MovieChat Forums > Rain Discussion > *Spoilers* Janey + Cady, what really hap...

*Spoilers* Janey + Cady, what really happened?


If youve read the book (and had to analize it for media studies) like I did, then I think its shown that Janey was raped by Cady.
It took me forever to pick up on it. But Janey just wanted to be loved, she thought she was ready, but she wasn't.
The shot of her lying down is supossed to represent her Crucifixion so hence the similar shot with her brother.
So thats why he didnt help her, he ran off like a coward.
At least thats what I think anyway. This represents loss, in more ways than one.
Do you guys agree

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*SPOILERS*

Nah i think it was consensual... you can tell she liked cady but because she was still a child she couldn't distinguish like/love/sex...

That's why she was particularly sad when her brother died because it was her fault... if she wasn't "indulging" with cady, her brother never would have died

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Jim's death didn't seem to me to be a punishment for Janey for her sexuality. I knew Jim was going to die in the first 5 minutes of the film. To paraphrase, you don't put a six year-old who can't swim on the beach in act one unless you mean to drown him in act three. It's Jim's parents' disregard for him (and for their marriage) that leads to his death.

In the end, when Janey is trying to rescussitate Jim, he's a symbol for her parents' marriage. She tries and tries, but there's nothing she can do. Then her father tries, and she begs him to save Jim. But it's too late.

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First I wan't to say I completely agree with elegantelbow (and someone said I had a weird nick!).

But I'd like to add that accusing Janey (not your fault in the first place, but the directors) is at least ridiculous. What was Janey? A paid full-time babysitter? If she wasn't with Cady, she would be somewhere swimming, reading, listening music, doing anything that a normal teenager would do. Spending whole day with her little brother is not among those things. If her parents asked her to keep an eye on him for a hour or two, that would be different, and she would have to show some responsibility. But they didn't care at all. And, as a non-swimmer and at his age, he should have been under constant surveillance.

Finally, the parents (who to late showed a bit of conscience) found it suitable to share guilt with Janey to decrease their own, aggravating her the moment so much that they could push her over the edge - at that age suicide is not a rare exit from disturbing situations. It's weird that the director agrees with them. Although the film is not bad, it sends us some of the worst messages I've ever found on screen.

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I don't know if anyone was ever a teenage girl or had brothers and sisters, but i remember being on holidays and having to look after my little brother all the time when i was that age. The messages in the film are all very true to life. The director isnt saying- have underage sex and you will be punished at all. The message is quite the opposite. The mother tells her at the end 'it's not your fault'. It is not her fault. The director merely shows us what it is to be a teenage girl in this day and age. Responsibilites, curiosity, sexual awareness. all teenage girls have crushes on older men, be it their teacher or a family friend. The girl is thirteen and some thirteen year olds in this day and age are years beyond their age, and sexually curious. But it takes someone to cross the boundry, for an innocent crush to be acted upon. Even the most curios and sexually aware and educated thirteen year old girl, is still innocent is many ways. The difference between 13 and even fifteen is immense. I am twenty, i look back at sixteen as if it was a decade ago, and i look back at 13 and thing of how i didn't know a thing, even though i thought i did.

I think it's a great film, and look past what obvious preaching you think there is, because the message is far more complicated than you think, and the mind of a thirteen year old girl is the most complicated thing in the world.

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I have said that this movie is much better than some of its messages, haven't I? So there's no need to discuss that.

However, though I have never been (and with high certainty I can say I'll never be) a teenage girl, I have another experiences that you don't have, because I am much more than twice your age, having several kids of my own and knowing a lot of people (working with many). So I can say that I don't believe Janey's mother when she says "It's not your fault". She is telling it more as a comfort and not that she really thinks it. But she would like to believe it, she would like to believe that nobody's to blame, because in some corner of her mind she noticed an idea that it might be HER fault, but she refuses to accept it. She is trying to tell herself "It's not your fault"; and emphasizing it to her daughter she in fact warns Janie that it COULD be her fault but she is so generous that she will forgive her. So she makes Janey have a burden on her conscience for the rest of her life, for something she should never be responsible for, being a thirteen year old girl.

