MovieChat Forums > Saraband (2004) Discussion > How does this rank up with other bergman...

How does this rank up with other bergman movies?


I am a huge bergman fan, and I've seen the majority of his films. My favorites probably being Cries and whispers, persona, through a glass darkly, and wild strawberries. But I have not seen saraband yet and I was wondering if it is as good as his old stuff or possibly better then a some of his old stuff? Also how does it compare in terms of how depressing it is? Is it about the same as his usual? I don't like it when they are too depressing.

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It's in the same level of most his old stuff. It's very disturbing.

"I don't like it when they are too depressing."

"My favorites probably being Cries and whispers, persona, through a glass darkly,"

If those three aren't too depressing for you, i think you can't watch every single movie not directed by Erich Von Stroheim without fear.

-What would you like to have been?
-Everything you hate

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Saraband is slightly below the average Bergman IMO, but it's still an excellent movie.
It's quite depressing, some scenes are really harrowing, but it's still nowhere near Cries and Whispers in that respect, so you should be OK.

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i couldn't rank his films persay, though if I had a gun to my head I'd say it's in my top 10 fav's (and I've seen 20 of his films)

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Saraband reminds me somewhat of Autumn Sonata in its working of themes, so if you like that one, you may like Saraband. It is not in the same category as the genius works Through a Glass Darkly, The Silence, Persona or The Passion of Anna. One thing a little disappointing is the technical side. Sven Nykvist is not the cinematographer and some of the lighting is not up to Bergman standards. And I noticed several very rough transitions in the editing, something that I cannot recall occurring in other Bergman films.

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The thing about the cinematography in Saraband is that Bergman was impressed with the technical advance in digital photo, so he shot the whole thing in HDCAM which is more sensitive to light then a normal 35mm.
Haven't seen Saraband, so I can not say how it looks, but that might be a reason why it looks different (if it does).

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In my opinion this film is closer to Bergman's older films that any other recent one. The fact that the film uses very simple scenery and only four principal actors whose interactions structure the entire film, makes it rather similar to "Through a glass darkely" in its form. Still, it is not as powerfull as that film, although some of the, in my opinion, too religious themes are not present in Saraband, which is good.

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Glad you singled out those four films. (Well, actually, I'm not sure about "Through a Glass Darkly"--I much prefer "Winter Light" and "The Silence"--but "Through a Glass Darkly" was pretty good anyway.) If you have a preference for those earlier films, you, like me, might not think much of "Saraband". It wasn't as phony as "Fanny and Alexander", but, basically, Bergman has made a long string of mediocrities of very little visual interest since "Cries and Whispers" or--another way of putting it--since "The Passion of Anna" with the exception of "Cries and Whispers". ("The Touch", the movie that was made between "Anna" and "Cries" was as mediocre as what followed.) I'll probably get a lot of enraged replies, but I still don't see how anyone that admires something like "Persona" would even bother with "Fanny and Alexander" or "Saraband".

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It's not quite as depressing or pessimistic as Cries and Whispers, Persona or Autumn Sonata, but still seems to retain the depressing Bergman mark. It deserves mention as a very good film nonetheless.

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It wasn't as phony as "Fanny and Alexander"


WHAT?!?!

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With all due respect, how could someone like yourself with such a great list of favourite films be unable to see the greatness of a colossal masterwork like 'Fanny and Alexander'? Do you not see that it encompasses many sides of Bergman's creative brilliance? And "phony"! Quite frankly, the mind reels at your logic on that one. Unless you're the offspring of Holden Caulfield, methinks you have much explaining to do.

Further, I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Bergman's post 1960's output. Sure, 'The Touch' is awful (Eliot Gould, please stand up) and 'The Serpent's Egg' was a great idea gone wrong but what about 'Scenes from a Marriage' - too visually spartan for you? Never mind that both the writing and acting are devastating. Or 'From the Life of the Marionettes', an extraordinary and much overlooked film (with much visual interest)? Or the dream sequences in 'Face to Face' (in particular, the one where Liv Ullmann's character confronts her dead parents)? Bergman's penultimate work 'In the Presence of a Clown' (which harks back to his more expressionist tastes as seen in 'Sawdust and Tinsel') is also brilliant. 'Saraband' does tend toward being more of a coda to his career - a little filmed play, really - but it has some interesting touches and rather brutal emotional moments which make it well worth seeing for anyone really interested in the great man's work.

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Being the last film by Ingmar and shot by him at the age of 85 it's "per se" admirable. If you add that "Saraband" it's indeed a very good film; one of the best from Bergman that I've seen, then that is a remarkable feat!

Most "Masters" of cinema had a "mediocre farewell". Like Chaplin with the infamous "A Countess from Hong Kong", Kurosawa with "Madadayo", Hitchcock with "Family Plot", Fellini with "La voce della luna". etc. Some others had just some mild success like Kubrick with "Eyes Wide Shut", but IMHO just Bergman and Buñuel finished their careers on a high note. Buñuel with "Cet obscur objet du désir" (one of his best movies) or Bergman with "Saraband".
Special mention deserves Kieslowski who finished his career with perhaps his best movie (Rouge) but all we know that Kieslowski died prematurely.

If you watch Saraband you will see one of Bergman finest efforts that only pales when compared to Bergman's greatest works: "Fanny och Alexander", "The Seventh Seal", "Persona", etc.

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It's both a blessing and a curse that this film will be compared with Bergman's earlier films. While it doesn't quite have the poignancy of "Cries and Whispers" or "Scenes From a Marriage," this film stands on its own. It's certainly much better than the other examples of cinematic farewells you gave.

The only thing missing here, at least from my perspective, was the cinematography of Sven Nykvist. I think "Saraband" is a bit too "colorful," considering its very dark subject matter. It's very well directed and acted, but the look of the film betrays the theme.

Other than that, it's an excellent sendoff. Nine stars out of 10.

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some mild success like Kubrick with "Eyes Wide Shut"


Given it was not a big succes it's actually my favorite "farewell movie". I was a little dissapointed by Buñuel's last work however. It's a good movie but my least favorite among the 8 that I've seen. However I agree that Buñuel had a great last chapter in his career.

Some other great last efforts were in my opinion "Offret" from Tarkovsky (I might stand alone here however) and Once Upon a time in America by Sergio Leone and also Kieslowski with his three colours trilogy.

---

You see things; and you say Why? But I dream things that never were and I say Why not?

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I’ve never found a film or book or work of art to be depressing, Bergman or otherwise.

As such: I don’t find his work depressing. His early stuff is good, especially his first films, like Torment, Port of Call, Crisis. Then he became a SERIOUS artist out to make SERIOUS statements. The statements about life can also be found in talking to the person on the corner, or at band night at your local bar, loss of faith, pain about the world,my marriage isn’t fun anymore, etc. Nothing that insightful in them.
And as he progressed, unlike those early films, his films lose any sort of societal context. He’s fully enraptured in the context of his own vision which is fine, but to me, this makes them less resonate works. But in doing so, he allows the viewer to project many things on his work, that simply are not there. Winter Light is one of his later works, where he peaked; he actually had some humor about him in that movie.

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I'm a huge Bergman fan, but I really wasn't at all impressed with "Saraband." It seemed over long, sloppy, and a bit of a retread. I know that BErgman in essence made the same film over and over, so it doesn't seem fair to call it a retread, but it didn't really add anything new to the themes he's been exploring his entire career.

The best that can be said about the film is that it isn't awful, but it certainly isn't necessary either.

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