A VERY BIG LIE.
The prisioners weren't so "nice guys". They had guns either.
The police didn't cut chains to enter in Carandiru. The doors were opened.
The prisioners atack the policemen.
The prisioners weren't so "humans". The policemen weren't so "monsters".
With the violence in Brasil, nice prisioner it's a death prisioner.
Well... I sense a little of radicalism in your words...
but... It´s all true.
and they are allways claming for human rights to prisioners but who clame these rights to their victims!?
no one was in Carandiru for no reason.
Personally I felt the film tended to exaggerate the amount of mayhem that occured... I mean it seemed like a pogrom.
With bodies littering the halls and people being assassinated left and right I expected at least half the prisoners had been killed by police "suppressing" the riot.
Thus, I must confess I was quite suprised when the end credits rolled and we found out "only" 111 people had died.
Later,
Tom
No one claims that it's true either. The physician says in his final voice-over that he only knows the prisoners' side of the story, and it's their version we hear in the movie. Simple as that.
sharei heard the bullet wounds found on the prisoner's bodies were execution style in the back of the head somewhere...if that's true then that negates the argument of prisoners resisting...i mean, if they're already contained and in a position to be shot execution style, then maybe they shouldn't be shot?
i also heard somewhere there were little to no police casualties at all?
it all just doesn't add up for me...111 dead prisoners, a large portion of them shot execution style...low police casualties...
I have met a policeman who observed the Carandiru massacre... he said that there were more than just 111 corpses.
share
Exactly what somebody said.
The movie does not want to tell exactly 100% what happened, but the doctor vision of it all. And I dont know if you noticed, but the doctor DID have a sympatethic view of the inmates.
- He moves his lips when he reads. What does that tell you about him?
I had a student once, a Brazilian woman in my adult ESL class, who was obviously pretty well off. We got talking about crime around the world, and she burst out on the need for vigilante squads in Brazil to hunt down kids and kill them in the street, in cold blood. "You have to! Otherwise, they're just gonna kill you or rape your mother".
Judging from the OP's tone and spelling, I'd suspect he's in the same camp as my former student. The rich are right, and the poor are wrong, no matter what.
Can't argue with that!
'nuff said.
I completely agree. I'm from Argentina, and, lamentably in my country, the rich have exactly the same idea about the poor.
shareThink what you want... But the appocaliptical things that happenned in Carandiru still happens in smaller proportions in many brazillians prisions.
The prisions in Brazil are really brutal, they are very often named as "Crime Schools", because people get in there criminal and get out totally brutal.
If you want to find out if it's real or not, go to www.folhadesaopaulo.com.br or www.google.com.br and look for "Massacre + Carandiru".
The "third" world didn't get this name for nothing man.
Thats the sad true... Prisions in Brazil are just a disaster...
shareThe fact is the massacre happened so it's not a lie. However you may wanna discussed the interpretation of the director/doctor. The story is being told through the eyes of the doctor and obviously the doctor saw things from the prisoners POV. He said so in the movie. It's worth it to actually listen while watching the images of a movie.
shareIt's not a questions of poor vs. rich people. The person above who mentioned this knows nothing about Brazil -- or about life, for that matter. There are many poor people, in Brazil and in the world, who do not become cold-blooded murderers like the ones in Carandiru.
The fact is that those prisoners got less than they deserved, if you ask me. Most of them deserved to suffer much more than just a bullet in the back of their necks.
As far as I'm concerned you would get just the bullet on the back of the neck. I hate hateful people like you. And I'm a FEAR fan, so I don't care about you.
shareHitler seems to be alive and well and posting on imdb.
shareI find so funny to see people here defending the Brazilian cops like they are honest, clean and good for society. The truth is very different. Most cops are corrupt, they supply drugs and weapons to the drug dealers and once in a while take one down to show face. They are in fact worse criminals than the people in jail and have the state to protect them. They are the result of 35 years of dictatorship that didn't really ended in 1989. Brazil might have free elections, but for as long as the police and politicians such as the governor of Sao Paulo that ordered this disgrace have such absolute power, the country will NOT be a real democracy.
Carandirú was a true tragedy. I am 44 years old and I was old enough to remember reading all the newspapers on the date that it happened. Brazil will never solve criminality until the country doesn't cure its own social diseases such as the huge income disparity, the corrupt judicial system that protects the rich, reform the police, the public school system, stop concentrating the money on a few hands, and clean up congress. A cultural revolution is much needed and unfortunately it might be too late for that. Politicians are not interested in changing anything for as long as they can profit with it. And the people, the citizens of Brazil, who have the real power to make such change, are starting to think like the few idiots that pester on these boards...
[deleted]
I don't agree with you mlaw09
The prisoners weren't armed with any kind of gun. All the things that the prisoners get must pass through the jail keepers, and letting a gun slip into Carandiru was very risky for the jail keeper and for his mates.
The prisoners were locked inside the building and when the Riot Squad announced that they were entering the building, EVERYONE retreated to their cells. It was clear that the prisoners didn't want to fight with the Riot Squad, because they could do nothing to a small but very disciplinated Squad with extensive military training.
The only thing the prisoners did was to put obstacles in their way, like emptying oil cans to make the stairs slippery. Actually, some of them later admitted that they were victims of their own trap, because a lot of prisoners fell off the stairs during the evacuation. (so there WEREN'T ANY CASUALTIES IN THE SQUAD SIDE)
The Squad intention was simple: put fear into the prisoners. So they sought to kill those who were "important" to the prison, like the "janitors" (they've announced the "janitors" destiny when the Squad arrived at their floor, but they got in the wrong sde of the gallery, so they killed the wrong ones by mistake).
Neither side were good. But the Squad did act incorrectly, so that's why the head of the squad got condemned for his actions.