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You should not assume that you far more life experience simply because you are 'twice my age'. Some people live through far more in twenty years than others do in a lifetime, and you presume to know what life i have lived. I don't have children- yet, but this doesn't mean that my opinion shouldn't be valued just as yours.

I see that you are a father...but it not the same, and never will be the same. The bond between mother and daughter is complicated. About as complicated as the one between father and son. I cannot even begin to understand how men feel about their fathers and sons, and i doubt you know any more about mothers and daughters.

So I can say that a mother never feels that way about their children. I have seen forgiveness from mothers, for things far worse. She doesn't burden her child, the girl will take it upon herself to carry a burden. Parent's arent always responsible for the scars left on their children, sometimes they are self-inflicted.

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I have never said that I have so many experiences, but I had more time to look around, more opportunities to contact people etc. I don't presume anything except what you wrote about yourself (and I believe is true, though it is not a rare situation when people on Internet lie about who they really are); also you can only believe me, and I hope that you do.

But I really can see anything that I've written what would make your opinion look less worth than mine. Opinion is something equally worth for any person regardless of gender, age, education, I.Q., job or anything else.

When you officially claim something you have to prove it. It is probably something within your professional qualifications or something that you deal with a lot as a leisure. But then you must have arguments, you must prove something. And you can't be so strong in too many different fields of life. However, opinions are not that strong, you can have opinion about anything (and the more you look around, observe, talk to people, consider and think about something, the more things you'll have opinions about). I'm happy to discuss with people who have their own opinions, the more the better, and not with brainwashed demagogues who'll only repeat what they think they are supposed to. So please don't think I find your opinion less worth in any way. But I'd appreciate if you tell us a little more about the way you developed your opinion (through good or bad family relations, or talking to friends, or reading, or... no need to go in details that you'd find embarrassing or unpleasant of course).

Now, my opinion... The bonds that you mention are legends. They never exist by default. They are as strong as we build them, as any other bonds among people - family members, friends, coworkers, members of same party or religion, members of opposite party or religion... In parents-children bonds it is almost everything the way parents create it. When children grow up, they respond their way, they give their share of emotions, but they do it as persons that were made mostly by parents. Sometimes parents blame the influence of media or society, but it were parents who made those kids more or less submissive to those influences. Of course, as kids grow parents can do less day after day, but if making not to many mistakes in early years they'll have a good relation with children later and still be able to make some corrections (I don't like this word either, but I guess you understand).

So I'd say that all family bonds in "Rain" have been ruined or destructed long ago. Every character in movie lives his own life neither caring nor respecting the others. There are no deep emotions, and therefore there is no real comfort in the end. Everyone wants to keep illusion about him/herself both in the eyes of others and in own eyes. So, it is a false, affected forgiveness making mother look better, generous, for her own better feeling; Janey has experienced a lot of these fake emotions and won't trust her. Though, as you say, she will have her own burden no matter what her mother says because she has a conscience of her own that will be a burden for a long while before she will be able not to understand (I believe she already does) but to emotionally accept the fact that her brother's death was not her fault at all and finally forgive herself.

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It shows the power of this film I guess. That it can create such discussion over the board.


I'm not writing detailed essays on the themes of this film. We are simply having a discussion, and yes, this is my opinion of the film. I don't need to back it up, because i don't care. They will never be a certain answer when it comes to this film. There is no end to the discussion.

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Maybe I got carried away with last post (though, I have to admit that most posts I make are that size), but I didn't want to look offensive or aforethought.

About the power, guess you are right. Though I don't agree with director in messages and relation to characters, I must admit that it offers a chance for discussion. I'm glad we both took part in it.

(Wow, a short post... what an unusual experience...)

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Please, the girl instigated it- she was sexualised through the entire film. I would say it was consensual.

However, much as I loved the film, I was dissapointed that the girl was symbollically punished for having sex- she has sex, her brother dies.

it's like the old horror movie cliche- the promiscuous(sp?) girl always gets killed.

