MovieChat Forums > Children of Dune (2003) Discussion > The Necessity of the Golden Path

The Necessity of the Golden Path

posted 16 years ago by newsjunkie356-1
12 replies | jump to latest

Herbert doesn't explain why the "Golden Path" (Sachr Nabai, if memory serves) until "God Emperor of Dune" in the scene where he takes Siona Atreides (a very distant descendant of his long-dead sister-wife Ghanima and her consort Prince Farad'n Corrino) in to the Sareer (his pet desert) for her "testing."

Both Paul and Leto II's prescience presented them with a horrifying fate for mankind if the future weren't radically and permanently altered. Presented in a vision that Siona has during her spice trance, she sees a race of machines hunting down and systematically exterminating humanity--in "Terminator"'s Skynet's style.

The personal sacrifice that was the only thing that could insure humanity's survival was one Paul refused to make. Leto II, on the other, made of sterner stuff than his father, embraced the choice; thereby paying an almost unendurable personal price. It's easy to spend 3,500 hundred years trapped inside an alien body to save your own family; but to save generations of humans you'll never see? It's easy to imagine why even a revolutionary and an Emperor would quail?

The only way to avoid this fate for humanity is two-fold:

1.) Humanity must be scattered throughout the universe where nothing and no one can ever find all humans again. Humanity would thus be invulnerable to genocide. If you can't find every member of a species, it can't be wiped out. This is the sociological component of the Path: turn the Empire into a vast zoo and turn the screws ever tighter until, when the lid is removed, the explosion is uncontainable. I won't say anymore to avoid spoiling the books after "Children of Dune."

2.) The one way to ensure against prescient detection* is to create a line of humans who would be invisible to prescient detection. Leto II achieves this in Siona--his wild card and the reason that he took the breeding program away from the Bene Gesserit. Even he can't "see" her, though he is able to perceive her absence in some situations (in one scene he can see her footprints in the sand). The point is, Leto has introduced a truly new element into the human genome, setting human evolution back on the natural course that melange ("spice") had disrupted.

Aside from reading the REAL Dune novels--and NOT the trashy garbage his son has written to prostitute his father's achievement for sheer greed--"The Dune Encyclopedia" (ed. by Willis E McNeely). Sadly, it's out of print, though it can be found used (sometimes at very steep prices; none-the-less it's an absolute must for Dune-o-philes).

*such as the genocidal machines of the Golden Path's vision, and presaged, albeit in proto-typical form, in the Ixian Navigation Machines in the last two REAL Dune novels or even some potentially sentient alien race.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making the world think he didn't exist."

[–] Worhsipper 16 years ago

An excellent summation.

<<<< SPOILERS >>>>>

I always wondered though, whether the Siona gene was supposed to work vs. Miles Teg's ability to see no-ships... making the breeding program somewhat in vain.

Also, who are they hiding from? No one in the scattering had prescient abilities that we know of at all. Are the Ixian machines prescient more than several seconds ahead? Thats all that would be required for Herberts version of space travel.

[–] divk85 16 years ago

The Siona gene was to prevent others from seeing people with the gene with Prescience. They just had to have the ability to hide until, well, existence was assured. I guess. Teg's ability did not come naturally, it was rather forced out of him through the use of the probes. It was not intended to happen. As to the breeding program, the BG continued it because they have always done it. They were just using it to control their members, not trying to use it for a singular purpose, anymore (like with creating a KH).

As to who they were hiding from, pretty much anyone with the precient ability, like the Guild, that's not new (its not hiding per se, but it is using prescience to hide their location and what-not). But the new face dancers did try to take over the Guild and were in positions of power throughout the empire. The new face dancers did have the ability to form a holo-print memory of sorts, what if some way they managed to achieve prescience. That would be dangerous. Meanwhile, if the HM were able to see, then the BG would have been wiped out completely. The HM were always looking for ways to get the upper-hand, why not find a way to develop prescient ability? We know that no one in the Scattering had the prescient ability, that's not to say that they could not have developed it, or gain it in some way. It's not that it will happen, but there is a possibility it could. Much to the detriment of the original inhabitants of the empire.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] divk85 15 years ago

In all honesty, I don't. I suppose I could have said it in a different way. I just meant that Siona's genetic ability to cloak her from precient vision was actually intended, by Leto and his Golden Path, for a specific purpose against a non-specific, eventual, future threat, whereas Teg's ability to see the no-ships was not. No one intended for that ability to manifest; in that respect, it was more of an accident. Regardless of whether Teg's Atreides genes made his ability more possible was not my concern with regards to that earlier statement.