The violence in Brazil won't end by killing the criminals. If you read the book correctly, it has one suggestion for recovering those criminals to reintegrate them into the society.
Actually, I think the stupid ones like you, mlaw09, should die. You don't have any clue of what are you talking about and your kind don't do any good to Brazil, since it's your kind's fault that Brazil has so many corrupt occupying the Government and so many "high rank" crimes (money laundering, and other things that a slum dweller can't do) go unpunished.
bye
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
PRESS RELEASE
AI Index: AMR 19/006/2006 (Public)
News Service No: 042
16 February 2006
Brazil: Carandiru ruling – a shock to the human rights community
Brazil’s criminal justice system has failed to uphold international human rights standards, allowing grave human rights violations to go unpunished, said Amnesty International after São Paulo’s state Supreme Court annulled Col. Ubiratan Guimarães’ conviction and absolved him of responsibility for the 1992 massacre in the Carandiru prison.
According to initial reports the state Supreme Court annulled the original conviction and absolved Col. Guimarães on the grounds that he was acting strictly in line with his duties.
Amnesty International is extremely concerned that this ruling contravenes international human rights standards. The ruling appears to accept that the commanding officer has strictly complied with his duties even when failing to prevent excessive use of force by the police officers under his command.
In its 1993 report on the Carandriu massacre, Amnesty International identified numerous ways in which the chain of command failed to ensure that excessive use of force was avoided during the operation. These included: ignoring international codes of practice on the use of force and firearms; allowing military police to enter the prison with their identity tags removed; and sending in police units with past records of multiple fatal shootings to quell the disturbance.
“In the light of this ruling nobody has been held responsible for the 111 deaths in the Carandiru prison 13 years ago. This is an affront to the victims and their relatives and sends the message that excessive use of force is acceptable in policing operations,” said Tim Cahill Amnesty International’s researcher on Brazil.
Amnesty International awaits the opportunity to examine the decision made by the state’s most senior judges.
Public Document
****************************************
For more information please call Amnesty International's press office in London, UK, on +44 20 7413 5566
Amnesty International, 1 Easton St., London WC1X 0DW. web: http://www.amnesty.org
For latest human rights news view http://news.amnesty.org
Hahaha fantastic joke.
It is impossible to reintegrate wild animals to society, wild animals should be sacrificied not reintegrate.
What do you do with a dog that bitens everybody?
You kill it.
Why shouldnt you do the same with an uncontrollable human being that kills and rapes everybody?
Criminals should be killed, that is the right way to control criminality, anything else is pure sillyness
all the prisioners that died on that day, almost were "people" that deserved the needle, they werent humans...
mostly were killed on a block, the block almost had only rapers, serial killers, child killers, people that nobody visited from years and years...
so a movie about the "police violence" is shown, but the real monsters not, on that *beep* movie they are "victims" of the police force
brazilian prisions are safe now, but the monsters not... a lot of "human" rights organizations seems to defend criminals, and mostly ones are associations of criminal lawyers
one thing i know, when a raper or drugdealer is killed by a cop, specialy when the one is a nminor, a lot of "human rights" lawyers want the cop´s head, but thoose same organizations dont show up when a victim needs suport for rape, when a family needs suport when a family member is killed by a criminal, but criminals, they hava access to human-rights, because according to the rats(human rights lawyers) they are "victims of the society", but the real victims not...
Thank you cristiano-orlando, for putting into words these very crucial, and often ignored, sentiments.
shareWhat are the courts for?
Don't you have judges, lawyers and courts in Brazil?
Cops are not to decide who stays alive and who not.
In the civilized world, there is the separation of powers.
A democratic society has to accept this.
Heck, why even build prisons? Shoot every criminal! It's much cheaper.
I hope that such medieval thoughts are not the standard in brazil.
But look at some of the people in the Prison like Deusdete... Killing the two who raped his sister and getting the same punishment as many hardcore murderers who kill for less justified reasons.
shareI think there is no justification for any kind of murder, especially not to save someones honour. He may not have been a common criminal like the others, but he took the lives of two men. They may have been bad but they were people, too.
Isn't a killing of scum like them as cruel as killing an ordinary citizen?
Grosser Baer, although I understand you, I don't agree. My cousins ex girlfriend was rapped and she is a completely different person now. She came home, went straight to her room crying with ripped clothes and a bloody nose. Now she's in theropy 4 times a week and doesn't want anything to do with anybody of the male sex. A rappist took her virginity and a whole mental piece of her, and I know my cousin would kill him if the opportunity was there.
shareas far as I can tell, the first guy he killed was in self defense, however, he chased down the second guy, waited for him to come out of hiding and ambushed him and shot the guy. I'm guessing that is why he is in prison.
shareHuman rights advocates do not negate or deny the suffering inflicted by those that they sometimes protect. However, their goal is to try to protect and improve the conditions of those whom nobody else looks after or cares for. And while the actions of the people on the block are despicable, and if caught in the act, killing them would be justifiable. However, an execution style killing implies a neutralized victim, and it is not ok for law enforcement to make the decision to end somebody's life if they are not a direct threat to those around them. The state has come to a decision about how long they should be punished for their crimes, and as agents of the state, law enforcement must honor that decision, otherwise the whole idea behind the legal system and law enforcement is being corrupted.
shareWhy should SOMEBODY CARE FOR A WILD ANIMAL THAT KILLS HUMAN BEINGS??
OR A WILD ANIMALS THAT RAPES HUMAN BEINGS?
If ''human(wild animals) ''rights advocates are defending those wild animals they should be locked together with their loves.
*beep* the wild animals and *beep* the wild animals advocates, in a perfect society all of those would be locked for eternity.