So Effie Lied about the stunt? - Project Greenlight (2001) Discussion

[–] Latoija 9 years ago

She didn't lie. She told him they where on the road to getting him his stunt the way he wanted it done. She clearly said several times she was working on it. He and apparently half the audience misunderstood but no lie was told.

_____________
Shut it down

reply

[–] Stiler 9 years ago

So it's not a lie to tell someone , "we can do it the way you want."

Then in another conversation say, "We can't do the stunt with the flip yada yada."

That would feel like a pretty damn big lie to me, especially since she never told Jason that they couldn't do it and then waited until the LAST SECOND to tell him with Len and everyone else there and make him look like an idiot because he thought they WERE going to do it how he wanted to, because you know, she bloody told him.

reply

[–] Latoija 9 years ago

You seem to be unable to understand a simple series of events. Not being able to get something done is not the same as a lie. She never told him we can do it the way you want. You are quoting you imagination. She clearly told him that she was working on it. He was to busy talking about extra cars and and cameras to hear the part where she said that.

_____________
Shut it down

reply

[–] theunopeneddoor-697-442391 9 years ago

She DID lie to the exec that she said that though, which was childish.

Promo for my film about self-injury:
https://vimeo.com/140529647

reply

[–] Latoija 9 years ago

I'm confused as to what you are saying.

_____________
Shut it down

reply

[–] Stiler 9 years ago

So can you please explain how her telling Jason that she found a way to do the stunt "the way you wanted" and then telling them all at the dinner that the "flip" and things are off the table isn't a lie?

I mean, I only speak basic laymans english, but when you are telling someone one thing, and then alter what you said you could do to something else, that to me is a lie.

reply

[–] Latoija 9 years ago

I think the issue is that they didn't have the same understanding of what could have been done for that stunt after the initial conference call with Len maybe. It seems to me after just now rewatching the scenes that Effie came out thinking they where approaching the stunt as a trimmed down thing and Jason was not under that impression. I could be wrong. They did both say they would look at how to work out it out. At the end of the phone call on her end she seemed to be of the mind that it would be without the flip or streamlined as she put it. Jason, I am so so sure, he just said something vague about seeing what the stunt guy thought he could do and what it would cost.

But honestly in he end of the day I don't have an answer that is going to satisfy you. I just don't in my everyday day life label miscommunications as lies. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.
_____________
Shut it down

reply

[–] palooka-4 9 years ago

You seem to not be able to understand that she did straight up lie. As a producer you need to be able to communicate with people clearly, honestly, and without a condescending attitude. Effie is a big, fat douche.

End scene.

reply

[–] OddsAreIAmRight 9 years ago

Effie comes to Jason and tells him straight up, "I found a way to do the stunt the way you want."

You should know when you use those squiggly lines called quotation marks it indicates you are repeating words verbatim.

So here's what she actually said "I see a path, a very tenuous path, to do the stunt the way that you want."

And she's only talking about the financials here. We see that equally concerning to the big boss Len is the safety issues, regardless of cost. So Jason - being on the call with Len earlier - should have realized financials were only one aspect, but we all see Jason filters listening to just what he wants to hear.

I think Effie fumbled it a bit here, granted. She wasn't completely clear. But Jason is in his own world and doesn't seem to catch on to how things are being communicated on the fly in this world. So he ends up complaining about the loss of the insert car instead of getting a better handle on what "tenuous" should mean to him.

reply

[–] FattyMcButterpants 9 years ago

So here's what she actually said "I see a path, a very tenuous path, to do the stunt the way that you want."

Well, I'm personally not saying she lied, but you have to admit, for her to go from the above statement, to sitting at a table with everyone pretending the car flip was already off the table, is at least VERY shady and deceptive.

Unless there is a ton of conversations we arent seeing with the edit of the episode, she clearly went from making Jason believe he was on a path to get the stunt how he wanted, to making him look like an idiot for believing the car flip was still on the table.

Personally, it looked to me like she purposely withheld that information until it was too late to plan the stunt in time, that way she wouldn't get overruled again by people above her. She wanted to win this one and she made sure she did.

reply

[–] OddsAreIAmRight 9 years ago

but you have to admit

I did admit. I took the time to write this: "I think Effie fumbled it a bit here, granted. She wasn't completely clear."

Personally, it looked to me like she purposely withheld that information until it was too late to plan the stunt in time,

That is what Jason basically accused her of. OTOH, Jason didn't show the slightest appreciation for her efforts to help him (caveat he may be slightly autistic or something) so it's a little more complicated than it looks to question how masochistic she should be to go out of her way after that.

reply

[–] AdvanceIstheMan 9 years ago

Can you really blame him though? Effie may be very competent at her job but a lot of times she seems overly emotional and combative. You have to look at it from his perspective. She was against him when it came to shooting on film after Ben and Matt told him to stick to his guns. She calls him up and tells him to just figure out how to make the scenes day instead of night. She's the constant wall that he has to go up against. Again, that's her job and she's probably doing it well, but in his mind she's telling him he could do something he already assumed was possible. Then when the meeting happened she completely threw him under the bus. A normal person's reaction would have been I know I told you I was working on getting it done your way but this is why we can't. Instead she acts like they never had that conversation.

