wicca aka witchcraft - Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged Discussion

[–] CWCampbell 20 years ago

No.
They did NOT do any homework.
At least not any on Witchcraft.
Unless of course you count the Chick Tracts.
I wouldn't.
Chick Tracts are so full of misinformation and flat out lies that if
Mr. Jack Chick told me the sun was out at noon I would have to look out a window to make sure.

Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject -- otherwise there's no need for faith.

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[–] padraic_macuidhir 20 years ago

It is extremely pleasing to finally find a sensible person on IMDB.com.

You are correct in your definition of Witchcraft. It seems to me that
99 percent of folk equate it with Wicca, which offends me, even
though I am a Heithinn, not one of the other two.

Thank you for placing your comment here. Hopefully others
will read it. Every bit of good information on the Internet helps.

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[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lizsgear 19 years ago

I agree. As long as the books are being loved it is fine. The witches in it are basically like normal people using magic for everything. Sure there might be a satan like evil "voldermort" in the stories but j.k.rowling is definatly not making him out to be correct, therefore christians who crytisize the books don't know what they're talking about and probably haven't even read the books.

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[–] keshayra 19 years ago

I like to note that Voldemort is what is traditionally known as a Warlock...

And I also like to mention that witches can be both male and female!

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[–] Elswet 18 years ago

No no no! Warlock literally translates to "oath breaker," and anyone who calls a male witch a warlock is insulting him!

The word warlock was used not as a term of endearment, but rather as a slur.

A male witch is still a witch.

the Fiend :.
-•-•-•-
http://fiendishdramaturgy.elswet.com

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[–] andrewxc 19 years ago

Which "branch" of witchcraft was created in the 1970's by Californian college kids on acid? I don't like that one. At least something like traditional Q'abala makes sense of nature and respecting the world that created you. I spent the entire summer performing meditation and becoming "one with nature." It happens when you work at a summer camp, whether you mean to or not.
I found the beliefs fascinating, despite the fact that I can't personally believe them. But it kept a bunch of ADD camp staff focused for such a long time because they felt that they were improving their lives.
I think that Christians could learn a thing or two about respecting nature. Look at the biggest role model today...

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[–] Elswet 19 years ago

Look at the biggest role model today...

Yoda? *LMAO* J/K.

To the guy who asked, just click the "BUY IT" link on the "movie's" main info page. Amazon.com will be happy to hook you up. I got a copy free from the local video store. They were looking to "put the word out" about Harry Potter. *rolls my eyes* Morons.

the Fiend :.
-•-•-•
http://dramaturgy.proboards45.com

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[–] zriseon3 19 years ago

Okay, I am a Christian and I love Harry Potter. Not to mention that I spend most of my time outdoors. I go on hikes and find a comfortable spot and meditate. I respect everything God created and find that when I am one with nature I am closer to Him. So, please when you say Christians should do this or that you are making it sound like we are all the same. We are definitely not. My church is against Harry Potter and I find that their whole views of witchcraft is a bit harsh. I practice my religion the way I choose, and I respect those whose beliefs are different. It's not my job to judge others. If I choose not to live a certain way then it is my choice and the same goes for anyone else. I am not saying that Christians aren't hypocrits, we all are, even non-Christians. It's part of what makes us human. So maybe instead of shaking our fists at one another why doesn't everyone just accept each other and respect one another.

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[–] Hayley_Nevada 19 years ago

I am a wiccan and respect everyone whose beliefs are different, I was really offended when I found out about this documentary, I got so mad, I sent them an email, but they never mailed me back, (a site), It is sadly to say that it is the fault of some christians that wiccans are now misunderstood and hated so much by many people, it is a pity so many people judge before they learn and understand, it is an offense to all wiccans, whose religion is very free, accepting and peaceful. When I tell someone that I'm a witch they immediately think about fairytales and bad dreams about evil sorcerers that worship satan, and they get most of the time scared of me, or they tell me I'm a fool and I'm crazy, we would like to be accepted and respected by others, but the church has delayed this for us.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] kitha22 19 years ago

