could hang a little girl like that? i was so appauled by that scene. I know it's only fiction but whoever wrote that scene is disturbed.
other than that i thought this movie was kinda cheesy but the atmosphere was beyond awesome
To the disturbed part of your comment - not necessarily.
If you're a writer and you're sitting there thinking, "What could I do to really get the audience going?" Then that's what you do. Children and animals are always hot buttons for people, and if you want them to react the right way to the movie/book/whatever, then you press the right buttons.
Actually, you might be surprised at how normal most horror writers are (I know three, all published, and all really excellent people).
"I shall slip unnoticed through the darkness like a dark, unnoticable slippy thing."
makes sense to me, thx icewolf. i wish they made more movies about haunted ships haha
shareAgreed.
I'm trying to write a book right now. It's probably never going to be published, but my mind is working along the lines of "How do I get the audience to HATE the antagonist?" It isn't by having him run through a field of daisies playing a mandolin. It's by doing something similar to what is described above. I've never seen the movie so can't comment on the scene, but my gut reaction is that the author of that scene WANTED a reaction... and clearly got it.
SpiltPersonality
This. :-)
shareHowever, it is a possibility that she hung herself and committed suicide after the horror she witnessed during the Captain’s Ball. She also observed people with machine guns slaughtering people. I tend to believe she hung herself, ever noticed she was in the closet? Perhaps she wanted to hide herself.
shareShe didn't hang herself: The reason she couldn't be "Collected," is because she hadn't sinned. That's why is was so important that everyone kill each other. They were all involved and they all sinned. Therefore they could all be collected.
share[deleted]
I think the crew members raped her, after which they either hanged her, or just as likely she hanged herself. Watch again and look how the door to her cabin closes on the scene that is about to unfold. Everyone else is killed publicly. She is the only one who merits private treatment. Personally I appreciate the way in which the assault is hinted at, i.e. we do not have graphic scenes rammed down our throats.
shareI don't think she was raped..since her dress was pretty intact on her skeleton body...either they were the nicest rapist and didn't wanna destroy her dress...or they just hung her...i guess the reason they didn't wanna show her dying is cause of the fact that she was a kid and you hardly see kids getting hanged in movies back than...well not any i remember seeing
shareShe was raped in the original script but I don't tend to think that's what happened in the movie. I think they were in a rush to wipe out everyone.
shareAgreed. The conspirators were in a hurry to kill everyone and secure the gold.
The original draft of "Chimera" was a significantly different story from the final version of Ghost Ship. The high school age "Katie" in Chimera showed little resemblance to the innocent, young elementary school age Katie in Ghost Ship.
Katie said that since she was the only child on board that she received "special care." It is natural for adults to be protective of children and if you look closely at the DVD you can see several people trying to help Katie, much to the annoyance of the 2 evil stewards who eventually hang her.
Also, there is a note from the ship's purser and Francesca left for Katie on a table in her cabin inviting Katie and her doll to join them in the dinning area. This indicates that even some of the conspirators were trying to spare her life and keep her away from the lethal cable incident.
Notice that out of hundreds murdered on the ship that only Katie's remains were left undisturbed. The 2 evil stewards who killed her knew they were murdering an innocent child and tried to conceal her body behind the partitioning door of her cabin (which makes great dramatic effect when Epps finds her remains).
Finally, why would the contemptible murderers waste time assaulting a young child when the ship was full of sultry women? As already stated, Katie's taffeta & organza dress was left perfectly undisturbed even after 40 years.
could hang a little girl like that? i was so appauled by that scene. I know it's only fiction but whoever wrote that scene is disturbed.
other than that i thought this movie was kinda cheesy but the atmosphere was beyond awesome
^^This. That was a pretty fvcked up scene.
"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit' me!" Hudson in Aliens.
In the original script, Katie is described as being "about 16" and she is raped by the mutineers, then killed with an axe - all in front of her father, who is made to watch.
In the final script the Katie character was made even younger, and the method of her death was changed to hanging, but the basic gist of what happened to her will have remained the same: she was raped and then killed by the mutineers.
Obviously the filmmakers couldn't (and wouldn't) show that happening to a child, but it's still fairly clear what happened to her. The rape is implied by the shot of the mutineers taking her into the cabin and closing the door on the viewer. The choice of hanging as the mutineer's method of killing her doesn't make much practical sense (too slow, and too much trouble for men in a hurry to bother rigging up) so I would say that particular choice was dictated by film-making needs.
With the film-makers unable to show the actual rape and murder of a child, the film needed to communicate two vital pieces of information to the audience in that brief glimpse of the skeletal remains: 1) that the corpse is Katie's (the distinctive dress provides that recognition), and 2) that she was murdered in that room (the fact that her corpse is seen hanging provides that).
