I think Roger is right on the point by saying that most women like mean guy's over nice ones (even those with great sense of humor).
shareI think that most women like interesting guys over boring ones.
Mean guys just tend to be more interesting.
Nice guys tend to be boring.
So you can be nice, so long as you aren't boring.
This movie clicked on SO many levels. The best part? its script. so brutal, so honest, so incredible.
Oh, yeah, of course women want a tough guy over a nice one. ANY DAY my friend. This is the conclusion I've come to:
Young women, who are not looking for a marriage partner (presumably ages 16-24), will not and do not want to be with a nice guy. They want to have FUN. They don't want a family yet. They don't to reveal their deepest secrets and be close to someone. They want to go out to a bar, meet a cute guy, listen to his roger dodger smooth lines, and go home with him, and enjoy the fun while she still has a chance. She wants the mean guy, the bad ass. Of course.
However, once she gets to a certain age, say 22-28, and she begins to look for mr. right, the 'one', whatever the f uck you wanna call it, she will not give the mean guy a chance. She wants to go out and have fun with the bad ass, but settle down and marry the cool, caring guy because he'll be a great father and a great husband, and frankly, he's a normal person to be with.
In other words, women will f uck Roger till they're 24, then they'll marry someone like Nick. Sadly, though, sometimes women tend to marry guys like Roger anyway, and THAT is a source of a great deal of unhappiness for them. Kinda ruins it for all the Nicks out there(ahem ahem), because for all women know, Nick is just another Roger....
That is very sobering
shareOf course this doesn't apply for every woman. Some women are happy to hook up with a Nick but some Nicks may think these women are beneath them. They prefer to chase the women who want nothing to do with them.
No two persons ever watch the same movie.share
Exactly, and therein lays the paradox. But consider:
Attractive women like bad boys.
Attractive women find nice men boring.
Nice men want the attractive women.
Nice men do not want unattractive women.
What’s so nice about that?
I personally am one of those women that has no problem attracting men. (And there are tenacious strings attached to that—whether you want to believe it or not—but that’s an entirely different discussion.) I am only saying this to stop those out there who are going to write me off for being unfulfilled, spiteful, unattractive, etc., etc., etc.
So, if you guys are so nice, why are “fat chicks” out of the question? Why do you all insist on having a supermodel, no matter what you, personally, look like?
AND:
Why don’t you “nice” guys stay nice? Why does the “nice” guy change, once he’s won his conquest? Suddenly he needs to be in control, and the respectful niceties go out the window and the he-man woman-hater (to paraphrase the Little Rascals) comes out. Of course I am generalizing here in a big way and it’s sure to ruffle some feathers, but it seems to me that once a guy has you where he wants you (ie, in his control) mean and nice are really just two parts of the same thing….a guy.
If you could crack the code, Yinky, you'd be a very rich person.
Personally, I don't care about who likes who. Or who chases who. It's annoying hearing guys whine as if there are no companionship options if the bikini model blows them off.
No two persons ever watch the same movie.share
Except that fat chicks don't want to be with dorks either.
They both aim high, and are disappointed when they fail.
The only difference being is that fat chicks will get laid (because guys get drunk). But dorks get nothing.
Now see, that's not necessarily true. Fat chicks WILL sleep with the dorks. They will also date the dorks. Sure, they would like to have the Brad Pitt looking guys, but the difference is that the fat chick wouldn't shoot down the dork, the way the dork would the fat chick. Unless, of course, she really didn't like the guy. That happens too--like my whole "where ARE the nice guys" question--dork guys can be just as a**holey as the hot guys. Especially if he feels himself superior the fat chick (and a LOT of dorks seem to--simply because they aren't fat, or got a A in calculus or something--the same way a dork will treat a pretty girl like she couldn't POSSIBLY be as intellegent as he is---though that's another conversation, init).
My beef here is that the dork will pull out all the gentlemanly stops--ala Roger--but once the supermodel falls for him and gets "hooked", if you will, the a**hole comes out and the nice guy is gone. I've seen it happen countless times. Just because the guy seems nerdy and sweet doesn't mean he actually IS.
Well, eventually, they'll get together. But in the beginning, each group sees themselves as being better than the other.
It goes both ways, believe me. I've seen women who weren't prizes treat their boyfriends/husbands like dogs, ordering them around, in public. It's pretty embarrassing.
Your problem, though, is probably that you're just somewhat unfulfilled, spiteful, unattractive, etc.
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Do women like mean guys? Well, I have certainly met a lot of women that say they dont and then turn around and choose them as dating partners. I find it funny when these same women then complain that their men are mean, as if they had no idea what they were getting into. I suppose that mean men (or women) project confidence, but that only tells me that they are confident about being jerks and being self-centered.
