Why does Islam seem to breed so much hatred?


I know this will offend many people but that is not my intention. It is supposed to be a religion of peace but yet here we have an example of something that happened in 1983 that mirrors what is happening today; the slaughter and intolerance of people with different beliefs.

Weather you are Muslim, Christian, Jew, etc, if you believe that God condones the murder of innocents in the name of your religion or for any reason then you are mentally ill. There is a growing danger from radical Islam around the world that I don't think is being taken seriously enough.

What is wrong with racial profiling at airports? It was not the Swedes that flew planes into buildings. If a white man murdered my sister I would not want police to question black and white men so as to not be biased. If I was a Muslim I would expect them to look at me closer, that is reality. I would want them to focus on the most likely source. What is that a problem for anyone to understand?

Why do Muslims want to kill people that do not believe in the same religion as them? Why is there such a lack of value for human life?

For the record, I was raised Catholic but consider myself a believer in God only. I think there are good things from all regligions including Islam, but I refuse to align myself soley to one of them because it seems to breed so much hatred to think your religion is the best one.

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Islam does not breed hatred! That is a small percentage of extremists. There is something wrong with racial profiling, because it is racist! Not all Muslims are terrorist and not all terrorists are Muslim. Maybe you should pick up a book on Islam rather than buy into what you see on TV.

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I have a pretty good general idea of what Islam is supposed to be about. I know it is a religion of peace. My question is what is it about it that creates so many extremists? And your answer that racial profiling is wrong because it is racist doesn't solve the problem. What would you suggest instead? That they keep searching 90 year old women instead of focusing on the most likely suspects? I don't "buy" in to what I see on tv. I know it is a small percentage but the majority of terrorist threat we face now is from Muslim extremists. Of course all terrorists are not Muslims and vice/versa. I realize that.

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It's not simply Islam. See:

The Catholic Rulers Ferdinand and Isabella (the Spanish Inquisition)
Salem Village and Salem Town, Massachusetts
Timothy McVeigh
Haredi Jews
Baruch Kappel Goldstein


Aut disce aut discede.

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Timothy McVeigh? Are we just including murderers and throwing them under a relgious banner because religion is the fun thing to attack these days? You are undoubtedly one of our present day atheist of agnostic know it alls who think that the Catholic church attacked blatantly innocent people and bunch all religions together; you find yourself to be one of the special truly enlightened people of our society, bringing the truth to people one false relgion at a time. Well, sir, you may think yourself a great philsopher of a "man of science", but indeed you are a wart to the hand of society. I'm sure you enjoy that imagery, actually. In any event, read the truly wise words of someone you are clearly to enlightened to have read yourself. Naturally everything I think could be entirely wrong, though I doubt it.

For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. In one sense, of course, all intelligent ideas are narrow. They cannot be broader than themselves. A Christian is only restricted in the same sense that an atheist is restricted. He cannot think Christianity false and continue to be a Christian; and the atheist cannot think atheism false and continue to be an atheist. But as it happens, there is a very special sense in which materialism has more restrictions than spiritualism. Mr. McCabe thinks me a slave because I am not allowed to believe in determinism. I think Mr. McCabe a slave because he is not allowed to believe in fairies. But if we examine the two vetoes we shall see that his is really much more of a pure veto than mine. The Christian is quite free to believe that there is a considerable amount of settled order and inevitable development in the universe. But the materialist is not allowed to admit into his spotless machine the slightest speck of spiritualism or miracle. Poor Mr. McCabe is not allowed to retain even the tiniest imp, though it might be hiding in a pimpernel. The Christian admits that the universe is manifold and even miscellaneous, just as a sane man knows that he is complex. The sane man knows that he has a touch of the beast, a touch of the devil, a touch of the saint, a touch of the citizen. Nay, the really sane man knows that he has a touch of the madman. But the materialist's world is quite simple and solid, just as the madman is quite sure he is sane. The materialist is sure that history has been simply and solely a chain of causation, just as the interesting person before mentioned is quite sure that he is simply and solely a chicken. Materialists and madmen never have doubts.-

GK Chesterton in Orthodoxy

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absolutely perfectly said Therwood.

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stoncoaus wrote:
"I have a pretty good general idea of what Islam is supposed to be about. I know it is a religion of peace."

You could have "learned" that listening to Rush Limabaugh. Besides, is there a religion out there that DOESN'T claim to be peaceful? I doubt if you are able to, but can you please expand on your "gretty good general idea of what Islam is supposed to be," please?

