MovieChat Forums > Morvern Callar (2002) Discussion > Did she really love him?

Did she really love him?


Did she really love him? I didn't read the book so I know that there'll be some things I won't understand but don't try to convince me that she loved her boyfriend. She didn't *SPOILER* inform his family of his passing, the poor guy didn't get a decent burial, she stole his money and took credit for writing his book, honestly...who would want a Morvern as a friend? Was her boyfriend such a horrible person that he deserved this treatment? Was Morvern a horrible person or was she in a prolonged state of shock? While watching a film, we join the character on his/her journey, but I'm afraid I was in a state of shock throughout most of the film while Morvern experienced her journey and the boyfriend lay dead on the floor.

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I know I will get bashed for this post, but here it goes.

I had a friend who committed suicide a year ago. I loved the guy while he was alive. Funny, kind, energetic, his family loved him and he had tonnes of great friends. The day he died I lost so much respect for him. Anyone that commits suicide deserves what the man in the movie gets. It is THE MOST selfish thing you can EVER do! You leave behind a trail of greif and regret.


I know I cannot put myself in their shoes, but there is never enough reason to kill yourself. Never. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

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[deleted]

GardenStateFan,

Interesting thoughts on suicide. Much appreciated. It most certainly is the most selfish thing that one can do.

'Happiness consists in being able to tell the truth without ever hurting anyone.'

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Well, Gardenstatefan Im going to have to say that I disagree completely with this. I've studied suicide some, and seems to mimic the patterns of a disease. It can be comorbid with depression, or it can be triggered by a sudden event. I am not saying that people who are suicidal and go through with it arent responsible for their actions, but that it attacks like a disease and the person is not their real self when they do it. People have been hardwired for survival and it goes against our nature and nurture to do such a thing, especially in Western culture. thus, for someone to commit suicide they would literally be out of their minds, especially if they have a completely different demeanor around others like your friend did. It is common that people do not even recognize signs in people, ad when they die the are shocked. But it's simply not right to say a person deserves what the guy in the movie got. Did you notice any signs? I would encourage people to intervene in their loved ones lives- not to be judgmental but to save them from a moment where they are not thinking clearly. When people are suicidal they arent thinking "selfish" they are thinking "end it now"- and that's all. They need mental help to bring them back to reality.

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I agree. A selfish act that is a way of blaming the survivors.

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Suicide can also be an extreme symptom of mental illness, mismanaged medication, (including some type(s) of self-medication), or some of both combined, or maybe some form of brain injury contributing as well.

Unfortunately, there is (in the USA at least) a form of 'assisted' suicide, termed "suicide by cop". Also unfortunately, it seems there is a very simple way to get a Police Officer to 'end the pain'... get a toy gun and remove the marker indicating it is a toy, wave it around in public and wait for someone to call the Police, and when the Police arrive, point it at them, and move toward them, either before or during the pointing of what appears to be an authentic weapon at them. Whether such an action is deliberate, or the person 'unintentionally'/ignorantly creates such a scenario, the result is most often the same. In at least one case, a screwdriver was enough for an officer to shoot.

There have been recent cases of both Police shootings, and non-shootings when officer(s) do not fire, risking their life in the process. The assassination of two New York Police officers seated in their Police car have certainly caused problems. Enough of that topic.


The thought process of a suicidal person is clearly 'suspect' by the very action they are contemplating, so why would such a person even consider their effect on everyone and anyone around them? That would be rational thought attributed to a person who is clearly not thinking rationally...

An older movie dealing with suicide is NIGHT MOTHER where a daughter seems to have resolved her tendency toward self-harm, has a pleasant evening of helping her mother with ordinary household chores, and "'night Mother" are the final words spoken as she goes to her room, presumably to go to bed, but kills herself in her room instead. That movie matches real cases where a potentially suicidal person reportedly resolved whatever their issue(s) was, and showed what appeared to be calmness and clear thinking, as opposed to their previous turbulent moods and behavior. Unfortunately, the actual end result of that calmness can be an imminent suicide, or a recovery, and that calmness does not predict which will be the result.



Some suicides are very carefully planned, even to the point of pre-determining pretty much who will NOT find their body, and who probably will.
A friend of my parents-in-law had several of her neighbors and my in-laws trusted with a key to her house. Over the period of about ten days, she collected all but one of the keys, including my in-laws' key, who were probably her best friends of over a decade. Each of the people holding a house key had them for years previously, and either called her or received a call from her at least every week, and sometimes more than once a day. My Mother-in-law got concerned on the second day she had not heard from the woman and got no answer when she called, and called her neighbor to check the house... He saw her car in the garage, with all the doors and windows locked. They called around their circle of friends and discovered the house keys had been collected, except the one, and had the Police present when that person opened the door for them to do a "welfare check".
(Yes, Police will do that service when they are asked!) The people involved were expecting some sort of medical issue or a disabling fall, but not suicide, and the woman's death hit them all very hard. The Police did not allow anyone else in the house initially, probably because they were also considering criminal activity as a possibility...
Again, while that degree of planning seems to show clear, rational thinking, the end result was her suicide. It would take many pages to describe that woman's life, and how she came to that ending, so I won't even start. All that would be statement of facts, and not so much her motivation, since she did not leave a suicide note. The Police and medical examiner's investigation determined it was a suicide, not the result of criminal activity, even though she had several very expensive pieces of jewelry and a nearly new Cadillac (seperately) stolen in the preceding months. As far as my in-laws knew, she had never even mentioned suicide...
Those things taken together made her death that much worse on her friends and family... was it really suicide? Was everyone oblivious to signs leading up to suicide? Did she collect the house keys because the jewelry was removed from her house with no sign of forced entry, and she questioned her trust in her friends? Was her relatively recent boyfriend involved in some way, even though he was out of the country when she died? Did the Police and medical examiner do a thorough enough investigation? Those uncertainties hurt for a very long time, with no resolution.

