MovieChat Forums > Iluminados por el fuego (2005) Discussion > The Argentine conscript army was not emp...

The Argentine conscript army was not employed effectively

posted 14 years ago by jeffyoung1
13 replies | jump to latest

I can't be accused of pro-British bias since this movie is filmed by Argentines. It confirms the widely held view that the Argentine conscript army could have proven deadlier to the British expeditionary force, had the Argentine generals been more militarily competent and more aggressive. You can see in the movie that the Argentine soldier is adequately dressed, equipped, and armed. The movie appears to insinuate that supplies in the way of food rations were scant and inadequate. But this was well-known after the war. The Argentine people can be proud of their conscript (draftees) citizen army but still disdain the inept way their generals deployed or failed to properly deploy their soldiers aggressively against the British. The Argentine commanders, as this movie depicts, chose to deploy their military forces passively in ground and hillside dugouts and wait for the British soldiers to come to them. Perhaps this underscores the Argentinian commanders' lack of confidence in themselves and their soldiers. But my view is that had the Argentinian soldiers been ordered to attack en masse and well-coordinated against the British army before it had a chance to organize itself on the beaches, in well-timed night attacks, then history would have been different. I don't have the military expertise here to speculate whether Argentina could have won by seizing the initiative and forcefully attacking the still unorganized British landing forces. But I am certain the war would have been severely prolonged with casualties much higher on both sides. Military historians speculate that had the Argentinian military government been resolute and its field commanders determined, Argentina might have won the war by attrition. The British military supply line, vastly over-stretched and underequipped, was close to collapse. But this crucial bit of classified information was not made public until long after the war.

This movie also excoriates small unit leadership. I don't want to stereotype the Argentinian NCOs and junior officers because I wasn't there. This movie is based on two middle-aged Argentinian men's Falklands experience when both were 20 years old. They were unfortunate to be saddled with an incompetent platoon leader lieutenant whose idea of effective leadership was to shout insults and berate his men, instead of bolstering their morale and looking to their physical welfare. It didn't help that the Argentinian lieutenant made his quarters in a small, dry, heated wooden shack while his men froze and starved in the damp, freezing hillside dugouts. The lieutenant's platoon sergeant is depicted as neurotic, borderline psychotic with a sadistic touch. Some Brits would later sneer that such incompetence was a result of the social class consciousness ingrained in Central and South American cultures and the total lack of professional military leadership it engendered. Whether this is true or not I cannot say, but this movie, made by Argentines, scorches Argentinian military incompetence at all levels.

In hindsight it was fortunate for Argentina and the U.K. that the Falklands War ended as quickly as it did, even if it meant defeat for one side. A prolonged conflict degenerating into attrition would have had more detrimental lasting geopolitical consequences for both nations affecting others as well.

For the Brits, the Falklands War proved a turning point in their nation's history. On the brink of becoming the 'sick man of Europe' in 1982, victorious Great Britain would emerge re-energized, self-confident and empowered sufficiently to tackle its own formidable internal political and economic problems. As a result, the much speculated Franco-German confederation that would have dominated western Europe and NATO never materialized. In the early 21st century, Great Britain remained the most powerful and prestigious nation in western Europe. So re-vitalized was Great Britain after 1982 that the alarmed Soviet government had to quietly but quickly revise its Warsaw Pact war plans for western Europe, redeploying military forces away from the Americans to reinforce Warsaw Pact forces deployed against the British Army of the Rhine.

[–] argento100 12 years ago

Hi, im glad to read some anglospeaker talking with this respect. I just know 2 british Malvinas War veterans in an Argentine Military Forum, they talk with so much respect and share their info and photos with our veterans soldiers and oficers in the forum, their former enemys.

I will talk to you somethings about the Malvinas War.

The Operation was never planed to a full war, the military goverment expect United States hold UK throught the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance, wich rejected any interference of non Americans countrys in Americas territories. They were thinking wrong.
After the ovation of the Argentine Population and no answers from USA the goverment has to think they will go to war. Anyway, they still thinking until too late times USA will talk and UK never dare to come. 'Cause that the most Argentine Army units were conscripts with 2 months of training, the war was in a wrong time just in the clases rotation, the '62 class were very much trained.
Also, the Junta save the professional forces in the continent fearing Chile attack Argentine throught Mendoza Province an Tierra del Fuego Islands. As a worst things, the conscripts goes from subtropical places and not from cold territory units, wichones stay in continent too.
Only the 5th Marine Infantry of the Argentinean Navy were propared to the cold cause they were from most austral Argentine location. They are a legend today in Argentina 'cause the fought the british forces after the general rendition signed by the troops commanders.