Again, quoting stoncoaus:
"My question is what is it about it that creates so many extremists?"

In comparison to what? Hitler wasn't a Muslim; nor Pol Pot, or any of the other genocidal maniacs of the last few centuries. Why focus on Islam? Methinks because you have been sold a bill of goods. Until the USSR fell, "Communism" was the greatest threat to the planet. Now that it's "gone" the US military-industrial complex has to come up with another great "evil" to keep us in fear so we can waste large sums of money on the "defense" budget.

More from stoncoaus:
"And your answer that racial profiling is wrong because it is racist doesn't solve the problem."

What problem are you talking about? Terrorism? Timothy McVeigh wasn't Arabic, so how would racial profiling help keep him from committing an act of terrorism? Same with Jose Padilla. Racial profiling won't "solve" anything. Ending US imperialism could do wonders, however.

Finally, from stoncoaus:
"...the majority of terrorist threat we face now is from Muslim extremists."

Please give your source for this assertion. Thank you.

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"Finally, from stoncoaus:
"...the majority of terrorist threat we face now is from Muslim extremists."
From the fact that hey are the group with the largest number of people who claim to want to kill others who don't agree with them. It is quite obvious. Media, Journalism, Documentaries, Authors, etc.

stoncoaus wrote:
"I have a pretty good general idea of what Islam is supposed to be about. I know it is a religion of peace."

-You could have "learned" that listening to Rush Limabaugh. Besides, is there a religion out there that DOESN'T claim to be peaceful? I doubt if you are able to, but can you please expand on your "gretty good general idea of what Islam is supposed to be," please?

I have "learned" this from Muslims that I know as well ask listening to Muslims that speak out in the media. I have not studied the Koran and I don't intend to.

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stoncoaus wrote:
"From the fact that hey are the group with the largest number of people who claim to want to kill others who don't agree with them."

This is only a "fact" if you have a way to back it up. Using numbers. With citations. You have not done this. You have given no sources or numbers. You are just making assumptions based upon opinions. In case you're not aware, opinions are NOT facts.

more:
"I have "learned" this from Muslims that I know as well ask listening to Muslims that speak out in the media."

Generally, one "learns" of things from study, which usually includes reading. What you have "learned" is a tiny piece of the picture.

lastly:
"I have not studied the Koran and I don't intend to."

Then I would suggest you stop pretending you have a "pretty good general idea of what Islam is supposed to be about."

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I think that this whole line of discusson has really gotten off of the subject of what happened to the "Lost Boys." The reality is that the "Boys" were hunted not just because they were not Muslim, but because of their ethnicity.

Much to the contrary of what the vast majority of Americans think, Africa is made up of more than a dozen major ethnic groups, and literally hundreds of sub-groups. This is one of the things that European imperialists exploited to colonize Africa during the 19th and 20th centuries, place various ethnic groups within unnatural political boundaries, and pit them against eachother to maintain power over them--and still continue to do so, though not physically, certainly economically.

The nation of Sudan is Africa's largest, containing many, many ethnic groups of Saharan and sub-Saharan varieties. What does this mean? It is like putting New Yorkers and Texans in the same room, give them only a limited amount of beer, chips and dip, and see how long the party lasts before a fight breaks out. Bad analogy, I know, but the important this is that they are very different people, with very different ways of life, who were forced to share a common national government when England and France slapped together the political boundaries of Africa. The government is controlled by those from the northern--Saharan--section of the country, which happens to have a majority Muslim population. In the southern section of the country, there are resources that the government wants to tap, specifically to benefit the northern section. However, those in the south, who happen to be mostly non-Muslim (Christian, Animalist, and various other religious variances) do not want to give up their resources. That is why there was and still is war in Sudan. That is, in fact the reason for most of the wars fought in Africa over the past 40 years. When European imperial power collapsed after World War II and African nations gained their independence, they foolishly retained their colonial boundaries. The inter-tribal hatred, struggle for resources, and various other factors have caused hundreds of thousands to lose their lives, and millions to lose their homes. I propose that rather than blaming the religion of Islam for what has happened and is happening in Sudan and other places in Africa, we should blame ourselves, first for having colonized and exploited Africa, second for having not allowed even the smallest degree of self-government during colonial days, and third for continuing to exploit Africa by cutting economic deals with dictators in order to obtain cut rate raw materials. Don't just blame hatred, blame greed. They both have just as much power to motivate, and just as much capacity to cause harm.