As you can see, as bad as a suicide may be, it can be worse than you imagine.



On a slightly lighter note, (I haven't watched this movie yet, but do have the DVD), isn't the behavior described a lot like something from the cable series SHAMELESS?
In that series, a major plot arc involved how the family buried a deceased (natural causes) elderly family member in the back yard so they could continue receiving her Social Security monthly payments, and how they could deceive the investigator who insisted on meeting the old woman... and how they had to move her remains so a city utility company would not discover her remains, and what was done with the remains.

=========== Edit to add this recent news item ===========

article posted Jan 08, 2015
Hope Ruller Lay Dead For 14 Months While Daughter Lived Upstairs
clickable URL:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/08/hope-ruller_n_6438096.html

SUMMARIZING:
Police received a request from a relative to do a welfare check, and that led to the discovery of her body on Dec. 29, 2014.

The home was shared by the daughter and the daughter's adult son, and the woman was 94 years old. Her body was so decomposed, (dead/decomposing as long as 14 months, but never reported), an autopsy was unable to determine a cause of death. Police are treating the death as "suspicious", and the investigators are looking into the family's finances for a possible connection.



Does that seem at least mildly similar to the SHAMELESS cable TV series I mentioned?
I have been watching a movie about a writer whose books feature serial killers, and during a televised interview that includes another writer, he admits he has never interviewed a real serial killer, an makes a comment that "You don't need to make up anything, because life is so strange."


---> After this true story, the movie story leaving a body for one day seems very plausible.

=== End of edit ===

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I was wondering why she didn't simply call the coroner, but went through all the trouble of dismembering him and disposing of him herself. That was just too unbelievable. Do you think it was out of anger and shock toward him? It didn't make sense to me that anyone would just let the body lie there all night and call no one, even if they were in shock.

"Life's dim window of the soul distorts the heavens from pole to pole..."
-William Blake

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how 'bout authorities would take away the computer with the novel? or at least they'd knew that it wasn't her novel from reading the f"cking note? how 'bout the money the guy had in the bank - 4,000 pounds or so? she wanted it all.

i pity more this girl then her bf. she's a slave.

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I seem to have angered you somehow. (?)

"Life's dim window of the soul distorts the heavens from pole to pole..."
-William Blake

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sorry

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"Was her boyfriend such a horrible person that he deserved this treatment?"


Yes. He killed himself with Morvern right there with him.

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Morvern seemed such a vile selfish person shed probably make death seem a blessed release
you couldnt ever love someone and steal everything of theirs like she did,let alone dismember their body, that is way beyond 'shock' she was just a callous user of those around her

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I disagree with slinky__16 on one point. He didn't kill himself with Morvern right there with him, or he wouldn't have had to leave a suicide note with instructions. She must have come home and found his body.

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[deleted]

I was left wondering what the hell he saw in her. He was a talented writer with a good taste in music, while she was a gormless nobody incapable of empathy. The mismatch couldn't be greater.

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His suicide note specifically said he'd written the novel "for her". She just decided to take that literally. We don't know anything about his family - he may have been entirely estranged from them. I think at first she behaves the way she does from shock, then later decides to take advantage of the situation (not of him, since he no longer exists). She probably also felt he owed her, and I pretty much agree with her.

The key point here is perhaps what would he have wanted her to do? I don't think he would have begrudged her any of it, if he loved her, as he said he did.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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Off topic, but would you name where your 'signature line' comes from?
I have an idea it has been used in many movies and/or books, but I'd rather not name the one movie I have in mind first...


What you seem to be describing is a sociopath. It can be worse than a sociopath (absolutely no regard for others), when combined with narcissism. That person wants everything they want, and doesn't care about how they get "it", and who gets hurt, or how badly, when they do whatever they do to get what they want.


BTW,
The cable show SHAMELESS is built around a family that are at least borderline sociopaths fighting for survival. There is an ocasional glimmer of caring that prevents them from being full-on sociopaths...
I believe this movie precedes that series, but the "movie business" seems to take an idea and make at least two different projects based on one idea.

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Ha! "Shortbus" - which I guess is the one you didn't want to name? Although I suspect it's been used by Justin Bond in other contexts too.

I think you could only define someone as a sociopath with reference to their relationships with living people, not dead ones. Morvern does lie to the publishers, but in general she doesn't behave badly to anyone she meets.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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It seemed like a relationship out of co-dependence then love by the end, it seemed to me.

Morvern throughout the film seemed like a lonely person to me. Her friendship with Lanna seemed more out of not wanting to be alone then both been true friends imo. The way she went around to Lanna's grandmother's house by herself just to spend time with her seemed like the actions of a lonely young woman just wanting company. Also when she's on holiday she never seems to mix with anyone besides the guy she has a one night stand with. Even Lanna seemed to be one of Morvern's boyfriend's one night stands and it wouldn't surprise me if she was only around to be the boyfriend then with Morvern. With her boyfriend, I just can't see love been there when she leaves the body there to rot, cuts it into little pieces and throws it away like rubbish. Plus not telling his family and stealing his work and money, left me cold.

From the little hints we get, their relationship seemed to be pretty tense, with the boyfriend leaving quite a few times and probably sleeping around behind Morvern's back. I'm sure they loved once another once but it seemed like Morvern had fallen out of love with him.

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