Wizardry is adored when you are talking about Merlin...Fantasy books are well tolerated...R.L. Stine books are welcome on children's shelves as well as Christopher Pike Spooksville books. The supernatural has always been very prevalent in all societies. All this "witch-hunt" with Harry Potter has images of Puritans and young women being burned at the stake falsely accused of witchcraft dancing in my head. Burning people for witchcraft back then wasn't any more effective than it is today. Every story has a villan, and a good guy. Every religious story has this. Every fantasy story has it and even true stories all have something to overcome. The usage of magic in the human mind is only a desire to be more than you are. To achieve something more than you have. It's not a satanic rite. Now, I understand if you are trying to call up the dead for evil purposes, you're stretching things a bit far. But to watch and to read a story? That's pretty benign. Better not listen to any Native American stories. Oh yeah, keep away from that darned Ulysses and his boat of guys that get attacked by gods and all kinds of pesky magical creatures. Be sure to get rid of Dante and his 7 circles of Hell. And while you're at it, ditch the Bible too. They talk all about witchcraft and evil people. Lots of killing and rape and pillaging in there too. Really dangerous on young minds. Don't want any of THAT getting in there. If people are gonna attack something, attack something truly hurtful. I dunno, like porn or violence or whatever. As a psychology student, I am interested to see a strong tie between Voldemort and Hitler. Both were what they hated, half breeds. Both gathered people to them to police and force people around them to join them or die. Both came to great power over a time of patience and waiting and whispering to their fellow man that things should be more "pure". I wonder....should we learn about Hitler? Should we forget that he did horrible things to people? Will it warp our young minds to think about him? I'm thinking no. The underlying story is what sticks out the most. The story might be fake, but the feelings that are portrayed are very real. I like that it's done in such a fashion that it's not some gritty nudity filled movie/book. She manages to show a full array of youthful feelings...without stripping a single one of them. So, you guys that are determined to tear down something worthwhile and ignore the truly damaging things in society, God be with you, you'll need Him. He's going to judge you more harshly than others. For all your stomping around and trying to convince people this benign thing is so evil, you haven't accomplished much except wasting time where you could be making a difference. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Keep it up. And just in case you're wondering, yep, I'm a Christian through and through. ;)

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] XtroTerrestial 19 years ago

I think that the makers of this quote-unquote "video" obviously never heard of "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".

I am Catholic and I am even outraged to see people having such a narrow minded view on such things as literature. That's called "Intolerance".

A majority of the books I've read and/or own would probably be blacklisted by the makers of this video too.

What's next?

Lord of the Rings?
Isaac Asimov?
John Grissom?

oh brother..............

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[–] maffucci_mh 18 years ago

Very appropriate question to ask. Frankly, I'm very much surprised that The Lord of the Rings trilogy hasn't been absolutely lambasted by every Christian sect in existence. It was, afterall, the second most widely read book during the twentieth century, right behind the bible. I guess they figured that people wouldn't be swayed by something that couldn't possibly have happened on this planet at any time during recorded history.

Unfortunately, knee-jerk radicalism is all too often the response to an unknown problem. I've related the dilema to dogs barking. That is; dog one barks at someone invading it's territory, dog two barks because Dog one is in a tither over the invasion and lends it's voice to the moment, dog three hears the commotion and feels it prudent to raise the alarm even though no danger is presented. On and on it escalates(or deteriorates) until poor dog 12 or 15(or your dog) starts barking because the others are with no real idea about what's happening to cause the barking in the first place. Perhaps a bit over simplified, but I assure you that it holds true.

These groups should stick to reviling things that should be reviled. Like children's shows that exhort the commission of violence as a means to solving problems. Specific case in point, the Power Rangers. When at their height I recall numerous articles from across the country that reported child on child violence after viewing the Power Rangers. I've yet to hear of any child, teen or adult that used some 'Harry' incantation to do harm, or good, to any other soul.

What any sane and responsible group, religious or otherwise, needs to look at is what the story ultimately teaches. In the case of 'Harry', LOTR, and the Bible the stories teach that good can and will triumph over evil only if one is courageous enough to take a stand in the first place(again oversimplified but true). Everything else, really, is secondary.