I honestly believe she wanted to make him look bad in front of Len, just in case if things go wrong she can be considered the voice of reason clashing with the diva director.

reply

[–] mollys-lips 9 years ago

Being the heavy is her job. Everyone flat out told Jason that film was outside of the budget and that he could get the same look on digital. It wasn't possible with the budget that she was given . Period. He then threw such a fit about it that Matt and Ben gave up their salary so that he could have his way. This is an example of Jason being told something and just not listening /caring.

Same thing with the house...NOTHING was good enough and he kept rejecting location after location, finally picking out with that was one of the first they saw meaning the crew lost all that time and had to dress the set in a rushed manner and getting all of the permissions in time became an issue.

I thought it was clear the stunt as originally proposed was off the table for a number of reasons. Like the film issue, it seemed pretty well decided. I thought the discussion about doing it like Jason wanted to was probably about some second choice option that had perhaps been discussed (not on camera) and then possibly was up in the air due to budget concerns. My reading of that convo was that the alternative stunt that he wanted after learning that the flip was off the table was possible. I could be wrong but the bigger point is that he just doesn't listen and doesn't consider the needs of other people. It's fine with him that the producers give up more of their money so he can shoot film. He didn't even bat an eye when he was offered film or 2 extra days of shooting. He doesn't care what these experienced location scouts have to say....this mansion is not good enough! He's just annoying and selfish. Could Elsie have been more clear realizing that she is working with someone like that? Yeah...but I would also be extremely frustrated if I were in her shoes and maybe might grow tired of repeating the same thing over and over again while crossing your fingers and hoping the director will hear you this time.

reply

[–] mollys-lips 9 years ago

Effie not Elsie...damn autocorrect!

reply

[–] LetsDriveSomewhere 9 years ago

I'm starting to think this guy is just too dumb to direct. It seemed as though Effie was attempting to have a real dialogue with him about her "tenuous path," but Jason kept staring off into space and talking about cars. I think that after a few attempts, Effie realized that she and Jason were having two different conversations, so she gave up. If he was even remotely engaged in his conversations with Effie he might actually walk away with some useful information.

Maybe the mark of a great line producer is having the ability to work with a complete imbecile, and if that's the case, then Effie just ain't got it. To be fair, I do wonder if perhaps Effie isn't flexible enough when it comes to working with certain personalities. Other people, like Marc and Pete Jones, for instance, seem to be able to work well with him. Her job is quite different from their's, though...

You think I'd speak for you? I don't even know your language.

reply

[–] OddsAreIAmRight 9 years ago

think that after a few attempts, Effie realized that she and Jason were having two different conversations, so she gave up.

Yep. If you watch that scene -- and others -- it seems a lot of the main players talk before the other person finishes. Must be the fast paced culture, but has to lead to problems too.

Maybe the mark of a great line producer is having the ability to work with a complete imbecile, and if that's the case, then Effie just ain't got it. To be fair, I do wonder if perhaps Effie isn't flexible enough when it comes to working with certain personalities. Other people, like Marc and Pete Jones, for instance, seem to be able to work well with him. Her job is quite different from their's, though...

Fair assessment. Which is rare around here.

reply

[–] beachgirlk 9 years ago

The mark of a great producer is someone who can speak clearly so people listen and respond. Effie did not make her point clearly at all. Why? Because she was too busy bragging about what a good job she was doing. She was blowing her own horn in the middle of trying to communicate with Jason and he probably started to tune her out, because he was in the middle of his shooting day.

That is one of my problems with Effie. She talks too much, as in, too many words. She is always adding phrases and stuff, and there are a lot of people who don’t want to hear all that extra stuff when they are trying to do their jobs.

She was unclear, and was unfair to Jason, and she has even admitted it in a Variety interview from last Friday or so.

reply

[–] OddsAreIAmRight 9 years ago

The mark of a great producer is someone who can speak clearly so people listen and respond. Effie did not make her point clearly at all. Why? Because she was too busy bragging about what a good job she was doing. She was blowing her own horn in the middle of trying to communicate with Jason and he probably started to tune her out, because he was in the middle of his shooting day.

I can see them both sharing blame, but it's cuckoo to if you can watch that scene and hold Jason blameless for the communication breakdown.

reply

[–] Lancer01 9 years ago

i wonder if the show did some heavy editing to create the situation about the stunt. maybe effie mentioned it but off camera. Jason would not have even heard her if she said something because he's all about himself.

reply

[–] oscarunger 9 years ago

he shouldve asked "so ....what exactly CAN we do? Either the car flips or it doesnt"

reply

[–] Lancer01 9 years ago

jason didnt even seem to care about the safety of the stuntman and stunt crew. He was just like MAKE MY DAMN CAR STUNT or die! it's all about what jason wants. but effie is still a major drama queen. they both deserve each other.

reply

[–] douces 9 years ago

He just seems so spaced out all the time, as if he's not processing what she says.