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korneech03 wrote:
"I think that this whole line of discusson has really gotten off of the subject of what happened to the "Lost Boys." The reality is that the "Boys" were hunted not just because they were not Muslim, but because of their ethnicity."

I haven't seen this movie yet (though I just got tickets to a showing next Tuesday), so I don't have any first-hand knowledge of the story - yet. The reason I posted was to try to counter the myopic bigotry that stoncoaus wrote.

also:
"I propose that rather than blaming the religion of Islam for what has happened and is happening in Sudan and other places in Africa, we should blame ourselves, first for having colonized and exploited Africa, second for having not allowed even the smallest degree of self-government during colonial days, and third for continuing to exploit Africa by cutting economic deals with dictators in order to obtain cut rate raw materials. Don't just blame hatred, blame greed. They both have just as much power to motivate, and just as much capacity to cause harm."

I concur. It was the MAL-development/colonization of the nations of Africa (as well as the current imperialism) that led to much of the trouble we see there.

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Thank you korneech03 for bringing this discussion back to the movie that it should be about, and giving proper context for the conflict in Sudan. People tend to not want to really understand things fully, but rather reduce them to an easily understandable simple dichotomy. The conflicts in Sudan (as well as Iraq, Israel/Palestine and elsewhere) can be viewed as just one religious group fighting another, but are really complex struggles over control of resources and invlove long histories of exploitation, oppresion and external influence. The same goes for the terrorists, who in the words of our fearless and clueless leader "hate us because of our freedom". While some very extreme hateful people might want to exterminate a whole group (and I have heard many Euro-Americans talk about "bombing the sh*t out of the whole Muslim world"), most of the people who are anti-Western are that way because of the history of exploitation commited by Western societies.

As for the racial profiling, I am completely against it for many reasons - too many to fully get into here - and I think it ends up creating far more problems than it might solve. I think profiling can show more ignorance and hatred then the poeple who have commited the acts that sparked the profiling.

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Commiett wrote:
"In comparison to what? Hitler wasn't a Muslim; nor Pol Pot, or any of the other genocidal maniacs of the last few centuries." Attaturk, the Taliban,
The Sudanese gov't, Idi Amin. All muslim, all genocidal maniacs. You want me to go on? I can, ad nauseum. Methinks that you, like most neo-marxists, have bought a bill of goods.

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"Islam does not breed hatred! That is a small percentage of extremists. There is something wrong with racial profiling, because it is racist! Not all Muslims are terrorist and not all terrorists are Muslim. Maybe you should pick up a book on Islam rather than buy into what you see on TV."

lol, Islam is not a race, so you cant be "racist" towards islam, lmao...

Yes "small" minority that seems to persecute and murder non muslims all through Africa, the middle east, asia etc. And have well over 100 terrorist acts throughout the world just in the last 5 years...

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You see what is presented by a non-Muslim culture on Islam, thus you have no right to claim you know what Islam is. I am a Muslim, come from a Muslim family and culture (Pakistan) and I am an American also, having lived virtually my entire life here in the U.S. I have lived Islam, and I have practiced it daily for most of my mature life. Thus, I think I can say I know something about it. My religion has taught me respect for life, respect for nature and the environment around us, respect for my elders - Muslim or not, respect for my neighbors - Muslim or not, and mostly, respect for attaining to knowledge. Islamic culture is about science and knowledge, among other things, and many breakthroughs in science occured during the Middle Ages in the Muslim world, while Europe was in the Dark Ages.

Muslims are never presented with any humanity in the Western media today. We have no face except as an anachronistic, "barbaric" religion. Thus, you, like many in the West, are pretty ignorant about Islam, its history and what it's really about. You see planes or people blowing up all the time and you think that's all Islam. Maybe you could be excused, but being ignorant is never an excuse.

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Commiet- I do not have to provide facts and figures and citations to share my opinion. I am not here to write a scientific journal. I do not need to restructure my posts in a way that is more acceptable to yourself or anyone else if I wish to share my opinion. One does not have to read and study a subject to learn something about it. How did you learn that murder was bad or how to speak for that matter? Some knowledge is simply aquired through one's life experiences. I never claimed to be the final authority.

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stoncoaus wrote:

"I do not have to provide facts and figures and citations to share my opinion."

I agree - everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, in the future can you please try not to confuse "opinion" with "fact"?

