinking of a madman. There were things that we learned from the crime scene and such, but there were things that we could never have known had Bundy not talked, but it didnt help him at all. There was that scene when Bundy wanted Keppel to talk to the warden or someone to stay his execution. That is the only reason I think Bundy talked, because even though it gave him attention he sought, he was giving away like the secrets, the things he NEVER would have otherwise told, the most intimate of "reasonings" and the working and thinking of people like him, that probably have proven useful to profilers. There was so much more but I have to stop somewhere.
Anyway, the movie was hard enough for me to watch and would love to read the book but I think that would be too heavy for me. I tend to get nightmares more from books than movies, kinda weird. Keppel and Reichart and everyone else that worked this case for all those years did good work.
There is some debate about how many of the 48 murders Ridgeway confessed to he actually committed, throughout the innestigation there was talk of more than one murderer at work and it's no secret that in this case the penalty for admitting to 48 murders was less than being found guilty of 7.
shareJust as in the movie, Bundy's primary conversations were with Keppel, not Reichart, and how much real assistance given to the task force is debatable. He did say that the suspect had probably been arrested for some sort of sex crime (Ridgeway had been arrested for soliciting a prostitute) and that he doubtless lived and worked in the area and was very good (as Bundy had been early on), at "blending in."
I don't want to put words into Keppel's or Reichart's mouths, but I think they both knew Bundy really was "fishing" for a delay or commutation of his death sentence. He did provide a lot of insight into the way a serial killer thinks and operates; and that information, in a general way, has helped law enforcement catch other serials earlier in the game.
As for the actual conversations, there are pages and pages and pages of actual conversations in the book which mirror pretty closely the conversations in the movie.
Pretty dark stuff, actually. However, if one likes to study serial killers, it's #1 on the list of "must-reads."
The puzzle of Bundy is that if he had not been under threat of death, he would probably have not talked at all; however, what he had to say was too little too late to save his life. I came away from reading the book actually feeling sorry for him, and trust me, that is not a feeling I ever thought I would muster for the SOB.
Eddie: "You just broke his ankle, Jack!"
Jack: "He shouldn't have been playing with adults." ii.iv
I have just watched the movie, can someone tell me if it's worth my while to track down and read the book? By that I mean, is it more detailed and beneficial?
Thanks in advance.
~Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe~
IMHO, it's definitely worth the time; however, it is not for the faint of heart, and in that regard it is VERY different from "The Stranger Beside Me."
"As the Philosopher Jagger said, you can't always get what you want."
This movie will be coming out soon to DVD and Blu Ray in the US. stay posted.
share'sevenof9fl'...
Sorry this is such a late reply but I wanted to thank you for answering my question re: the book. I have read hundreds of books on Serial Killers, Forensic Science, etc. etc. and will have no problems reading this type of material, but I thank you for thinking to point it out for anyone who may also want to read it.
*Also, thanks to everyone who has given in-depth reviews/thoughts/opinions, it's interesting to get your different perspectives and opinions. Much appreciated.
~ “Being brilliant is no great feat if you respect nothing.” ~
It's March 2009, and I just saw this film for the first time lastnight on the BIO channel.
It was mostly good, but I remember thinking to myself as I watched that I thought it was going to be soley about Ridgway, like how he commited his crimes and why. But for me the movie was more about Bundy, getting close to his own execution date sent a letter to that psychological profiler guy up here in Seattle, Kepple, I think his name was? Anyway, it was more about Bundy wanting to "help" "find" the 'riverman' as he called him.
My take on his doing so was because he knew that having exhausted any appeals and having his execution date set in stone and it was getting real close and he was getting scared and wanted desperately to find a way, anyway, to try and buy some time. He was obviously scared. But the Seattle police, having been on the hunt for the 'Green River killer' for some time and not being able to make any head way on their own and so they took Bundy up on his offer of "help to help profile" the 'riverman'.
I don't think he did anything to help catch Ridgway. The Seattle Police actually had brought Ridgway in previously because of his involvement with prostitutes on the srip but let him go because he seemed "too normal" to the police. But during one of the times that the cops had Ridgway he took and passed a lie detector, because he felt no guilt for his crimes, so he had no problem passing a lie detector test. But he also let them take a cheek swab from inside his mouth, not knowing that that swab would actually be what brought him down once the forensic science and testing got good enough in 2001.
I'm rambling, but I think they took Bundy up on his offer of help because they had nothing else to go on at the time, and also because of the 8 unsolved murders that Bundy himself had been linked to while he was here in Seattle. Kepple did get Bundy to admit to those 8 murders before his execution, but I dont think Bundy did anything to help catch Ridgway.
Ridgway wasnt brought down until November 2001 well after Bundy's execution. They had thought that it possibly was Ridgway for the last couple of years before that but all they had was circumstantial evidence which they werent sure would hold up in court and the Police understandably wanted Ridgway to not be able to get away once they had him.
I ramble on too much, so I'll stop now, but I think I made clear what I think. Sorry for the length.
But it was an alright movie. The actors were excellent in their craft and I have no complaints about the movie other than that I thought it would be more about Ridgway, but it was mostly about Bundy and what he tried to do to basicaly try and buy some time, which really didnt work.
If you read this all the way to the end then thank you and Godbless :)