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Guys, she was 13 years old--she CAN'T consent. She might not have been fighting him off and screaming no, but by just about every law in Western civilization, not to mention all decency and morality, she was raped by Cady.

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i myself don't condone underaged sex, it's disgusting,
but some people are just more sexually mature than others,
she probably wasn't but there are kids nowadays that
are readier than ever, just like hell the weirdness of greek
times. it was a whole different story then. law is just there to protect
kids from making stupid mistakes, a lot of people know what they're doing.
i don't think she really knew the implications, and was just trying to
taste the taboo life her mom was leading.

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A "sexually mature" 13 year old is an oxymoron. She may be sexually precocious, but could not be mature. Maturity implies experience, and the learning and wisdom that comes with it. You think a 13 year old could possess that?

You seem to be stating that some children are now able to consent to sex with an adult, because they are sexually mature beyond their years and "know what they're doing"? I generally try not to outright dismiss someone's opinion, but this is rubbish.

Moreover, what makes you think that children that age were capable of consenting to sex with adults 2500 years ago? They didn't consent, there was no "weirdness" about their unnaturally early sexual experiences. They were used, exploited.

I'm not debating your points regarding this movie, more the overall perceptible attitude behind your post.

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but, who are you to tell somebody that he or she can't consent at a specific age? that's just based on your own concept of "decency and morality", not everyone else's. historically, rape is defined as sexual intercourse with an unwilling party.

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*I* am not telling someone, period. The laws tell them. These laws are based on a general concept of decency and morality, not on my concepts.

The historical definition of rape is irrelevant. The historical (read: old) definition of abusing your wife meant that you were beating her until she was nearly dead. Slapping her around would not have been illegal. My point, of course, is that concepts of morality and law change over time. In the 20th century, the concept of abusing your wife is different, just as the concept of rape includes sex with a child who is underage. It is called statutory rape. Whether or not it is consensual is irrelevant, as the child is not legally able to consent.

May I ask if you feel there is no specific cut-off age at which society should say a child is too young to consent? What is a 10 year old felt she was of age, would that be acceptable?

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themegster, your theory sounds appealing to me. I do agree with you - she was crying on her way to the beach, BEFORE she got to see her brother lying on the sand. It was not consensual, she was teasing him but regret doing it at a certain point... too late. That guy seemed he wouldn't miss a chance if someone flirted with him; He wasn't really caring whether she was just a 13 year old girl that didn't know what she was doing - she didn't even have interests on him, she was just killing time, confused by her parents situation and her mum cheating her dad with him.

Anyway, I see the way it can make you relate the evil underage girl having sex with the fact of not caring and leading to her brother's death. Also, where was the mother? Always getting drunk and not caring. The film sounds like it wants to teach us a lesson, sometimes. But personally, I think it's more about a family, that could be just any family, going through issues - no judgements. I think that's how the director wanted to show it off on screen, nothing more than that. Does anyone else agree? I rather think about it that way, too.


ps: I didn't know about the book, is it inspired by a real story?

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And Jeffs chose the song "Cry Wolf" just after this scene (the one when her brother dies).

Love is weird, love
She's overdone it, can't go on
She caused it all, cry, cry wolf
She didn't know, she didn't want it
She does alot of things and regrets it
Love can hurt, love
Love is weird, love
A girl who wants it, but has no clue
She's says she'll give it, cry, cry wolf
A change of mind in a back seat or that dirty room
They say she got just what she wanted
Love can be bad
Love is weird, love
You should'a known better
You should'a known better
You should'a known, It's all your fault
You should'a known better
You should know better
Didn't they tell you
Didn't they tell you
Cry, cry wolf (repeat)

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Me again. I just saw that this subject has already been a thread ones and someone else did just what I did: posting the lyrics of this song. The thread was just a few lines under this one (...) why make two of them LOL :) anyway... so I see someone else sees the connection between the song and the scene.