Why such an appalling fate for Katie? Well, that's down to the "rules" of ghost stories in general, i.e. that for a person to become a ghost there must have been a great wrong done to them; something too terrible for them to be able to "pass on" without there first being some kind of resolution - if not revenge, then just for someone living to know and understand the story of what happened.
This is a very sensitive issue, especially in light of the horrendous events at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown Connecticut.
Over the past several years there have been numerous posts concerning Katie relating to the horrific suffering and evil she endured. Like others previously stated, it never even crossed my mind that the film was trying to imply the young child was assaulted. If this was the true intent of the writers, they certainly could have made a much stronger implication. I base this view within the whole context of the story and from the plethora of extra information surrounding the film located on the Ghost Ship webpage, in addition to the extra features of the special edition DVD. The first spec script for “Chimera” bears little resemblance to the final "Ghost Ship" characters and story.
My contention is this issue getting blown out of proportion in comparison to the bigger picture. Just as with the children in Newton Connecticut, the bottom line is an innocent child was cruelly murdered by evil people. With all the media frenzy surrounding Newtown, it will likely influence depraved others to carry out similar “copy cat” killings. Therefore, why allow the mind wander so drastically concerning such a minor, ambiguous issue within the story and thereby risk sowing sadistic ideas into people’s heads?
The once elegant and decaying ship is a symbol of changing times. In a similar manner, Katie can be viewed as a symbolic representation of childhood from a more innocent era. Just as the ship decays to ruin from its glorious 1950’s splendor, Katie’s deteriorating childhood possessions and even Katie herself, are evocative symbols of changing times and eroding childhood innocence. In this manner, not only has the innocence of the children in Newtown been lost, but the innocence of childhood everywhere has suffered an excruciating blow.
Generally speaking, 1962 was still a very safe, wholesome and innocent time to grow up… That was until events such as the Cuban missile crisis, assignation of JFK and the advent of vicious social/political upheavals began to gnaw away at the youthful spirit of innocence and optimism. Whether it is coincidence or not, Katie’s death and struggle on the “symbolic ship” precedes and coincides with these events.
The childhood Katie would have known began to slowly die almost along with her. For those who may doubt that times are changing and that moral values are eroding, you need to look no further than the recent events in Newtown. We lose a piece of soul if we choose not to care about such things. I hope everyone will have a heart and endeavor to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem.
people get murdered at Sandy Hook
the country is ''appalled''
obama murders people with drones
nobody says a word
You mean PResadent not Obama because no matter who is in the big seat or their political group the same thing would happen. Placeing a persons name to it is a ploy by political groups to fight about.
Ace Lions
That is if you can call terrorists - people.
------------------------------------------------
The spirit of abysmal despair
The rape is implied by the shot of the mutineers taking her into the cabin and closing the door on the viewer. The choice of hanging as the mutineer's method of killing her doesn't make much practical sense (too slow, and too much trouble for men in a hurry to bother rigging up) so I would say that particular choice was dictated by film-making needs.
but why bother to close the door, then?
share[deleted]
It's a basic cinemotography act, closing the door ON the camera strongly implies what happened behind that door.
They are murderers and sickos; rape comes with the territory.
Real LOSERS spell 'loser' looser!
I agree, it's a basic convention of cinema, like the saying about what happens "behind closed doors". I hadn't watched this film for years, but on rewatching last night, I certainly thought that rape or assault was implied, and upon reading a thread saying that a rape scene was in the original script, I think this was definitely the intention.
She is treated differently to all the other passengers. I kept thinking why haven't they just killed her like all the others, until they took her into the room. It's been inserted as one of the most horrific acts that anyone can commit which certainly comes into play later with all the talk of sins etc. This is cinematic shorthand to emphasise how evil these men were: murderers, rapists and showing greed/lust for the gold.
I don't think this type of film would shy away from showing her murder otherwise, like some others have said. It's not Spielberg where children inexplicably don't die. (I'm thinking Jurassic Park, War of the Worlds etc)
Still gives me chills, not nearly as bad as when Rorschach finds evidence of the murdered little girl in Watchmen though :shudders:
You're right... the mere act of closing the door doesn't mean rape on its own... but the look on Katie's face, when she shows Epps what happened to her, is a look of embarrassment and shame... and that doesn't come from simply being killed by hanging... also, the very fact they took her into a room and closed the door meant they had something on their minds besides simply killing Katie... they weren't shy at all about all the other killings so why would murdering her in front of anyone or everyone bother them? I think the implication is obvious, and it's not a matter of personal interpretation at all.