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I'm not confused buddy. I'll try illustrate my opinions as that only.

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Stonecoaus asks questions and speaks opinons without anger or hatred in his voice. His letters aren't written to bully other readers. He has more credibility from that standoint than the others.

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Thank you very much for recognizing that. All I wanted was to have a discussion and state my opinions. I appreciate you acknowledging that.

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Okay, this board got a little agressive so I never read everything, but just in case no one pointed this out:

Islam is one of the major world religions, so many people practice it and many of those people are in more corrupt countries such as Sudan. Look through a geography book, some of the countries that have Islam as there official religion are corrupt, and have been for a long time, but I doubt it's because of their religion. As far as I can tell it's government, not religion that's causing these problems.

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Islam was born in hatred. It is as much an ideology of hate as any other ideology arising out of perceived oppression and exploited by devious men. The first action by Mohamed's followers was to butcher, rape, and butcher and rape again over and over again for the last 1300 years. Either be as we are or submit to the sword. Or if we need workers be dhimmis aka slaves.

It's simple enough if you read the Koran. It's all written there in black and white. As devilishly crystal clear as anything in the Mao's little red boo

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I've read the Qur'an, and your ignorance is overwhelming. Didn't know Mao had a little red boo.

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Read Tasleema Nasreen to know why Islam is a *beep* religion!

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Yeah, because she says everything the modern-day Crusaders want to hear. Read any critic of any religion, if you want to hear bashing. Her story is not any more valid than the millions of Muslims who live in peace. Islam became the fastest growing / most sought out religion in America after 9/11 - people want to really know about it, and not just from its detractors.

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[deleted]

hey....crusades, pogroms, and slughter of european jews....i guess the christians are blameless.

M

read a history book

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and lets not forgot the catholic priests that like to sodomize little boys for sport.
The Vatican have been covering up their paedos for centuries.

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[deleted]

stoncoaus:
"That they keep searching 90 year old women instead of focusing on the most likely suspects?" Well, who says that they are doing that? In the airports or whatever, I am sure that no one is questioning the old lady. Race profiling isn't just officially allowed, but I can bet you, if something happens on an airport, the middle-eastern people are the ones being interrogated first. Btw, be please to clarify what you mean by "racial profiling", in what capacity etc?

"but the majority of terrorist threat we face now is from Muslim extremists" And what does that tell you? Cause USA is targeting middle eastern countries at this moment, thus they are rebelling against that. And thus, they are so perfectly called: terrorists. Decades ago, it was the russians, japanese/chinese etc. etc. You have to think what is a terrorist, anyone that fights the western countries are automatically terrorists? Are you seeing it only with one view or two? If you were on the other side, you would undoubtedly ask yourself: "why does the American way breed so much hatred?". It's all in the eye of the beholder of a different foreign nation . It is so easy to brand someone "terrorist" and feel everything is alright with the world, to make yourself feel like the good guy. But how would you feel if your country was invaded by another, wouldn't you fight against it? If so, you are deemed a terrorist, as simple as that. Not that I am condoning these actions, but from subsequent reports has all showed that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or "weapons of mass destruction" (God, I hate that word), even Bush admitted it! So Iraq is being invaded (good intentions or not, that is what is happening) without being at fault for what they were accused of, which prompted the invasion (hey, how they live their life is their choice, and yeah, not everyone is happy with it, but apparently "helping" them didn't do so much good either, did it now?)

And Islam is now described as "breeding hatred" and "terrorism", but look at other religions' pasts, equally brutal, insane and evil, religion's influence on people will never change, so it is all about politics and who shapes and controls is, has nothing to do with anything or anyone specific (in your opinion: Islam). And there are degrees of "hatred" I must say, what is happening in Middle East is because they are dealing with a sensitive and violent situation, in USA and places like that, people haven't had the need to go to extremes as the Iraqies (for example), but there is that seed (as it is in all of us).

goodbyelancashire: "If Clinton sent troops to Iraq he would be hailed a liberator..Bush does it and he's an Imperialist with corporate ties." Well, if you and staff members of your government has ties to the same corporations that you are paying to make weapons and what not, in any other kind of place, that would be deemed "conflict of interest", and you would be let go and face a public hanging, so why do you think in SUCH a important seat as a government leader, would you be let go of such a scandal/punishment/explaining yourself? Are you expecting people to JUST trust you? Are you even earning of that trust? And Bush's reason for going in there: "there are WMDs in Iraq", has been long been exposed as a BIG FAT lie, even he has admitted to this, but he blamed it on "bad intelligence info", right! So yeah, it is a BIG difference and with REASON to treat Clinton and Bush same decision not as equally.