5BIM fought until the 16 of June(rendition 14), they made the bristish forces retreat, shoot down an helicopter. 16 they accorded stop fighting 'cause they were without munition and then they came marching to Port Stanley, with their weapons, Argentina flag and singing the national anthem. Today they are known as "the sapper hill crazyz".

As you know the war was bad executed, the Argentine Air Force must prepar to a war in 2 weeks.

Also you say the no Argentine attacks against forces. Thats is true, was a total negligence from the Island Forces Central Command, lieutenant general Benjamín Menendez and Argentinean people questioned that as a Armed Forces investigaton about the war did.

About the oficers leaders, thoose thing were exceptions, not rule, but in Argentine is an goverment ofensive against the Armed Forces and an attemp to fall down the national proud. They hide all information wich could make people see the war as other way, anything wich could teach the people lots of examples of personal sacrifices and camaraderie.

The movie is based in a book wrotte by an former conscripts who lives in england and is married with an english woman. This guy leaved his position and made a commrade die, he urinated on and pretend to be in a nervous breakdown to leave the islands before English landing. You can see whats is about this movie then.
His own partner in his units, as the Veterans of Malvinas War center rejected the book and the movie.
The goverment forced to the Argentine Army to participed in te movie with elements and fired off officers who claim the movie is faking facts and has no historic value. Even after they share the documentation were the writter is envolved by insubordination, treat officers and pretended be in a nervous breakdown.

Other things about the war:

The new german submarine U-209 ARA San Juan was under the British fleet in the war and fired torpedos 3 times. British never could reach the sub, being the most antisubmarine force of the NATO. Unfortunately the SST-4 wireguided german torpedos didnt work cause the wire was cuted by the change of salinity in the water. The Argentinean Navy technics fix this problem but was too late. After the war Germans came to Argentina and take the technics to Germany to teach em how we fix it.

50% of the bombs didnt exploted cause it has no time arm the expolet. It was british Mk-17 bomb, all was returned to their makers with much love.
In the war the Military Factorys developed new bombs to do this job, but it was too late too.

We had just a few cruise missiles and all was used well. Also the Navy developed a coastal missile launcher wich a scientific calculator, a trailer and ship to ship missiles.

For the naval block to our fleet all the amunitions and food was delivery by air, they never could reach our planes in this task, as our refueling air tankers. So the food and ammo was no much.

British used a long range 105 cannon and our 105 otto melara was a short range cannons. Only 4 of 20 long range 155 mm Argentine Citer cannons was delivered to the island and it made the british figrates stop their night attacks to our positions, also it slow the british attack

British forces harassed the trucks wich reach the food to the troops, they were lots of rations boxes (2 per day per soldier) that could not be delivered to the troops. Sometimes the sargents could bring some food to the troop delivering on foot.

Most of the officers did take care about its troops, and today they still meeting em, you can see videos of it in youtube and see wasnt so bad realtionship between officers and soldiers.

The most errors was from the commander in the islands wich wasted troops and dont had much incentive. Field officers claimed several times suplies, reinforcements and attacks that were never autorized.
Also the Junta never see the real situation and never answer to the island commander for all the supplis hes ask. They were thinking until was too late US with help...

greetings and cya.

PD: sorry bout my bad english, hope you understand what i'd say.