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[–] shmul 18 years ago

LOTR doesn't have much magic in it

it's more based on reality

and the war against evil is more emphasized there than in HP books

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[–] blackassailant 18 years ago

Uh . . . yeah, there's magic in LOTR. What do you call all of those bright light-flashes that Gandalf throws out? Or the shockwaves that Sauron blasted out? The Baelrog (its a friggin demon, for crying out loud)? The Ents (talking, walking trees)? Immortal Elves? The Ring-Wraiths? The dragon mounts the Ring-Wraiths rided? A door that accepts a voice-inputed password, with no computer systems or guards present (the door to the Mines of Moria)? The invisibility granted to non-mages by the One Ring, and the supposed super-powers that it should grant a mage? That sword, Sting, that glows when orcs, or other creatures with orc blood like Uruk-Hai (sp?), are near? The ghosts that Aragorn fought (using a magic sword) & then commanded? Sauron's spirit sticking around as a big, flaming eyeball, due to a connection to a material object (the One Ring)? The Palantiri? I might be missing a few instances, but you get the idea. There is magic in LOTR. Maybe not portrayed quite as kid-friendly as in HP, but its there. Granted, some (Ents) may somehow be possible, scientifically. But not all.

LOTR != based on reality (for those who don't know, != is does not equal)
Way to many fantastical things that couldn't happen in real life.

I've heard that supposedly one reason that some "christians" support LOTR and blast HP is they over-analyse LOTR and say that Sam being there to support Frodo and not giving up on him etc is supposed to be like Jesus or something.

HP not emphasizing a war against evil? In the more recent books, that's been the focus, beyond any doubt. In the first few, they were still introducing characters, and chose to just go with some minor (relatively to what was coming) challenges to overcome for some fleshing out of personality and giving some time for character/world development. So, maybe not in the first few, maybe. But now they're in full-fledged war mode. (I haven't yet read the 6th book. My sister has it, but I haven't read past the first chapter or two; I'm going to reread the series and read HP 6 during winter break)

As for the rest of the debate . . .
I agree with the whole Wiccan/witch thing. People really need to do their homework; bare minimum, read what you're gonna bash. I've looked at some Wicca/witchcraft material online, mostly out of curiosity (not even related to HP, even).
Selective censorship breeds into the destruction of intellectual freedom. Either be against it all, say you're against only the individual portrayal because of the way it is individually portrayed up front, or respect other's opinions at least.
I honestly believe that parents should let their children explore and learn, and come up with their own conclusions. A parents job is to protect them from making major mistakes (the kind that ruin lives, such as teen pregnancies or getting in jail), and make sure that they understand why those mistakes are bad. Not to force them into a belief set; put up warning signs where appropriate, and show them what you believe if you must.

Me, I'm christian. However, I've kinda been turning against "big C" (the Church, as in the large-scale organized entity; "little c", the church, as in a community-level organized religious group, I'm OK with). This is no fault of HP.

This whole "BURN HP!!" thing reminds me of the song Witch Hunt, by Petra:

Everybody look there's a new bandwagon in town
Hop on board and let the wind carry you around
Seems like there's not enough to keep us busy till the Lord comes back
Don Quixote's gotta have another windmill to attack

(Chorus)
Another witch hunt looking for evil wherever we can find it
Off on a tangent, hope the Lord won't mind it
Another witch hunt, takin' a break from all our gospel labor
On a crusade but we forgot our saber

There's a new way to spend all our energies
We're up in arms instead of down on our knees
Walkin' over dollars trying to find another dime
Never mind the souls 'cause we really haven't got the time

So send out the dogs and tally ho
Before we sleep tonight we've got miles to go
No one is safe, no stone's left unturned
And we won't stop until somebody gets burned
Bro Bro Bro Bro Bro Bro Brothers

(If you want to hear it link: http://www.jeffsstargatemusicvideos.com/media/witch.wmv ; its missing the last part, but its got the rest; its a music video someone made based off of Stargate SG-1, specifically the episode Demons)

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[–] Jai_kross 18 years ago

People will be stupid when they see somthing, hear the word "witch" or "magic"
and do what theyve done for thousands of years... force people to beleave what they beleve... the difference is they cant kill you for not beleaving now, unlike the inquistion.