I meant that what happened to Teg (the consequences of Leto's Golden Path) paralleled the Bene Gesserit's Breeding Program, with respect to Paul. The Bene Gesserit intended to create a Kwisatz Haderach with their breeding program. What they had not intended was for him to rebel become a Messiah and to have Leto the God Emperor as a son. Leto had taken over the Breeding Program to create an individual to have the upperhand against a future enemy, but resulted in creating the Duncans (of Hunters and further), and people, the likes of Teg, who can under extreme conditions not gain Precience, but other abilities.

I just meant to highlight the difference, to give my opinion about the earlier posters question. While both processes (Breeding Program and Golden Path) intended one distinct purpose (again, my own opinion), the result was the same (unexpected consequences).

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] divk85 15 years ago

Now, this is the most fun Dune discussion I have had in a while.

My major point is that Leto had a particular goal in mind, ensuring the success of the Golden Path, not that he had a particular endgame or that there was one. The Golden Path is the survival of humanity and therefore there is no end to it, unless there is an end to all humanoid life. In GoED, Leto says that he can see Siona (and possible futures) up to a point. Remember in GoED, Leto says that looking into the future to such an extreme level (as Paul had done) and acting in a way that excludes all possibilities, was essentially a mistake and should not have been done.

By Leto's own admission he did not want to trap humanity in a particular future. He could have been lying or he could have been telling the truth about not seeing that far. We don't know for certain that he did look this far into the future, what we do know is that he looked into the future up to Siona and a possible threat to his Golden Path after the Scattering.

Siona's cloaking ability was a necessity to counteract the threat from the Scattering. I concede that Leto still shaped the universe. That he foresaw The Scattering, and the likely return of the Scattered descendants, and a possible threat via the Scattered is canon and unquestionable.

Sure, Teg had gained abilities, concurrent to some major events, and Leto could have had a hand it the future this far out. I have no problem in believing that, but we do not know that he did look this far. Teg's abilities manifested because of his Atreides genes and the T-Probe. It is possible that this ability was manifested as per Leto's Golden Path, but my point is, is that ability really as necessary to maintaining the Golden Path? We really do not know. It is my opinion, it wasn't. I believe that Miles Teg's unlocking his abilities was meant to happen, but not necessarily that it needed to happen. That for me is the difference between the two.

As to the destruction of Arrakis, we can not forget Leto shaped his universe in such a way that humans had to learn to live without Spice and those worms (in GoED). The Golden Path, in the long run, depended on people being less dependent on the Spice from Arrakis. The only way to completely free people from Spice dependency was the destruction of Arrakis. While Leto couldn't not totally destroy Arrakis on his own timeline, he did accomplish depleating the universe of Worms (by taking up the transformation and restricting the peoples movements). However, dependency on Dune's Spice still existed afterward. The newer worms were only necessary because of habit rather than actual need. But still, the monopoly on Spice was eventually broken and in ceased to be an issue.

As to Duncan, while Miles Teg was instrumental in awakening the last Duncan, there is nothing to say that Teg was the necessary component. Certainly, it helped, but like I said, it was not an absolute requirement. The BG could have figured it out on their own or a great number of things could have occured. So I maintain, while Teg was quite the important factor in much of the events after GoED, he was hardly the key-log.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] malenoid 13 years ago

What the heck is a "key-log"?

[–] AKGeo 11 years ago

Read God Emperor. There's a rather detailed explanation.

[–] NoahBody 14 years ago

Worhsipper

Also, who are they hiding from? No one in the scattering had prescient abilities that we know of at all.

We know limited prescience isn't that rare of an ability in the known DUNE universe. Is it not reasonable to believe that some of those from the scattering also have that ability?

[–] hafabee 12 years ago

If memory serves the Ixians had discovered or were on their way to discovering a way to replicate the prediction abilities of the Navigators artificially in computers, which would ultimately lead to sentient computers that can calculate the future and hunt down and exterminate all human life by fore-knowledge of where they all were. Leto II changed all that by introducing/breeding a wild card genome (by following his and his father's Golden Path over thousands of years) that prevented prediction abilities from detecting humans...and then spread that gene far and wide across the galaxy to prevent the human race from being wiped out completely if things got out of control.

[–] carnifex2005 10 years ago

Had no idea on the cost of the Dune Encyclopedia until I checked out Amazon after reading your post. I have a copy that I forgot to return to my old high school in 1990. It's going for $65 used on Amazon but I'm keeping it. I go back every few years to read a new tidbit. It's a great reference for the original series.