MovieChat Forums > Riri Shushu no subete (2001) Discussion > This is a high school kid's art project ...

This is a high school kid's art project gone wrong!


This movie looks like it was filmed by a high school kid, replete with: slow pacing ; poor acting and writing.

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LOL, the only problem here is you can't stand with slow movie. You even said that The Dark Knight is boring (don't get me wrong, I like TDK, but it's kinda overrated for me), so no wonder you failed to appreciate slow movie which is carefully crafted in subtlety like All About Lily Chou-Chou.

You don't even bother to explain why do you think AALCC has a poor acting and writing. Just because you don't understand the movie, doesn't mean the movie is bad.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25080181

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Yeah, I didn't understand the movie - it has a such a complex plot...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0297721/plotsummary

Maybe you can explain what I didn't understand about the movie?


I have problems with slow movies, music and novels that don't engage me cerebrally. Often, things that appeal to Joe Average don't appeal to me; that's been my life.


I don't read or speak Japanese. Maybe something got lost in translation but the writing ( especially about the "ether" ) was repetitive and amateurish. The Lilly Chou Chou music was a bit of a joke too: "I see you and you see me and I see you and you see me". Those lyrics might be passable when you are four years old. The comparisons to Bjork had me intrigued ( until I actually heard LCC ). Honestly this movie is an insult to anyone that actually listens to Bjork or "music from the ether".

www.MySpace.com/MrAgmoore

The characters, acting and cinematography are not developed enough for me to care about them - the girl who gets raped or the girl who suicides. I can't feel anything for two dimensional characters.

Björk - Pagan Poetry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kErskB8s16M

bjork-hyper ballad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH6CXQtFbBE

TORI AMOS video CAUGHT A LITE SNEEZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6RQGGSBGg

Tori Amos~*~Father Lucifer~*~(Live '96)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvzBb1QnB8c

Kate Bush - Running up that Hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BZsXVf6INc

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Yeah, I didn't understand the movie - it has a such a complex plot...

Maybe you can explain what I didn't understand about the movie?

I don't read or speak Japanese. Maybe something got lost in translation but the writing ( especially about the "ether" ) was repetitive and amateurish. The Lilly Chou Chou music was a bit of a joke too: "I see you and you see me and I see you and you see me". Those lyrics might be passable when you are four years old. The comparisons to Bjork had me intrigued ( until I actually heard LCC ). Honestly this movie is an insult to anyone that actually listens to Bjork or "music from the ether".


Obviously, you missed some points here. Because you expected a character spill out some smart line like in Annie Hall or Fight Club.

but the writing ( especially about the "ether" ) was repetitive and amateurish


It was repetitive and looks amateurish, because that's what the director intended to. This is the chatroom which most users is high school students, 13 -15 years old. The chat room allowed to us to observe the naïve view of Lily Chou-Chou's fans, mostly teenagers, to their idol. That's why it looks amateurish or even pretentious, because,literally, it was a bunch of amateurs who speaks there. What do you expect? A smart conversation between Thoreau and Hemingway perhaps?

The Lilly Chou Chou music was a bit of a joke too: "I see you and you see me and I see you and you see me". Those lyrics might be passable when you are four years old


Wait a minute, you said yourself that you don't speak Japanese , how come you judge the music solely from a few English lines, while most of the lyrics is in Japanese. Seriously, you are the joke here.
Yes, I admit that the English part is kinda simple, but the Japanese part is awesome, my favourite is Tobenai Tsubasa which have a very strong lyric. And note this, I'm fans of Bjork too, and Lily Chou-Chou music is not an insult for Bjork. If you bother to read some thread here, many people who have good taste in music (including Bjork) love Lily Chou-Chou music too. I myself prefer Salyu (Lily Chou-Chou) rather than Tori Amos.


The characters, acting and cinematography are not developed enough for me to care about them - the girl who gets raped or the girl who suicides. I can't feel anything for two dimensional characters.


If you fail to care enough for them, it's your problem. Yes, there is no character development in conventional manner, because of the strong subtlety that the movie brough out. This subtlety that makes some people would fail to see the complexity of the characters just like you. If you just can see it, you will find one of most complex characters (IMO) in movie history (again, IMO) , far from what you say as two dimensional characters. I quote my other post in another thread here about Tsuda, the girl who committed suicide.