~ the hardest thing in this world... is to live in it ~
Here we go with the America whining again.
shareHAHAHA! I have been reading the comments and wanting to smack people. I have never noticed that rape was implied. I've seen this movie many times and not once did I ever assume she was being raped. Nor do I ever see shame in Katie's face during the flashback scene with Epps. Sorrow/sadness yes, but she was killed for crying out loud.
People see what they want to see.
Had this on today (2013) for the first time, it was on the TV, when I watched that all those people were getting cut in half I realized it was sick and twisted and refused to watch any longer. So about 3 minutes in I switched the channel. I guess I'm old school, I don't need to watch bodies get sliced in half to know it happened.
shareWell, then I suggest that if you turn on the TV, and the movie says horror, change the channel?
How come I have a feeling that you had bo problem with the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan where people were getting cut into pieces by bullets (in a scene that was way more realistic and bloody than anything in Ghost Ship)....
The death of the girl as depicted in the film made little sense. Why bring her to her own cabin to kill her? Why go to the bother of hanging her?
This wasn't a Manson Family-esque group of nutters on a murderous rampage, motivated by a sadistic desire to inflict suffering and death. Their purpose was to dispatch the passengers and take the gold.
I suspect a late script re-write.
It's likely that the girl, alone on the ship after the deaths of the others, was originally supposed to have hung herself in her cabin.
Later, there were either second thoughts about the depiction of a child suicide, or it was felt her suicide conflicted with the image of her soul being pure and innocent - "unmarked".
Níl aon scáileán mar do scáileán féin.
Many viewers of the film agree with your premise Gaodhal.
Anyone who has followed Ghost Ship from its earlier inceptions as a relatively bloodless mystery thriller are probably well acquainted with the later rewrites.
In the final version of the film there are events and characters who do things which make little sense. As stated, the character of Katie is most perplexing. However, interviews along with edited and alternate scenes provide some of the missing background information. Consider the following questions:
Q: How does Katie get blood on her dress?
A: Recall she got off completely unscathed during the cable incident, so she picked up the stain another way. I read one source which claims she tried to help an injured passenger.
Q: After the cable incident why does Katie run into danger against the flow of fleeing passengers?
A: She tries to get to her friend and trusted caregiver "The Friendly Officer." Notice a concerned passenger has to hold Katie to keep her from running to her friend despite the fact two malevolent conspirators were using him as a lure so they could murder her.
Q: Why didn't the two nefarious crewmen just murder Katie as soon as they caught her?
A1: This scene was filmed more than once and with missing dialogue. It appears something happened in the backstory with the homicidal crewmen, which for them made murdering Katie an act of revenge. They clearly wanted her to suffer while at the same time die quickly.
A2: Since she was just a young child, other shipmates kept trying to save Katie. Watch closely and you can even see her mouthing "help me!" and a few mates vainly attempting to do so.
A3: The evil crewmen didn't want anyone to know they murdered Katie. The murder of a sweet, innocent child was considered so reprehensible even some of the other conspirators wanted to spare her. The note in Katie's stateroom from the ship's purser and Francesca is one example of this. Recall Katie was the only child onboard.
A4: Epps finding Katie's hanging remains added to the emotional and dramatic affect. The art department worked to the the nth degree on Katie's remains. If you look closely you can see her wrists were bent up indicating the two conspirators had to hold her arms down until she died.
A5: There is (or at least was) a written and unwritten morality clause about toning down the murder of children onscreen. Hence, Katie's murder is not directly shown, however, the number on her cabin door "404" indicates she had been on the ship 40 years and 4 months. Closing doors are also a favorite way for directors to transition scenes. Symbolically, a closing door indicates a life being slammed shut (death).
I could write at length, but this is enough to ponder for now.
I tend to agree with some of that but I disagree with some. I don't know why it was such a mystery that Katie had blood on her dress. People were getting shot up and cut up left and right. I'm actually surprised she wasn't soaked. As far as why the crewmen didn't kill her when they caught her, well you partially answered that yourself as well as did another user. Remember, Jack had to manipulate the crew. He had to tempt them by playing to their personality and their individual desires like he tried to do with Epps and her crew. He simply tempts them with gold and their other desires and watches as they greatly commit a plethora of sins to work towards what they want. Some users claim Katie was raped and then hung because the guys wanted her to die slowly and as you stated they used the unaware and friendly officer to lure her in. Who is to say that deep down they weren't psycho pedophiles giving into a sick sexual desire? The "trap" and how they killed her sure fits. The fact that it is all vague and happens off-screen kills 2 birds with one stone by giving no definite answer and by avoiding a gory child murder and possible rape scene
shareGo watch A Serbian Film. You'll love it.
=============
Fear What's Inside...
http://www.facebook.com/interiorfilm
Greedy armed men who dont hesitate to murder innocent people and hijack a cruise ship would do that.
When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.