MovieChat Forums > Hell House (2002) Discussion > So, let me get this straight.... (yeah, ...

So, let me get this straight.... (yeah, I said straight)


A group of self-righteous, bible-thumping, judgmental (thou shalt not judge, anyone?) fundamentalists sit around together and have a few giggles while they come up with new ways to see murders, abortions, rapes etc????

I can not believe parents let their kids see these things....

Jesus, “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged” (Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37)


"I like to see the stoned Chinese guy." Daron Malakian

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[deleted]

Kids are exposed to sinful behavior on TV all the time. What is so wrong with a church letting children know that they will be forgiven for their sins if they turn themselves over to Jesus?


Because (most) kids don't go out and imitate the violent and irrational things they see on television. Letting a child know if they conform to a religious doctrine is simply a lie, and brainwashing. Children should never be told that something entirely fictional with no evidence is the truth. They aren't capable of critically thinking these things through, and will therefore blindly follow it.

I ask you this, if Christianity is apparently "The Truth", why must Christians resort to indoctrinating people so vulnerable (children, Africans in poverty, etc.)? It just shows how hard it is to believe fairy tales as an educated adult.

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It's a bit like asking a tree to become a duck to prove it exists.


Trees don't threaten to torture you forever if you doubt their existence. Plus, you can see trees.

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You want to believe, therefore you believe. All your justification means nothing because there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any sort of deity.

But about this:

He threatens to push us from his presence and into hell.


If that is your understanding--seriously? Perfectly nice people who try to do good all their lives and he decides to send them to a place of torment?

Since, according to your holy book, he made the rules, then that is his CHOICE. If you want to worship that kind of childish and immature megalomaniac, then go right ahead. But I sure wouldn't. What a jerk! A deity would, you'd think, be better than humans. What a surprise that his behavior is identical to the kind of things humans would think up.

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Just wanted to clarify that I was calling the Christian God a jerk, not you. If he did everything the holy book claims, then he is a jerk of the highest magnitude.

And you are in a position to determine what is and is not "better than human"? Do you live up to the same standards you expect of God?


Yes, I am, and yes, I do. In regard to the first, I can observe behavior, and if it is jealous and vengeful, that is not being better than most humans.

As for the second, i may not always succeed, but I try.

You, for instance, seem very angry with God.


Oh please. This kind of thing is what gets atheists angry. I'm not angry at god because there is no god. I am angry with idiots who believe there is and then create horrifying "Hell Houses" to try and scare the crap out of others over something that doesn't exist.

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For example...?


Really? How about killing babies? Or killing a woman because she turned around? Approving of slavery? Cursing a fig tree for being out of season? Telling women to be silent? Raping virgins?

As presented in the Bible, God is a jerk. That's not even debatable.

Most Christians justify it by "his ways are mysterious" blah blah blah.

And perhaps you don't see the need for the anger or the name calling because you have never been beaten up by a bunch of atheists because you are the "spawn of demons." Enjoy your superiority.

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Could you possibly stay focused? Your tangents on every minor point give me a headache.

Okay, so right now I am asserting that the Christian God, as presented in the bible, is a jerk, and I listed several examples of what is jerk-like behavior.

You asked for chapter and verse--fine. For some of these I assume I don't think I need to provide citation--assuming you've read this book.

"How about killing babies?"

Noah's Ark story. It's in Genesis.

"Or killing a woman because she turned around?"

Lot's wife? Also in Genesis.

"Approving of slavery?"

There are so many references to slavery and the proper way to treat slaves in the Bible it is obvious God thinks it is just fine (he never says, "Hey, maybe owning another human isn't cool") But one example would be when it says, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Ephesians 6:5 (this one has the double bonus of expressing that worshipers of God are supposed to be his slaves)


Cursing a fig tree for being out of season?

Since you know this one--it has nothing to do with Jesus' "sacrifice." This is a guy who gets pissed off that he can't have fruit out of season and curses the tree. Jerk.

Telling women to be silent?

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be silent." 1 Timothy 11-12


Raping virgins?

The story of Lot, once again (it's better to rape virgin girls than have sex with men, if you are a man) but quite a few other places, such as:


"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." Deuteronomy 22:23-24


"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:15-18


Based on the evidence presented I assert that the God of the Christian Bible is a jerk. If you like, you may counter.

I have one other point regarding your post, but I will reply to it separately.

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You're not interested in having a serious discussion--you enjoy picking on little points of minutiae even after I ask for a bit of focus.

For your information, i was called out of town for a family emergency, and when i said i assumed you had read the book, i DID then explain the stories to which i was referring. You though, got all pissy instead of seeing that i DID provide the references.

I'll just respond to one of your points because I'm tired of this. If you can truly and honestly think about it, you'll be on your way to being a rational person.

One has to read them as such and understand that while a lot of it is good, sound advice for all Christians and much of what he wrote can inspire us to continue in our service to God as well as encourage us to avoid sin, it is not God speaking.


I am going to assume you are a good person in your real life. I assume you do not own slaves or rape virgins and then pay off their dads. So what you actually do is go through the Bible and follow ONLY those words that are moral to YOU. Anything that contradicts what a moral person would do is "in context," "omitting a part," "writing to a specific audience," etc. Anything foul or disgusting is not "God speaking."

Don't you see that you ONLY believe from the Bible what seems right to you? If a Christian is a person who follows the Bible, then you are not one.

You are like me--you act morally no matter what a crusty ancient book says.

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Here's my other point. You said:

"Telling women to be silent" for instance, I would guess you're referring to 1 Corinthians? I hope I'm wrong about that, because I'd hate to think you're mistaking Paul for God. I doubt you're stupid enough to make that mistake.


But it is in the Bible, no? I thought the Bible was the word of God. If not, please enlighten me.

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