How can you say Tsuda's story is only a side-story. Tsuda's story is not only her own story, it's also Hasumi's story, our "hero" in Lily Chou Chou. Through Tsuda, we can see the helplessness feeling that overwhelming Hasumi. Just watch the scene when Hasumi walked Tsuda home. Yes, I'm talking about the scene when Tsuda throw the money, and then spank Hasumi with her bag, then run into the ditch. Through this scene we can see even in silence how both of them (not only Tsuda) is deeply in pain. The pain that Tsuda feels for being used by Hoshino, and the pain that Hasumi feels for being hopelessly coward and powerless to help that poor girl.

So I really really disagree with your saying that Tsuda's part is not essential. Tsuda's story helps us to understand Hasumi's character.





http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25080181

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1) I have not watched Annie Hall and I thought that Fight Club was overrated garbage, that required such a suspension of disbelief that I might as well re-watch a surrealist movie like Arizona Dream or more preferably, Bubba Ho-tep. You were probably one of the many who thought that the few lines ripped out of the Tao Te Ching and spouted in Fight Club were * really really * profound. Yeah right. Read a book or three thousand! If you are holding up Fight Club as the epitome of "smart lines" there's really not much to say about your choice of art.

You gave Fight Club 8.7, Dark Knight 9.1 and all about Lilly Chou Chou 7.7 ?

Challenge yourself with these movies:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401383/board/thread/116820839

And before that, Singing in the Rain and The Prestige. The last DVD that I bought was Ray. These are memorable, movies worth recommending.


"It was repetitive and looks amateurish, because that's what the director intended to."

It's not innovative, it's not creative; there's a website already dedicated to that style of directing, it's called YouTube.com

15 minutes of endless, inane, circular conversations about the ether is not entertaining. Juddering, epileptic, camera shaking during the rape scene is quite frankly a cop-out from someone who simply can't handle the maturity of actually filming a rape scene and actors who can't act it out.

I mean god-forbid that you actually have something meaningful like The Accused:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094608/

or Monster:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/

or Lilja 4-ever ( which I mentioned in the link at the beginning of this post ).

that would actually require having a mature audience but this movie is clearly aimed at adolescents.

"If you fail to care enough for them, it's your problem."

Wrong that's obviously a problem for the author, screenplay writer, casting, actors, director and art direction etc.


The scene with Tsuda being escorted home and the "bicycle advertisement/ Claude Debussy" were the most memorable scenes in the movie. Saying that a girl who's character was "filmed naked and was being blackmailed into prostituting herself" was "one of most complex characters (IMO) in movie history" is just ridiculous. All I can say is, watch more movies.

Tsuda's scenes consisted of figuring out what panties to wear for a client ( during a telephone conversation), an unwanted hug from a client, the highway scene and her laying on the grass, in front of a pylon.

Everything else is just you, most likely projecting your own life onto the movie.

"Wait a minute, you said yourself that you don't speak Japanese , how come you judge the music solely from a few English lines, while most of the lyrics is in Japanese. Seriously, you are the joke here."

No, the lack of english subtitles are the joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

You do know that music is a universal language, right? I have the () album from Sigur Rós and guess what? I don't speak Icelandic! LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigur_Rós

My MySpace webpage, until recently had the title track to "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence" by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryuichi_Sakamoto

You know, the great thing about music is that all you need are ears and a brain!

LOL

*8P

Merry Christmas Mr.Lawrence -Original Version-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkWjsT_SJNI


Sakamoto Ryuichi - Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence (Live)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwkuS9FlB7M

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LOL

All About MrAgmoore:

1. He has 300 music CD's , therefore it makes him a music expert and have right to tell other people's music taste which is different from him sucks.

2. He thinks people who loves AALCC never watched movies like: Monster, The Prestige, Lilja 4ever, Ray, The Accused, singing in the rain, or Ray .... LOL

3. He thinks people who loves Lily Chou-Chou's music never knows musician like Sigur Ros or Ryuichi Sakamoto or Bjork. While in fact some people who likes Lily Chou-Chou already fans of musicians that he mentioned.