"We should send our troops to die in Darfur,because that would be right,but switch to the Middle East and it's all about oil." Well, the Middle East has a lot of oil, Darfur - not so much, why are people's suspicions about that so hard to understand (even if it wasn't about oil, they happen to attack a country that has tons of it, which the US is in desperate need of, just a unfortunate suspicious coincidence)? What is there to raise eyebrows about, people are usually so good-hearted that we shouldn't even think such awful thoughts? It would be like: if a murder had happened, 2 male suspects, do you look at the guy who had incentive or the guy without? Besides, going in to Iraq was "sensitive" and controversial (many more was against it, than for it, as it appeared with me)long before plans were even made. Iraq had many rightful doubts and concerns. Going in to places like Darfur that are being "cleansed", the majority has supported it from the beginning. Going to Iraq was never supported to begin with, however going into Darfur was/is, so surprise surprise that people opposed the decision they were against from the beginning

"But let me guess,behind the whole mess is an evil white oil guy in a suit" Well, when you have money and profit involved, greed is such a close relative, so it is perfectly natural to look at it with suspicious eyes and as you should. People being corrupted by greed is not a new phenomenon.

"Radical Islam is a real problem..it's not representative of Islam as a whole and I know this..I'm a Christian and I'm know hideous groups of people who fly the Christian banner and are in no way as such." Insightful man, true, there are people who present themselves as christian and make followers of Christianity look bad, sometimes we do forget that there are still sane followers of a religion, Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc.

"They preach against "hate" and censorship..yet if you are white,Christian,Conservative,Southerner,a supporter of the military,American,or any of these combinations you are to be silent.Why?? Isn't that being INTOLERANT??" Very true, I applaud you my friend.

"I realize Americans aren't perfect but by and large we are a good-hearted people and like most of the human race,I would bet,very interested in making the world a better place." Hmm, but the thing is that there are such a big portions of Americans representing your entire country, and you do get a lot of "America is the greatest country in the world" attitude and mentality, that is sickening to a lot of people. Most Americans here even on Imdb act and talk like they are the only country in the world with free speech and what not. True, no excuse to condemn the entire country for being ignorant, but there is undoubtedly that "typical" American mentality that is so pervasive in US culture, as you said yourself: you're not even allowed to talk, when you have the right to it and which is the stone pillar of USA, a free country, is about.


~It's better to burn out than to fade away~

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Its called the ripple effect.

Once upon a time some 800 years ago there once laid the most powerful Empire in the entire world only rivaling to China. The name of this Empire was The Ottoman Empire. They were more educated than any European country and they were far more advanced technologically as well as economically. It was said that their civilization was so advanced that if you were to leave a purse on the ground that it would be there the very next day. Thievery was not known to the Ottomans. Aside from being more advanced they also had a high toleration to other Religions. If you were a Christian or a Jew you only had to pay a low tax and you could live in peace with everyone. Meanwhile on the European side. If you were a Jew or a Muslim you were slaughtered, persecuted and executed by Christians. So in part Muslims at one point in time had a high toleration for Christians and Jews. Now we fast forward it a bit to the 1600s. Columbus had discovered America for the European nations, The Dutch were gaining more and more power through the East India Company, Louis XIV had started a war with Spain that was draining the Dutch Economically and most of the European nations were seeking more expansion and means to keep up with the other surrounding nations. However many Ottomans felt they were straying away from the Qur'ān and their beliefs. So a mighty society at one time started to regress instead of expand and evolve. They were not the only ones tho China was also regressing. China believed they were the center of the Universe and that they had everything they needed right there. As Europe expanded and colonized the Americas the Ottomans faild to keep up millitarily. Now we speed up the time to 1776, America was now an independent Nation and many French who faught with the Americans in the Revolutionary war came home with a new found love for Revolution. It wasn’t to long after before the French started their own Revolution and a man named Napolean came into power. During his reing Napolean had sold the Louisiana purchase to the Americans defeated the Ottomans at Egypt and lost a half a million people to the invation of Russia. Durring this time the Ottomans became weaker and weaker and refused to use any advancements that the Europeans had during warfare. Also because of lack of expantion and trade the Ottomans were getting weaker Economicly while the Europeans where getting stronger. The Ottomans lack of income had resulted to plundering ships from European countries as well as holding the captives for ransom. Also the Current Parsha of Tripoli Yussif Karamanli exiled his Brother Hammet and the Ottoman empire continued to loose its foothold in Northern parts of Africa. In 1805 America was getting annoyed of the constant overseas skirmishes braught on by the Barbary Pirates and finally invaded North Africa. A man named General William Eaton led a collalition of a few US Marines, Greek and a lot of hired Mercenaries to invade Tripoli and over throw Yussif Karamanli and replace him with his brother Hammet. In the end the US was succesfull in stopping the Barbary Pirates but stopped just short of the shores of Tripoli. Congress had oredered General Eaton and his men to evacuate. By doing so the US left all the mercenaries to die including Hammet and his followers. Hammet was once again exiled to Egypt where he died 3 years later. Because of this a deep hatred was left for America. The US finally put a stop to the Barbary pirates in 1815, shortly after the war of 1812. Exactly 99 years later 1914. War breaks out in Europe and a World War was started. England was trying to find more troops for the war like Russia was trying to find more guns. England then turn to the Jewish populas and offer them a home to call their own if they help England with the war effort. It was 1918, the war was finaly over and the Ottoman empire was no more. America had sealed off its borders with imigrants and Russia had collapsed to a new Radical form of Government. Which left England to uphold their end of the bargain and give the Jewish people a home to call their own. Palistine. The problem was there were people already living in Palistine, mostly Muslims. And since then there has been a huge unrest between the Jewish and Muslim people. It also doesn’t help that many of these people hold long hard grudges. So if you ever wanted to know where the hatred came from and where did it all start. Now you know and you heard it hear first.