What I think is that some people often need varying degrees of conflict in their lives, but also hate to admit (or reveal it at first) for fear of scaring someone away. Now, I dont think it is necessarilly about being mean. I think it is about not being boring and showing confidence in how you choose to live your life. I think that people naturally want a nice person to share their life with, but dont want a complete pushover either.
When it comes to nice guys staying nice, well, the reality of it is that they werent nice guys to begin with, but it goes both ways. If there is a change after the conquest, it is because the nature of the relationship has changed (We are not trying to impress each other anymore). I think people get comfortable after a little while and often forget that it is possible to lose what you have fought to gain. This is where fighting (conflict) often puts things into perspective again.
However, if someone does a complete 180 and becomes a total a-hole after the conquest, I would think that there simply wasnt enough effort put into getting to know each other at the start. Many people do tend to lie to get what they want, but after you have met a ton of liars, it does get easier to weed them out.
Personally, it is interesting women that steal my attention. Being attractive without being interesting eventually gets boring, and who wants to be in a boring relationship?
But with mean guys, don't you think there is an element of the con going on, at least at first? I have been involved with two men (ten years apart) who I think are sincerely are evil and psychopathic, with literally no redeeming qualities to offer anyone. But each were an expert at making a person feel like you were the most amazing, interesting, captivating person he'd ever met. (Men and women alike.) And! The "mean-ness" doesn't manifest itself over night--one day Prince Charming and the next Ivan The Terrible. The mean-ness is gradual, and it happens in such a way that the person feels they must have done something to bring it on.
These guys aren't like the Roger character, who is an abrasive prick from the get-go (at least, in the part of his life we get to see).
So anyway, my point is, or might be, that women don't always exactly choose the guy FOR his mean-ness. There is a certain con that goes on in the beginning. Really, to a lesser extent, it happens in every relationship, as we're trying to impress each other with how cool we are.
Nice guys staying nice: I think what I was getting at is that if you specifically pick a man that is average looking, or nerdy, or overweight, etc, because these traits mean he MUST be a nice guy, doesn't necessarily mean he IS a nice guy. One of the meanest men I've ever met was a college roommate of mine who was tall, painfully thin, and looked like the cartoon "Woodstock" in the face. He had some kind of nerdy major and went out with your typical nerd-girls. And he was by far the most cruel, hateful, jealous, spiteful prick he could possibly be to these women. And he could never understand why he couldn't keep a girlfriend--he saw himself as the quintessential nice guy! But he routinely would berate them for being stupid, unattractive (doing that guy-thing of openly drooling over skantily-clad women on MTV) or overweight. They would bail and he would actually be bewildered..."why do women treat me this way?"
I think the reason women are attracted to thiese meanies, really, lies in the way that we're raised. We are brought up to believe that the man is the leader, the hunter, the boss, and that we are to be subservient. Not everyone is brought up to believe that they deserve abuse, but a lot of women are brought up to believe that they need to be told what to do by our mate. So it's hard to differentiate btwn the ones that are abusive and the ones that are strong, but also good and caring. And I think men are raised to believe that goodness and kindness are sign of weakness, so they tend to try to bury it. And sometimes it gets lost.
People are mean to each other for many reasons - and sometimes it's not just an inherent trait.
I think that meanness comes mostly out of long-term resentment and bitterness. People eventually tire of each other and get sick of the BS - and little things that used to seem cute, become just down-right annoying.
With Rogers, though, I think that women are attracted to the confidence and the compliments. He knows what to say to pique their interest, and also what to say to make it seem like he's interested. It's all phony, but they know how to play it so that some women fall for it.
So, if you guys are so nice, why are “fat chicks” out of the question? Why do you all insist on having a supermodel, no matter what you, personally, look like?
Fair enough.
But I wouldn't not date someone just because they average looking. Maybe it's a girl thing, we're not all "visually oriented" (snort) like guys are.
Incidently, I love that "visually oriented" excuse as to why men like porn & strip clubs more than (most) women do. I like smut as much as the next guy, but I'll be hanged before I stick my hard-earned cash in some guy's jock because he's slithering around on a stage. Heh.
I hope I didn't just open the proverbial can 'o' worms.....
But I wouldn't not date someone just because they average looking. Maybe it's a girl thing, we're not all "visually oriented" (snort) like guys are.