[–] neamtzu_rau 12 years ago

You know , when I look at this movie I think about the Argentine army at the time, kinda like Romanian army today.
All boast, all talk, all show but for the soldier on the ground, no respect is shown.
I don't know, must be a Latin thing to despise the lower classes or something. I for one, think that the Argentines in each documentary I've seen about the Falklands (or Malvinas, the name makes no difference to me, there's still barren pieces of rock on which men died) I see the soldiers are well-equip and well-armed.
Why didn't they give the Brits a bloody Omaha beach and waited for them to go inland, I will never know. All the blame is with those pompous generals.
They even say something in the movie , about patriotism, something like Stand! Stand like a brave Argentinian soldier!
What's the nation got to do with the tactical situation? IF there are bullets flying, hell, I'll fall on my belly, as a proud Romanian and save my ass and MAYBE just maybe, get to live to be useful when the main attack comes.
It's like those generals wanted to prove a point to the world like saying
"See? We're brave because we die where we stand"
That's why armies get encircled in the first place. Lack of mobility and lack of strategic foresight.
Or, excuse me, the Brits had plenty of those two.
And to think they came all this way, just to kick Argentine ass, the trip alone is an achievement in itself.
The Brits made their mistakes too. But Argentinian HQ never took advantage of those. Like OP said " Why wait for the enemy to come to you?"

I think if Argentina acted like Israel acted in it's many wars against the Arab invaders, today the islands would've been called Malvinas.
And what's the big deal anyway about those islands, man?
It's all a matter of national ego.
You can't grow plants on those islands, you can't build cities or factories on those islands, it's all about the name of the place, more than the actual utility of the place.
Anyway, don't mean to step on any toes here, so that's just my opinion.

And I care for both sides of the conflict. Strangely, it's the only conflict in history where I'm with both sides at the same time.

signature :

...something deep and overwhelming...

[–] argento100 12 years ago

You're right in the point of the fight. Argentina could fight em while they were landing, in fact, Argentine field officers ask for it several times, but de commander of the islands just call air strikes.
An unit did attack de british while they were landing, they discovered em, they use their recoilless 105 cannon and then they were attacked by helicopter. THey take cover in a abandoned house a resist a good time, even shoting down with FAL rifles fire the helo.

Was a big estrategic error from the top of the officials in the islands HQ and the South Atlantic Operations Treatry HQ in the continent.

About whats the matter with the islands. Is proud, is our identity, is our land, and is hard to see it invaded and colonized by a foreing empire. You have to know than british crown invaded Buenos Aires 2 times in 1806 and 1807, end they received a kick ass from the people of the city and the local militians due the no spanish forces in the region. More late in our history UK sed two naval expeditionary forces to broke our goverment and force to the young country to open our rivers and trade with em by force. Argentine forces face it in the Paraná River in an heroic fight remembered in Argentina as a sacrifice in defense of our sovereign. The first fight was lost but the anglofrench force was rejectd in every town and city until they were faced again and defeated.

In 1833 they return to Malvinas (they were expulsed by Spain, the former owner of this lands and who gave it in our independence). They expulsed by force the governor and workers of the islands claiming it to your funny majesty.

As you see there is an historyc antagonism and several act of attack form UK against Argentina throught the history wich made the Argentine people be very recelous from the english.

Sorry my bad english too, lol. hope you can understand what i said.

[–] neamtzu_rau 12 years ago

Yes, but from what I heard, at the time the Argentinians landed, there were only English living on the Melvinas.
So the roles of the invaded, invader were reversed

signature :

...something deep and overwhelming...

[–] argento100 12 years ago

They are english living in a colony, a country cant invade himself. It never reversed, they are invaders, is a colony (United Nations Decolonitation Commite dixit).

Is our land, no matter the target of the government, it was a recovered of an invaded land. It's what our Constituion demands, neither 1 cm can be separated of the country never. It just is an invaded ground, so any country have the right to expulse the invader.

The Malvinas Islands ever will be Argentines, here is teached, is in the maps, in publications, in everything, is part of one of our provinces invaded for a violent foreign empire. Argentina will never left the Islands, late or soon our flag will could return to flame in its territory wich now is guarding by more of 600 soldiers who left their blood and lives defending their home, their fatherland, their identity.

BTW, the Island has strategic value due their position to control maritime trafic, fish explotation, oil extraction and a militar base of a decadent empire who still thinking this is the 17th century and they can still pieces of territorys to other weak countrys. The pirate empire want the islands, too, because it will be a platform to colonize the Antartic continent when the antartic treaty finish. Portion of the white continent wich we claimed before em and we have lots of bases, historic presence and citizens in there (we have more people and bases that all the other countrys together) and our Navy is wich give international support to ships and foreing bases.