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@mariacarabin:

Who's the artist of this song? Do you konow? or does anyone else know?
Anyway, I just started searching for a soundtrack of this film, but couldn't find it. Yet I reeaally loved the music in the film :(

I think, Janey just wanted to "experiment" with cady. I mean, all the time she was looking at him, and you didn't know wether it was because she was mad at him because of that he and her mother had an affair, or because she was "sexualised" by him. I think Cadey is sexy, if I myself would have had the chance with him, I would have done the same as Janey. Maybe not with 13, but now...

PS: Sorry, if my English is a bit false, but I'm form Germany ;)

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Hey Aero

Its Lisa Germano - Cry Wolf, just incase you have not found out yet...

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My only contribution to this thread is the definition of consent.

The laws may legally impose what age a personal engage in sexual behavior. Multiple factors are involved when trying to include concepts of morality, decency, ethics, etc.

However, by pure definition, to "consent" is merely "to agree." Two underage people can "consent" to have sex with each other. One underage person and one adult can "consent" to have sex with each other. These situations may not be legal or morally tolerated by society. However, of course it is a realistic scenario that a 13 year old girl can consent (ie: agree by her own actions and choice) to have sex. Does that make her decision necessarily informed or mature? Nope. But that is not the definition of "consent."

Mutual agreement? Did they both want to have sex?

The legality, et al, are separate issues FOR THE PURPOSE OF DEFINING THE TERM "CONSENTING SEX" BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE.

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It's not a wonder that so many sexual problems exist, because many people have difficulties understanding the issues of sexual consent, even when they are not 'in the heat of the moment.' Children need protection from engaging in sex -- an experience that many adults do not know how to handle.

Legally, and in reality, a child cannot consent to sex when they are under a certain age (with each jurisdiction attempting to decide a correct age) and when they are adolescents with a person who is seven or more years older. Unconsented non-forced sex with a child is called statuatory rape - even if the child is willing, the adult must not engage in sex with the child because being willing has nothing to do with consent. There is also forceable rape of a child, and fortunately most people understand that is illegal.

Beyond the issue of any law, sex with a child is immoral and unethical. You may not LIKE the restrictions -- but the laws, ethics and morals about sexual consent are created for constructive, not destructive or prissy, reasons. Personal opinions, desires and fantasy are one thing, and the real need of children to develop in a healthy way until they are adults is quite another.

I am a U.S. psychologist -- most of the world has laws, morals and ethics that are similar to those in the U.S. except for countries that have child marriage. Note that countries with child marriage do not accept unmarried sex, and in many of the coutries/cultures with child marriage, the marriage is a legal union of families -- the children are not allowed to be with each other until they are deemed to be old enough, usually late adolescense. Most of these coutries do not have the same longevity as the developed nations -- so the adolescent consumation of a marriage is not unexpected.

People who fanticize that children should be 'allowed' to have sex may have themselves experienced child abuse -- and might do well to discuss their experiences with a professional who is skilled in the area of child sexual abuse.

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"Children need protection from engaging in sex -- an experience that many adults do not know how to handle."

Huh??? That is a very strange statement. Are you implying that for many adults, sex is a mystifying, traumatic experience which they are incapable of handling?
Perhaps a minority of adults see sex that way, but if that's the case, I'd suggest it is they who are in need of a "professional".
My advice to you, Cmcurrie2, would be: "Physician, heal thyself before you take the mote out of another's eye."

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While I read over what alot have said and agree with some and not with others I would like to bring up one thing. Think of the time of the movie. Than think of more later than that.

How old was your mom when she got married.

Your grand mother
Great Grandmother
Greatgreat?

Most people will find out that age startes to drop and at a point it will be in the teens. What has caused us to make teens more responisible now or back than to being adults? 200 years ago it wasn't unheard of a girl in her mid teens geting married to a man almost twice her age. I think it's our society that has changed and shelter our kids....as we tend to now grow older we seem to want to keep them our kids even longer than let them grow up and be adults.

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whatever you want to say to make yourselves feel better. To me it's obvious what happened.

P eople for the
E thical
T reament of
A bh-Ash

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I don't know that I would call it rape, but he definitely took advantage of her. He was a slime ball.

The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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