From Jerry Falwell saying Tinkywinky was gay to Dungons and Dragons being a pathway to Hell to Harry Potter being satans right hand man. there will always be documenteries and propoganda

it will always be do as i say not as i do or god will *beep* spank you

and its us talking about it here and buying the video and talking about it is giving them power

just ignore them.............and if no one is left to listen they will eventually shut up

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[–] jessi-rae 18 years ago

*nods*

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[–] kitha22 17 years ago

From what I understand, they are trying to ban LOTR from schools and public libraries. Among a whole slew of other good books. Even the woman that did the poem at Bill Clinton's inagural thing. (can't remember her name) They did ban Madeline L'Ingle's A Wrinkle In Time, and now it wears a seal of approval. I'm not sure who does banning but I know when I was a kid there was a book in the school library that was near porn and the librarian went to great lengths to preserve this book (makes me wonder if she just kept it for herself)but when it comes to Madeline L' Ingle they ban that? Just who is in charge of this banning that's going around anyway?? Who died and made them God? Especially considering what they find offensive and not offensive. Eeesh!

Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

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[–] burnumall 17 years ago

If a sufficient number of people write in to complain, then a book goes onto a banned list, if a really huge number of people start complaining then its banned from some public library's and possibly a few schools. A successfully banned book often winds up on a best sellers list not long after that. Its pretty much just really good ,free advertising and nabs the author alot of bonus points.

True story, the FCC, (Federal Communications Commission), an executive body answerable only to the president, and with powers to ban ,fine or alter any public media, was created in 1934 after a radio show used the word "Piss" and a man wrote in to complain. Of course with cable and the internet they are now as relevant and visionary as the former soviet union, but still, for about seventy years they were the king tacos of TV and radio.

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[–] kitha22 17 years ago

Maybe I should finish writing a book and start a letter campaign to have it banned from all libraries. I could make some serious money.

Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

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[–] scorpio9 17 years ago

How to protest a book
As a librarian I have a few insights on that - we have a form that the person or persons who feel the book is objectionable must fill out. They have to state using specific examples what they object to. That why I find it strange they keep letting that woman in Georgia go after Harry... she didn't even finish the book. I haven't had anyone fill out the form. I have read a few that raised objections. One about Werewolves because the mother said it told how to become a werewolf. NOT- the story really said there was no such thing, just people who had consumed a plant that made them believe they were one. That little boy was just put on a selective reading list. WHICH is the best way to handle it. You don't want YOUR child reading something contact the school and they will not let HIM check out certain items, but other children are free to read it. The worse one I've had to read was a Sweet Valley High where a young lady was getting seduce by someone who appear to be a vampire. That one got moved to the back room. I haven't finished reading it yet. I don't get the Guinness book anymore because I got a lot of calls about those pictures. Plus the kids could never behave when looking at it. Then there's In the Night Kitchen where I'm seriously thinking about censoring it because the children turn to giggles when the little boy starts floating around naked. A LOT of librarian have drawn underpants on that boy.
Harry Potter (LOTR isn't age appropriate for my group- K-5), Eragon, Dragon Rider, the new series by Angie Sage (which has more realistic magic in it that HP), and the Spiderwick chronicles are (I've read them.) great works of fantasy fiction that make children want to read and I will fight for them when necessary.
Students asked me all the time... What's a good book? Answer: One that you can't put down until you've finished. All of the above fall into that catagory.

"When in doubt, look to the books." PAGEMASTER

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[–] kitha22 15 years ago

Hahaha I can see it now...I'm going to write a book, get it put in the local library and then fill out a form to have it banned and watch the money roll in. YES!! The true secret to success and money!

Because you can't have a scary movie if you leave the shower curtain open!

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] hengaki 17 years ago

thank u for speaking up for the wiccans .. im catholic married to a wicca and since i ve learned about the religion it jsut makes me so made house christian extreamist persicute them right now to hate someone or somthing and not even know what its about or care what they stand for

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