As we said The Malvinas Argentinas yesterday, today and ever. We shall return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_of_the_Malvinas

[–] xxhelterskelterxx 12 years ago

The islands were British before Argentina even existed as an independent nation. If any nationality is native to the islands, it's the French and British, and they settled there peacefully long before Spain did. The shameless indoctrination of children in Argentina cannot change reality. The islands are British, for now, and a long is the islanders wish it so. Britain isn't going to abandon the islands and their people to the imperialist aspirations of Argentina any time soon. Also, while Argentina might not respect the human right to self-determination, the same cannot be said for the rest of the world, particularly the UN.

[–] argento100 12 years ago

Is funny you call us imperialist when you are it... You are an empire, your won crown call itself as empire...

Is not adoctrination, is history, we dont need the state adoctrine no one 'cause the mos ancient historic papers who supports its are not from Argentina, are from Spain and France, so your arguement of adoctrination es wrong.

Anyway, why we are adoctinated and you not, we said the same of you, you are adoctrinate in a false proud of old lost victorys of a decadent and minor empire. We laugh of british cause you buy all your crown BS and you are proud of being second calss citizens, you like be a thing under property of your queen...
We see you, in that aspect as the yankees see you, we laugh of you for be a monarchy and see your people be proud of the old empire lories, when your own people was sended to die and massacre other people around the world. Is what the world think about you, you are the only who think you are right en everything, you are hated around the world, not the people, your crown and your politics. We are sorry for you being fools who follow with blindness all interest of the aristocrats and some big companys.-

[–] xxhelterskelterxx 12 years ago

Is funny you call us imperialist when you are it... You are an empire, your won crown call itself as empire...

You're confused. All of Britain's territories are dependencies by choice. Unlike the scenario which Argentina wishes to inflict on the Falkland islanders by denying them their human right to self-determination.

Is not adoctrination, is history, we dont need the state adoctrine no one 'cause the mos ancient historic papers who supports its are not from Argentina, are from Spain and France, so your arguement of adoctrination es wrong.

The islands were first claimed and inhabited by the British in 1765, years before the Spanish were ever there. Also, Britain had re-established it's presence their after Spain had left, and before Argentina existed as a nation state. Meaning you could not have inherited the islands from Spain.

If you want a history lesson though, we could always talk about how your ancestors stole you land, and committed genocide on the natives...

Anyway, why we are adoctinated and you not, we said the same of you, you are adoctrinate in a false proud of old lost victorys of a decadent and minor empire. We laugh of british cause you buy all your crown BS and you are proud of being second calss citizens, you like be a thing under property of your queen...

Again, more ignorance on your part. The monarchy in Britain has no power, just like the monarchy in Spain has no power. They're figureheads, the Queen represents us, and around 30% of the world's population in the form of the Commonwealth. We're a much freer, liberal and civilized country than Argentina is.

[quote]We see you, in that aspect as the yankees see you, we laugh of you for be a monarchy and see your people be proud of the old empire lories, when your own people was sended to die and massacre other people around the world. Is what the world think about you, you are the only who think you are right en everything, you are hated around the world, not the people, your crown and your politics. We are sorry for you being fools who follow with blindness all interest of the aristocrats and some big companys.- [quote]

As opposed to what? The backward, third-world country like Argentina? I think you'll find that the US probably hold more reverence for the UK than it does for just about everyone, and the British claim to the Falklands has far more support worldwide than the ludicrous Argentine one does.

[–] argento100 12 years ago

UN Decolonization Commite has the Islands under colony status, due there is no native population the self determination doesnt aply.
Read the resolutions 1514, 2065 and 3160. 2065 is the most important resolutions giving the colony status to the Islands by 94 possitive votes and 14 abstentions. Calling to UK to negociate directly with Argentina and denying any selfdetermination issue.
American States Organization is against the presence of UK in the continent due its is a trety to the liberty of the American Countrys.

US now only recognizes the De Facto administration over the islands of UK, no any sovereignty. They call to UK to talk with Argentina i reject selfdetermination.

Like you or not, the Islands ar considered by all the world as british colony, and it is for all American Countrys and for United Nations.

how you came back to the islands when Spain left and Argentina did born yet?. De may Revolution was in May 25th of 1810 and the Independence Act was July 9th of 1816, recognized by UK crown and it have the islands as part of the territory...