Somebody's ugly is another man's perfect ten? Not always. I do know a guy who thinks Jennifer Aniston is absolutely disgusting-looking (he calls her "Butterface"), but we're not talking about Jennifer Aniston. We're talking about Kathy Bates. How many men saw her nude scene in About Schmitt and went, "Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!!"
Well, sure, I'd gawk at the Brad Pitt guy, but I wouldn't ignore the average guy if he started talking to me, just because Brad Pitt was there. And anyway, I've found that incredible looking men, in real life, tend to know it, and tend to use it to every advantage they can. Not saying that beautiful women don't do that as well, but....I think beautiful women are much more common than beautiful men, so there's more competition. Your chances of finding a good-looking woman who is actually a nice person are much better, because really, there are way more attractive women than there are attractive men. In a social situation, you MIGHT run into one gorgeous man, but you will probably see several very attractive women.
I see what you mean about "ugly." I think I have met a few guys who really there was no way in hell. Butchaknow, there is usually some kind of physical deformity, lisp, slovenliness, or something, very bad acne...honestly. But with an average man, where there is no third eye, weird smell, gross teeth...Mr. Pitt sincerely has less a chance than an average guy. (But granted, maybe it's just me.)
See, there's the difference - we will stick our hard-earned cash in women's G-strings.
shareWhy?
shareWhy? Why what? Why would we waste our money that way? Because we're stupid. We have a few beers and see naked women, and that's what we do. There's really no explaining it. It's what most guys do.
Actually, to be honest, I don't think that I've been to a strip club in more than five years. But that's not to say that I wouldn't. I'm past the age where I've got bachelor parties to go to - and there's not really much opportunity.
Yep, that's what I meant. I don't get the strip club thing. I have had guys try to explain it, and they pretty much just say "because we like to look at naked women." Well, yeah...but to throw your money at some girl you're not allow to touch? What's pleasurable about that? If you're going to go that far, why not just get a hooker?
I know a few guys that are "addicted" to strip clubs. Most guys will tell you that once they're in a relationship, the only time they go is the bachelor party type situation. But there are those guys that sneak out to them, behind their partner's back. That truly frightens me....I see it as cheating. It's contact of a sexual nature. While I don't mind porn mags or movies (in other words, don't consider that cheating), when there is another person involved it seems to be a betrayl. I've found that most men agree with that. It's funny, though--the ones who don't think it's cheating admit they'd feel uncomfortable if they knew their woman was stuffing her dollar in some dude's jock. But then, those guys are the type of men I think are idiots anyway. Not Rogers....not smart enough to be Rogers. More like a dog chasing a car.
Well, Yinky, you can't really think that looking at naked women is equivalent to getting a hooker. To some of us, paying for sex is on the other side of a line that we find difficult to cross.
Trust me, I've got no reason to lie, most of us go to strip clubs rarely, and only with a few other guys. I'll admit that I've seen guys, alone, sitting at the stage, feeding bills to the dancers, talking to them quietly, thinking that they have a chance. It's pathetic.
I've never lied to my woman about going, and I really wouldn't give a sh!t if she wants to go and see some other guy's junk. I'm not a jealous guy.
You have a good attitude about it, I appreciate the honesty. I guess I can see how dancers and hookers are different, but to me, it's all pretty much the same thing. I think if my boyfriend/husband frequented the nudie bars "just because," it would really feel no different to me than if he had been shagging hookers. Maybe that's a little idealist or juvenile, or judgemental, I don't know. But for some reason, any kind of interaction of a sexual nature btwn my guy and another woman is a betrayl.
I would really like to believe you when you say most guys go only rarely. Maybe I've just known a cruddy group of men. But when I think about it, my blue-collar-beer-drinker-and-hell-raiser friends are no different than the educated, corporate guys I work with. They all spend at least a couple hundred a month at the strip club (the only difference, I guess, is that white-collar guys can spend more than that). Then they go home to their wives/girlfriends and lie about it. Bums me out.
"Some other guy's junk" ha!!! The trouble is, you never actually see the junk (unless it's a private party), you just see the bump. And they're never really as hot as you would hope, either; you usually get a guy with a nice face, who is big, but also kind of fat. Most of the really hot ones are gay. I've seen a couple shows, and I think, really, women only go for the novelty of it. It's actually kind of stupid (and really very GAY) to watch a man dance around in his skivvies.
Maybe this line of thinking is a true difference btwn the sexes! I don't really believe we're all that different, to be honest, but there are some areas that would have to exist, I guess.
Sounds like you hang with a different crowd than me, Yink.
I don't know of anyone who spends that much time at the nudie bars. So, I'll agree with you there, that it's a big waste of $, and if a guy's going that much, then yeah, maybe a hooker is what he needs instead.