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ajwrighter, good post, but would you mind dividing it in sections/paragraphs? Not to sound rude or anything like that, it is just hard to read text that is so jumbled up like that, it needs some space. It would be a shame to let a post like that go unread :).


~It's better to burn out than to fade away~

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It is not a religion of peace, first look at its origins and how it was formed, that was far from peaceful, since propghet(lol, proghet) muhammad died, their was in fighting in islam between the sunni and shiite, so violence has been the name of the game for islam.


Islam today in the middle east, africa and asia, and its expanding toward secularized muslims in the west, breads hatred that leads to vioelence, why, not sure, you would have to ask them but I do find it funny that everyone says its only a small minority, when the heart of Islam, the middle east, is on of the most racist places in the world, the hatred towards jews, is appalling, I mean a majority in the middle east think 9-11 was done by the jews, lol...

your observations are correct, anyone with half a brain can see their is something not right with Islam, and religion in general but Islam especially. And shame on any so called atheist who come out in defense of such a stupid and backward religion as is islam...

ps. I was going to add that the violence can be see also against "not muslim enough, muslims" as was the case in algeria, where hundreds of thousands of Algerina muslims where slaughtered by other muslims.

Oh and look at the raction over some "offensive cartoons" that should give you an indication of what kind of irrationality we are dealing with...

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[deleted]

It has nothing to do with Islam, you should know the story behind that war before coming up with your stupid "they hate us for our freedoms" crap

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Apparently the OP has never heard of the Crusades.

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I have heard of them asswipe. That was a very long time ago and that situation doesn't really pertain to my safety as much as the current situation. Obviously the crusades were bad but it has little bearing on life right now.

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I'm sorry. At what point does killing millions of people for your religion stop being significant? Is it time we forgot about the holocaust as well? I think the lesson to be learned from the Crusades is that organized religion brings out the worst in people and can lead to the slaughtering of a million people. Consider though that the population of Europe was likely between 15 and 30 million people. That's more slaughtering than the Germans did to the Jews during the holocaust.

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Damn it that's ****ing obvious. Quit trying to argue with a point that I haven't made. The crusades were awful and so was the holocaust. We don't need to forget about anything, but as I already said, they don't have a lot of bearing on what is going on right now, which was what my point was. I agree that organized religion has caused a TON of deaths throughout history. There is a lesson to be learned.

Someone replied to my original post with "obviously this guy hasn't ever heard of the crusades" and I said that has no effect on the subject I was talking about, which is that Radical Islam is the biggest terrorist threat we face today, and it's *beep* that we aren't supposed to talk about it. Try arguing with someone that disagrees with you!

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>>I'm sorry. At what point does killing millions of people for your religion stop being significant?<<



Since you're the one spouting off Islamic Apologism, why don't YOU tell US?

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