If you want history leasons y remember you how your colones massacre nortamerican natives. The Opio war and the abuse against China, the millions of people killed in India and the violent repression with fire guns against Gandhi and its pacefull protestes. Or the aparteid in Southafrica or the colonization by force and slave of Africa, your big slaves commerce or the destruction os arabs califats and monarchys to take the oil. Or the Suez channel were even US was in opossiton to you.

If you want history abouts the indians in Argentina go study it and you will learn than the Desert Conquest finished a chilenian army of indians who was attacking the original tribes in patagony and destroying towns, farms, stealing, killing the childrens in the south frontiers and kidnaping the womans. Even the local tribus join the Argentine Army under command of Gral (and later President) Roca. The campaign lets to Argentina recover control of the south and finished the terror raids of this chilenian indians, avoiding the patagonia turns to Chile.

You are proud of you monarchy, you are proud of being part of an empire, doesnt matter if you vote now. You have the lords chamera and que "common" chamera, you are common, the lords keep owning your country they have the economic power. And thats is only cause your monarchy didnt want to face the guillotine as the French did, but luck to the world, it could be a better world if the guillotine passed for that islands.

The world id ONE. And anyway we are not "third-World", we are not africans poor countrys, we are a Nation-State, we have the most important middle clash by population in LatinAmerican, the most important book plublications and readers level, an excellent Universitys. Here is all the facilities and factorys that a "third world subdeveloped country dont have". We build jet fighters when brazil flight yankees I WW airplanes. The correct term could be in process of development. We are more like US than even Mexico or any african state. You are the ignorant and prejudiced. For sure you think all argentines are like mexican with mustaches and brown skins, notice you the most part of the population is white grandsons of spaniard, italians, frenchs, wales inmigrants, scotchs, germans, austrians, russians, polish, turks. You can see in the pictures of the war a many brown skins cause they were from the north of the country were they white population mixed with natives, but you will see a lot of pictures (even taked by british publications) with blue eyes and blonde soldiers.

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United Nations. General Assembly

Mindful that the peoples of the world have proclaimed in the Charter of the United Nations are determined to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small and to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom.

Aware of the need to create conditions of stability and well-being and peaceful and friendly relations based on respect for the principles of equal rights and self determination of all peoples, and to ensure universal respect for human rights and freedoms fundamental to all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion, and the effectiveness of such rights and freedoms.

Recognizing the passionate yearning for freedom in all dependent peoples and the decisive role of such peoples in the attainment of independence.

Aware of the increasing conflicts resulting from the denial of freedom to these people or to prevent it, which constitutes a grave threat to world peace.

Considering the important role for the United Nations in assisting the movement for independence in Trust Territories Non-Self.

Recognizing that the world's people fervently desire the end of colonialism in all its manifestations.

Convinced that the continued existence of colonialism prevents the development of international economic cooperation, impedes the social, cultural and economic development of dependent peoples and militates against the ideal of universal peace of the United Nations.

Affirming that peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to the obligations resulting from international economic cooperation, based on the principle of mutual benefit, and international law.

Believing that the process of liberation is irresistible and irreversible, in order to avoid serious crises, we must put an end to colonialism and all practices of segregation and discrimination associated therewith.

Welcoming the emergence in recent years many dependent territories into freedom and independence, and recognizing the increasingly powerful trends towards freedom in such territories are not yet attained independence.

Convinced that all peoples have an inalienable right to complete freedom, the exercise of the sovereignty and integrity of its territory.

Solemnly proclaims the necessity of ending quickly and unconditionally to colonialism in all its forms and manifestations.

And to this end states that:

1._ The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, naming and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is the cause of peace and global cooperation

2._ All peoples have the right to self determination, by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3._ The lack of preparation in the political, economic, social or educational preparedness should serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

To 4._ dependent peoples to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence stop all armed action all sorts of repressive measures of all kinds directed against them, and shall respect the integrity of its territory.