4. He says he's 34 years old. How surprising!!! I thought I was talking with 15 years old kid. His way of arguing is somewhat similar or even worse with the way of teenager fans of Lily Chou-Chou talking in chatroom,.... pretentious and think that his opinion is an absolute truth.

5. For him, popular = bad , and that makes him feels that he is special.

6. He appreciate music with his "brain" LOL , since when music is somekind of mathematic. Most people use their heart and feeling to value music.




http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25080181

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"You do know that music is a universal language, right? I have the () album from Sigur Rós and guess what? I don't speak Icelandic! LOL "

Sigur Rós doesn't sing in Icelandic, either.

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The Lilly Chou Chou music was a bit of a joke too: "I see you and you see me and I see you and you see me". Those lyrics might be passable when you are four years old.


I think that line is supposed to be ironic, in a way that Lily Chou-Chou is never shown on-screen. It's also supposed to embody the theme of finding oneself within the music; to feel the artist's own woes and relate them to one's own.

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"All About Lily Chou-Chou deals with bullying, depressions, the salvation one can find in music and some hikikomori indications, not developed, but still indications, a beautiful and at the same time disturbing insight in Japan's youth and school life and the power that music can have... "

Yeah, I already posted IMDB's plot summary:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0297721/plotsummary

Gosh, hasn't every school kid in the developed countries, experienced bullying, depression and salvation in music? I experienced those things + interracial warfare ( growing up as a non-caucasian in the UK ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

The UK, Germany, France, Japan - they all have extreme education systems and are competing against one another. Imperial super powers, former imperial super powers or wanabe imperial super powers.

"There's only few possibilities you got when you watch that movie:
you either can comprehend what happens to some of the characters and what music can mean for one or you just won't get into the movie.
it's that simple."

Or... I comprehend what happens AND ( obviously ) with over 300 music CDs I know what music can mean AND I think that the movie is quite terrible:

www.MySpace.com/MrAgmoore


"how many times did you watch it? the first 15 minutes and then stopped?"

How much of this thread did you read?


"you don't have to like this movie, but your claims are just not based on something solid..."

My claims are based on the movie and the movie is not based on something solid...

"poor acting and writing. so, did you read the script?"

No. Why would I read the script from a movie that I dislike? Do you read scripts from movies that you dislike?


"how do you know what good acting is and what not?"

I'm an empath *shrug* I'll be 34 years old in October. I love art so... 29 years of absorbing art? How do you know what smells like cheese and what doesn't?


"what was poor about the acting?"

The phrase "ham-fisted" comes to mind.


" of course the movie would be nothing without the music, the whole piece is carried by the music and not especially by the acting, but that doesn't make the acting automatically poor or so. I'd rather describe the acting as "kept alongside the music"."

The movie is very obviously stuffed to the gills with Debussey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKPBtZ0Zzok


"the focus is not so much on the actors and the characters, but more on the pictures, the music and the whole plot..."

Well it's not The Mirror by Andrei Tarkovsky, that's for sure

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072443/


"why not let it be and enjoy..."

Well, I have just read many positive comments about this movie. One guy even compared Lilly to a couple of Tarkovsky movies. A couple of guys, who gave positive reviews, pointed out flaws in the movie and one guy mentioned that "the screenplay was purportedly co-written by students":


"A desperate, hopeless failure, 29 April 2002

ALL ABOUT LILY CHOU CHOU (pronounced "shoo-shoo") is Shunji Iwai's ambitious paeon to rougher high-school days, a coming-of-age film that confronts the bullying problem that has apparently become endemic in many Japanese schools. One certainly cannot fault the film's willingness to confront certain social realities in imaginative ways.

The LILY in the title is a pop singer whose songs about alienation and pain affect a disillusioned group of high school kids who stay in touch, for the most part anonymously, thanks to a computer chat room. Pop songs offer escape from a gray, sadistic school life. And they have a lot to escape from. Bullies humiliate their prey through rape, humiliation, torture, ostracization, burglary and violence; the worst of the girls have no problem setting up one of their most talented and beautiful girls for a gang-rape and hazing. The screenplay was purportedly co-written by students, but it's difficult to know the dividing line between "reality" and invention.