Also, Effie is a producer on the film, not a line producer. She has input into many things a line producer would not have and is credited as a producer. Affleck incorrectly identified her as the line producer in one episode.

reply

[–] AngstBoy42 9 years ago

She did lie.

But she's also brain-damaged, a narcissist and a compulsive liar, so I don't know how much we can fault her...

reply

[–] bensfiction 9 years ago

I think she's amazing at her job and so do the studios that have hired her...several times before.

No matter what you think she's going to continue her career as an extremely successful producer. You not understanding the role of a producer or how they work isn't really anyone's fault.

reply

[–] brownguy2004 9 years ago

Even if you discount the car Flip

Saying she could do it the way he wants is not true

because of the conversation about the insert camera. How it not off the table. Something he WANTED. So saying she said she would do it exactly the way he wants is ignoring the whole conversation

Reviews..reviews and MORE reviews
http://streamingrevies.blogspot.com/

reply

[–] brownguy2004 9 years ago

also lot of people killing the messenger

not shooting at night, if the stunt is safe or not, ultimatly not her decesions. That above her. She just telling him what the deal is most of the time.

Yea he works better with other people..because those people to have to bring him bad news and tell him when he doesnt have any money.

Reviews..reviews and MORE reviews
http://streamingrevies.blogspot.com/

reply

[–] realplayer54 8 years ago

She did lie.

But she's also brain-damaged, a narcissist and a compulsive liar, so I don't know how much we can fault her...

Jason, is that you?

That's my corn out there! You guys are guests in my corn!

reply

[–] charleyhydel 9 years ago

I'm not sure she lied. It seems there was a conversation that was not on the show. She says at the table that they all had a phone call where she relayed this info that the stunt could not be done the way he wanted.

The show does a good job of putting them against each other. The real relationship seems toxic, but Jason seems like a strange fellow.

reply

[–] weirdguygreen 9 years ago

For Effie, this entire production is really about her. Constantly, she filters absolutely everything going on through the lens of her own experience of it, and through her "diversity" obsession (where diversity just means "can we have as few white people as possible around, please?")

I believe she has gotten to the point now where she has let her resentment for Jason, and probably her dislike of him because he's not just white but ultra-white, bring her to a point of deliberately attempting to sabotage him and make him look bad.

No mistake, he is in fact difficult to deal with. He is, in fact, a stubborn annoyingly artsy guy. Still, those types do sometimes make some very impressive films and the attributes he has are not uncommon for a director or any sort of visionary.

I wouldn't want to have to deal with Jason in a work environment, but I'd do anything to avoid working with Effie in one.

reply

[–] nybigapple 9 years ago

I have no doubt a lot of this is due to the editing of the show. They film days and portray it in minutes, so we're missing a lot of the communication. But from what was aired, it seemed clear that Effie said she thinks it would be possible to get something as close as possible to what Jason wanted. She did not guarantee him anything. She said it involved diverting funds from other areas, in particular the overage money from each day and using it on the stunt. Logic says that money is not guaranteed since many of those days haven't passed yet. She never said he definitely had the stunt exactly as he wants.

They also never aired any conversation before that one about the stunt except between Effie and the stuntman. So it would make sense if that was the first time Jason was hearing about the stunt that he would be confused.

Effie has a way of talking that is very non-definitive. She implies things. She never said no to film in the beginning. She just kept emphasizing the effects on the budget assuming Jason would say okay. Jason doesn't hear no, until he hears NO NO NO NO NO NO. Even then he doesn't really hear no. Just like how episode 6 ended. He still didn't hear a definitive no, even after Effie implied no flip 3 different ways.

reply

[–] LetsDriveSomewhere 9 years ago

Effie has a way of talking that is very non-definitive. She implies things. She never said no to film in the beginning.

But she did, though. She literally told him he wasn't going to shoot on film.

I don't particularly like the way she talks. She seems to be a conversational type of person. She will tell you yes, no, or maybe, but she wants to discuss why it's a yes, no, or maybe. If she and I were just friends, that would be cool, but if I was the director, there would definitely be times where I would flat out tell her to get to the point. But that's, ya know, effective communication - something Jason is lacking.

Having said that, I still think she is clear about what she says if you just listen to her. All of that seems to be lost on a person like Jason, who only wants to hear yes. He doesn't process maybe, let alone the reasons behind why it's a maybe. And if he hears no, he will go around you until he hears something that sounds like a yes. He's better with people who are in no position to tell him yes or no, like his relationship with Pete, for instance.

You think I'd speak for you? I don't even know your language.

reply

[–] nybigapple 9 years ago

She actually didn't say no till Jason brought up film after the call with Len Amoto. She was visibly surprised he was still asking after that conversation with Len on the phone even though the call was non definitive. By definitive I mean saying the word "No." as in the actual worlds.

You are right. She was clear with her intention and nobody would doubt she is implying and meaning "no film" every time Jason mentioned it. But she did not clearly say "you will not shoot film" till maybe 4 or 5 conversations in. After he got the definitive no from Effie he went to Affleck.

reply