MovieChat Forums > N.Y.H.C. (2008) Discussion > too bad this film maker knows nothing ab...

too bad this film maker knows nothing about NYHC

posted 16 years ago by Brendan3
13 replies | jump to latest

Crappy tough guy metal and krsna bands have nothing to do with NYHC. This director might as well have made a movie about the jazz scene of the 1920's because he has no understanding of the hardcore scene that flourished in NYC.

I don't care that a bunch of goons who call their tough guy crew posturing and brainless metal hardocre... just because they call it hardcore doesn't make it hardcore.

As a veteran of the real NYHC scene, I am utterly embarassed by this film.

oh great... you interviewed a couple of vets like Harley, Jimmy and Vinnie... because thse are the guys you know. Too bad their best information about what hardcore was probably wound up on the editing room floor because you wouldn't have understood it.

This film should have just been called ""(0's toughguy scene" and that would have been okay.
Calling it "NYHC" is ignorant and insulting.

FK this film!

[–] commonist 16 years ago

What do you call real hardcore, then? The ABC No Rio scene?

I don't know a whole lot about the NYHC scene...I know a lot of it looked like macho crap to me, even though I liked a lot of the music, including AF and Leeway and others (although I did literally throw a Murphy's Law cassette out of my car window after listening to a *beep* song about how great Ronald Reagan was)...

...and I know that ABC No Rio sort of developed in opposition to the "Combat Core" and Rock Hotel tough-guy scenes (just from reading MRR at the time). But like I say, I was nowhere near NYC in those days, so I'm pretty ignorant about what all was giong on.

What were some of the bands/people/ideas you think should be included in a real NYHC history?

[–] electric-joy-machine 16 years ago

wow... ive gotta say... you are wrong.

madball, H2O, 25 Ta Life... these guys live, breath, eat, *beep* sleep and embody NYHC.

"toughguy scene" as you put it wouldnt work here. this is before hatebreed, this is before AF got back together and did another voice, hell, this is before the *beep* LEGACY days for madball, this is before the tough-guy core of the later hardcore world (which i still dig mind you)

this is classic nyhc, no doubt about it.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

No. Classic NYHC was in the 80's, particularly the early 80's.
If you think "classic NYHC" is the fake scene of the 90's and all the crews, you obviously weren't there in the 80's.
Just because they call themselves "hardcore" and talk about "hardcore for life" doesn't make them hardcore.
The hardcore that they are referring to has little to do with the real NYHC they like to believe their roots are.
If I stick a clarinet up my butt and call it jazz, just because I call it jazz, doesn't make it so... and just because they call it hardcore and call it a scene doesn't make it so either.

The truly underground subculture of NYHC of the early 80's and the bands that came out of it have little to do with the crews and bad metal of the 90's that called itself hardcore that is documented in this film.

Beyond getting the music wrong, that is what is truly missing from this, as well as most other documentaries that try to exam hardcore... that the early HC scene, more than the music, was such an underground world unto itself... that can not be explained by people who weren't there.

[–] commonist 16 years ago

Brendan...I'm still curious what bands and venues you are referring to.

[–] unclechichi 16 years ago

This film is not a "history of hardcore" but rather just a slice of it, about what was happening in the summer of 1995. To say that it fails because its not about the 1980's is just silly.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

This film is not a "history of hardcore" but rather just a slice of it, about what was happening in the summer of 1995. To say that it fails because its not about the 1980's is just silly.

And that would be fine if this film was titled "Summer of 95" or something like that.
But it's titled "NYHC"
Unfortunately the film presents itself as a documentary of NYHC, which it is not.
The tough guy crews and bad metal featured in this film have nothing to do with NYHC.

The true underground NYHC scene existed in the 1980's so yes, a film presenting itself as a documentary about NYHC should be about what was happening in the 80's.

[–] unclechichi 16 years ago

Well, I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. However, many other people feel that the NYHC scene was still alive in the 90's and is still alive today. I don't think that the term NYHC applies exclusively to the original bands from the 80's.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

I agree that there is still a spirit of NYHC that was still around in the 90's and even today.

I've seen a lot of new kids and a lot of new bands that had their hearts in the right place and had that spirit.

It's just not in this film.

[–] commonist 16 years ago

Brendan...I'm trying to ask what bands you consider to be the "real" 90's hardcore, but you never answer me...do you have me blocked or something?

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

My apologies for not responding earlier.
Your initial question asked about ABC-NO-RIO.
I could write pages about everything that went wrong about ABC-NO-RIO.
I was one of the people that started booking shows at ABC in 1989 as CBGB first closed stopped doing matinees.
There's been a lot of PC revisionism written about the history of hardcore punk at ABC-NO-RIO.

As to new bands in the 90's that were hardcore in both sound and spirit, there were a few that I saw. Kill Your Idols was one.

[–] blend77 16 years ago

I grew up a half hour north of NYC. Nothing about me is tough. But NYHC always had a toughness.

NYHC is how I got into hardcore period. This took place in 1990 and onward until today. Hardcore is my first love and still incredibly important to me.

I am not exactly sure what Brendan is saying. Though I think I can glean some part of what he's frustrated with. NYHC became a tough guy sort of scene with the advent of Madball and 25 Ta Life. But NYHC also took place mostly at CBGB's. I am not sure that the only true NYHC bands are from the early 80's because I think many would agree that the main scene that people think of took place in the mid to late 80's. Bands like Major Conflict, The Stimulators and Urban Waste didnt really make too many waves. And though the Cro-Mags were around earlier they didnt make a splash til 85 with Age of Quarrel.

NYHC to most people, and more importantly to me is bands like Absolution, Leeway, Breakdown, Killing Time, Raw Deal, Youth Of Today, Judge, Gorilla Biscuits, Straight Ahead, Sick of It All, Biohazard (before Urban Punishment, which rules, by the way) and so many others... This was happening around 85-90. Burn even fits on that list and dont forget Beyond. That is NYHC... Born Against could be thrown in there, but NYHC was a sound more than origin. Born Against sounds nothing like all those band and they all sound much more alike.

But NYHC didnt die. It just changed. Bands like Mouthpiece and Rorschach didnt call themselves NYHC even though they were from the same surrounding area. Youth of Today was originally from CT, but they get called NYHC all the time. So it was a sound thing. And those band I listed above even fit that same sound of the earlier bands. So it goes that that is the era that should have been covered. Madball, 25 ta Life... they had a bad rep for some reason, and seeing Freddie and his boys at shows would give you a reason to believe whatever you heard, cuz they were some hard looking dudes. So I can see why people would be upset by them being termed NYHC without paying massive respects to all that went on in the 80's. I mean, the Bad Brains were even NYHC essentially. They released most of their stuff when they were in NYC and they were staple of the scene. To tell a slice of the story isnt necessarily a good reason for a movie, but if this guy wants to make the movie, so be it. Some one else should make a movie and scrounge up all those cats like Mike Ferarro and Gavin VanVlack and Walter Schreifels and get them to tell their stories...

Surely it all seems more glamourous than it really was anyway. NYC was a tough place up until the mid 90's when Giuliani came through and cleaned house.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] 16 years ago

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