It's rough stuff -- and also rife with pretense. This story of feral youth has lots of jiggly hand-held shots, raw video, and chatroom inserts, with the intention of offering a disjointed narrative. All it does is mangle the film's already jumbled narrative. To Iwai, it's all just survival of the fittest, whether in remote Okinawa or during a high school break, but the delivery and substance if the film combine to make you, at times, feel nauseous.

But the photography, at its best, can be striking, and the concept of using technological devices to color the narrative is interesting, at least at the beginning. Finally, I ended up bored - and that's the one thing that even a bad film can't afford to be. "

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It just seems that you disliked the film. Of course film, like many things, is subjective. AALCC is my favorite movie, and I've seen plenty of films. I think I would disagree 100% that the acting is bad. I think it is fantastic acting especially considering these are children.

BTW, while the Prestige is entertaining, I didn't think it was anything special. And "The Mirror" is Tarkovsky's worst film (although I would probably give it a 5 or 6 out of 10). Just some thoughts on your recommended movies, although I haven't seen the others that you talked about.

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MrAgmoore, do you have any idea how pretentious you sound? "I know what good movies are like, and none of you have apparently seen any, or else you would agree with me." It doesn't work like that, as you are no doubt aware. The appreciation of all art forms is subjective. Just because you like it, it is not necessarily good, and because you hate it, that doesn't mean it's bad.

I've seen Lilya 4-ever and I loved how it showed the horrors of the real world without the slightest restraint. I loved how it made me feel miserable. You must realize, though, that AALCC simply doesn't intend or pretend to approach its subject matter the same way. You flaunt the plot summary to show that the movie is actually very simple, but in the end it's not about bullying and it's not about suicide, and it surprises me that someone so eager to find his brain activated and challenged by a movie didn't see that. This movie isn't about the real world in the way that Lilya 4-ever is about the real world. It's about reflecting upon that world and finding one's place inside or, if necessary, outside of it. The movie has themes and levels of meaning that go far deeper than the mere events you see unfolding before you. Perhaps we can agree that this is the hallmark of a good movie, rather than a meaningless product made for the entertainment of the masses?

The music is, of course, very simple. It's supposed to be very simple, or else it would never appeal to the teenagers in the film. Note that it wasn't just Björk who was mentioned in the opening scene, but also the Beatles; call them what you want, but it's hard to argue they made complicated and deeply meaningful music. Try to see this the other way around - take an average pop song and try to make it suitable to support scenes like the kite flying scene or the end credits of AALCC. The requirement is that it might be considered a pop song, that it might appeal to teenagers, and yet that it has a certain otherworldly sound to it and might be considered at least dreamy enough to allow the listener to forget himself and his own life. I reckon the composers of the songs used in this movie did a pretty damn good job creating a sound that is both simple enough to hit the charts and "ethereal" enough to massively increase the emotional charge of the scenes mentioned.

As always, a certain degree of emotional commitment is needed in order to feel what a movie tries to make you feel. This is easier to do for some of us than others. If you need heavy artillery like Lilya 4-ever to be moved, might I recommend you go watch Sympathy for Mr Vengeance? I guarantee it is a lot less subtle than AALCC and makes no attempt to cover up the horror of its plot - though it is at least equally succesful in making destruction beautiful. Meanwhile, I don't know many teenagers capable of making the necessary emotional commitment to appreciate a film like AALCC, either, so I don't really understand how you can argue that it's clearly aimed to appease them. Rather than requiring grittier stuff, they tend to want to be entertained and entertained only, lining up at the box office for the next Batman movie and expecting nothing but the final victory of the hero. Do you honestly believe they would have patience for AALCC, that they would understand the last line of the film? I strongly doubt it. They simply don't watch movies in the manner that AALCC requires to be appreciated, and apparently neither do you.

________________
"I'm weak, and useless, but I'll stay by your side. I'll protect you."

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Conceited much?

Cheaply bought civil obedience

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"Or... I comprehend what happens AND ( obviously ) with over 300 music CDs I know what music can mean AND I think that the movie is quite terrible"

Hahaha I laughed my ass of after reading this. You, "sir", are a joke!

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Did you bring enough pretentious for the rest of the class?

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