5._ in the Trust Territories and Non-Self in all other territories which have not yet attained independence should be taken immediately to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with his will and freely expressed, without distinction of race, creed or color, to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6._ Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7._ All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-intervention in internal affairs other states and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

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[–] xxhelterskelterxx 12 years ago

Your reference points contradict your own argument. The original native population of the Falklands is British (and French), the former being reinstated after Spanish rule, and Argentine invasions. 'Alien subjugation' is exactly the scenario which Argentina is trying to impose on the people of the islands. That's the reason the islands are British. In an ideal world they could be independent, but the untrustworthy Argentines have made that impossible, by enshrining imperialism into their constitution. Britain doesn't subjugate the islands, they're British by choice. It is Argentina which tries to steal land and oppress it's people.

Thanks for the comments about Britain by the way, the ignorance of them gave me a great laugh at your expense. The regime in your country has done an excellent job in distracting you from their corruption. You do realise that they don't care about the islands... right? If they did, they'd be spending their time trying to better relations with the islanders, not provoking and antagonising them at every turn. Your government desperately needs the islands to stay British, because then every time they have a domestic issue that they need to go away, they can make some noise about the Falklands and everyone will turn their heads.

The islands were British before they were Argentine, or even Spanish. They have been British for 200 years since. The people there are British who want us to protect them, and by good fortune seem to be sitting on some serious resources which only makes the decision easier. Britain has the most advanced anti-aircraft/anti-ballistic destroyer on the planet stationed in the South Atlantic. It could take out the entire Argentine air force before it reached the islands, and our submarine fleet that could take out Argentina's entire military on the ground. Do you seriously think your politicians are genuine about believing they can achieve something? That they can steal the islands?

It's all a smoke screen, and you're behaving exactly how they want you to behave.

[–] argento100 12 years ago

I dont like this gov, i know they are using it as cover due the corruption and economy starting problems of this "modell". But you have to understand Argentinians have in their minds Malvinas always, me and other peoples watch this issue always, is no matter the gov. We dont care the govs, all are the same lier *beep*

Your gov is using this problem to distract british for the economic problems and the adjust of economy too, please dont tell me you didnt realized that.

The history you were teached and you gov show to you is very diferent that the history is teached in Spain, France, Brasil and Argentina, even in a so close allied to you as Chile. All the same history, only your is diferent. Is all the worl wrong and you the only right?, some self criticism is not bad.

You are wrong about the imperialism, Argentina is a Republic based on the Men Rights and the French Revolution, with US inspiration. The imperialism is antagonist to us. You must understand htat Malvinas is for Argentina part of our territory invaded by an agressive foreign empire. Is a colony, as it is for all the world, dont matter how you like to disguise it, for the United Nations, Malvinas is a Bristish colony and this situation must be solved based on the Decolonization Commite resolutions who follow the end of all the colonys in the world.
For Argentina you were expulsed by Spain, we take it after independende and you came back in 1833, even this act is in US 1800's documents due the USS Lexington actions. So for US there was argentine autoritys before 1833 in the islands (they attacked it) but you keep saying you have the only truth of the world and denying that fact. So we have it as and invaded land, is ours, and our constitution does not allow the loss or separation of one cm of our territory. As an inmigrants country our contitution recognizes the freedon and egalitè of all people in the world, the freedom of language, of teaching, of commerce, of work, of religion. So we dont want to recover the islands and kick the kelpers, they can stay and keep living as they want, or can go the the continental Argentina and study (in fact there is several kelpers married and studying in Argentina). Our constitution gives the nationality to every who worn in our lands, as Malvinas is an invaded land the kelpers are taked for Argentina as Argentine citizens, they just dont have the Identity card (2 kelpers take the Argentine Identity Documents in the las years, search it in Youtube).

You cant steal your own land. Thats the problems, you dont understand the Argentine position. And just to notive you, im opponent to this and prevs govs, my commitment with Malvinas is higer than any goverment, it is a national cause without political colors, religious barriers, a distinction of poor or rich or anything else. It is a national cause without disagreements.
I know very well whats this govs is trying to do, just we hope some usefull left after this, my ideas about how to face the Malvinas problem are more bigger and sofisticated than this just empty words form the govs of the botox bitch.

Is just matter of time, a long time.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Jenks0001 12 years ago

I wouldn't waste your time mate. They've been brainwashed to believe this crap since they were in school, you're not going to shake it in an IMDb convo.