Trust me - you don't really want to see the junk.
Ha! Well, it's the double-standard that bugs me. I think if I'm paying I should at least be able to glimpse the junk, unsavory as it may be.
I don't hang out with those guys, exactly, I just know who they are. Well, I used to date one years ago. Eyew. Bad memories.
Ha. Save your money, though - I'm sure that there're plenty of guys that'd be more than willing to give you an unsavory glimpse for free.
I want to let you know Yinky I am taking that post and will try to instill in myself what it takes to avoid what you say happens if/when a nice guy like me ever does get a girl. I think that's a very underrated aspect of this argument.
shareWell, cool...what part of the arguement are you talking about?
shareI'm gonna have to stop you there, I'm an unattractive woman and my husband is really nice, and he wanted (wants) me.
.. I am, in a word, terse.
No, that's not true.
Women just hate guys that have no self-confidence. It makes them look needy and desperate. Some of the nicest guys I know are in great relationships, and miserable ones are in short-lived ones. I think that's why you're lead to believe that jerks are always getting women. It's more of they can't hold a relationship, and need to look for new girls every month.
As far as the strip club thing goes, I went once on my 22nd or 23rd birthday. A couple of friends too me. It was an interesting experience. There is something to be said for seeing beautiful women seductively dancing around you and their is fun to be had with a lap dance. I had a good enough time but I didn't spend any of my own money.
Now paying for a prostitute, I think the majority of us men see that as entirely different than going to a strip club and getting a lap dance. A strip club is seen as a place of amusement and fun. No one is really having any sex there or anything. Men can't even masturbate in a strip club which is something they could do at home. I think most guys see it as no more worse then checking out porn.
A prostitute however conjures up a lot of issue. Questions of morality come far more deeply into play. Personally I would wonder, "who is this girl?" "Does she want to be doing this?" "Is she forced to do this?" There is much more guilt and anxiety. When I think about the two subjects they feel totally different. I think I would be very hard pressed to willingly pay for the services of a prostitute. Going to a strip club and paying a prostitute for flat out sex feel like tow totally different leagues of action.
Would I go back? Perhaps if the situation arose but it's not something that I really think about. I think the excitement/fun aspect really has a lot to do with girls and "mean" guys. Nice guys don't usually stir flames in the hearts of women. Jerks, party animals, etc. can be unpredictable and crazy which can be fun. I find that a lot of women enjoy thrills. Seems that the majority of girls I come across are closet action junkies. They love emotional thrills. Nice guys who are predictable don't offer that and they lose out.
Also, I am a firm believer that it is 10 times easier for a woman to get laid than a man. I don't care if she is ugly, fat, anorexic, or what. A slew of at least average- a little below average looking guys would have sex with her. I often see what most people would claim "unattractive" women with decent looking guys. I rarely see decent looking girls with physical "unattractive" men. It's not hard to see a very overweight woman with a slim decent looking guy as opposed to very overweight man with a slim decent looking woman, at least in my experience.
"Cool will get ya dead." -Former NBA Power Forward, Karl Malone
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Roger's point was bitter and born out of contempt for women in general, bred by the rejection he suffered at the hands of his boss who toyed with him. She didn't leave him for a mean dude on a bike though.
I'm very sure there are poor women with low self esteem who think they deserve to be mistreated or look for the biker type because they think he's going to protect them and be rough on the outside but soft on the inside, like in stupid romcoms.
Women as a gender, though, are not attracted to mean guys, or even bad boys. Those you've seen "choosing them as dating partners" (somewhat contradictory I know since the bad boys are supposed to be only for wild sex and the nice guys for relationships later in life) are letting movies get to their heads. They think they're going to change them. And nothing is quite attractive to a straight woman as changing the guy she's with. So why start with a nice guy to begin with? They like the challenge.
Seriously though, I still say it's not women in general. Just a few lost misguided souls trying to redeem their lives by hooking up with a frog and turning him into a prince.
Mean guys just tend to be more interesting. Nice guys tend to be boring.
So, if you guys are so nice, why are “fat chicks” out of the question? Why do you all insist on having a supermodel, no matter what you, personally, look like?
could you tell me the trance music that was playing in the club
share[deleted]
Taboo, I think people in general, especially young people, are attracted by people who seem exciting, and 'bad boys' (not mean ones, btw) give off more of that vibe, at least at a superficial level. It takes us a while to realize that they have nothing to offer in the long run.
There is something wrong with a woman who stays with someone who is mean to her.
Unfortunately, young women often only notice the jerks who are aggressive with them because they have nothing to lose.
Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it!