MovieChat Forums > Hatuna Meuheret (2002) Discussion > The Movie from an Israeli point of view

The Movie from an Israeli point of view


I was going through the posts, and I didnt see any Israeli one. I feel a bit obliged to put some things in order.

Firs of all the movie doesnt take place in Tel-Aviv. It is taken place in a suburb, 15 klm away from the metropolitan. Or Yehuda (the city in which Zaza lives) is a place who Jews from all over the world live toghter: Iraq, India and Georgia. It may be only miles away from secular liberal Tel Aviv but it is light years away from it culturly wise.

I know people who are Georgian oriented. The matchmaking is very much alive over here, so there is nothing unrealistic about this tale. Girls are married before they turn 18 so they wont join the army, where their virginity and morals are at risk. Boys usualy work with their parents and keep on the family tradition.

Zaza is an example of someone who seemingly has paved a route of his own, but later it becomes clear that he still depends on his parents. He uses their credit cards to buy food for Judith and her daughter.

The conlict is all about growing up and having to make some sacrifices for your independecy. It is a conflict which every Israeli goes through. Over the years young Israelis choose to keep on living with their parents after they've done with the military service. Zaza's situation it exaggerted, and that what makes the conflict interesting.

Fortunatley Israeli Film industry hasnt adopted the American way of a forced happy ending. The ending is true, hurtful and real. It is like life, rarley do we make the best or the most moral choices.

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I was happy to see a foreign film from Israel. To see another point of view. I also liked how it showed a version of the old/new ways. Thanks for the further information.

Jennie
USA

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Actually, Zaza's family are Georgian immigrants, so such an assumption should have no bearing on Israel-born Jews. Or something. :-P

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Hi Ziv-it,

Thank you for the explanation...i really enjoyed the film and felt really sad at the end but as you explained, Israeli film are more realistic than American ones. I could not understand at first why a 31 year old Israeli, taking up his doctorate could be dictated by his parents in such a manner. I just had this idea that young Israeli people have pretty modern ideas and are independent...until you explained that this was depiction of an immigrant family. No wonder they still clung to their traditions. But what continues to perplex me was the son's action in the bathroom where he kissed his father's genitals (ew!) to show gratitude?! That was pretty way out for me unless of course, the director just wanted to show how irrational he had gotten after following his parents dictum. And was it all sarcasm on his part when he talked about being married to the most beautiful woman in the world but there was someone more beautiful than her? I believe he was referring to Judith and not his mother! But it was a very funny film and also very sad.

Thank you for your insights.

Shalom,
christine

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At the end, I heard his say something like "Tell them how I have a more beautiful woman on the side". So it seems as if he's already cheating on his new bride. I don't think this came through in the translation, for some reason.

I was surprised that Georgian families are so old fashioned and superstitious. It was a great film because it showed the young Israeli torn between his family's old ways and his new ways.

The ending was very realistic too.

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I believe he was again, showing is Geogian values and obviously talking about his MOTHER. The moment is probably supposed to be intense and uncomfortable to those unfamiliar with the culture. :)

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Actually, I thought he was drunk. That would have explained the bathroom business as well as the little speech (especially why the other guy kept trying to pull him down)

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The comment about something not coming through in the subtitles really interested me. The subtitles never mention Judith's name or her background, but reviewers seem to know this. I also wonder about the child's name: Madonna. Since when do Jews name kids after the Virgin Mary? I ordered the book and hope I will get some answers. Thanks for the insight.

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thank you for the info on the translation. i have been suspecting that things have been left out. i don't believe her name or ethnic origin is mentioned in the movie, but some people know it. i would love to read the book, but can't find it!

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Genitals

Place your hand under my thigh, this occurs several times, twice or thrice, in Beresheit / Genesis.

Eliezer the servant of Abraham and Joseph the son of Jacob are both asked to place their hands under the thighs of their master and father while taking an oath. They were both not only pleased to take the oaths in question, but the hand-under-thigh gesture signified the oath-taker would not violate the oath.

Since he was drunk and unhappy, Zaza aimed for the genitals instead of the thigh, perhaps it was a sarcastic dive, he was sarcastically expressing his non-existent gratitude in accepting and upholding an oath that he detested.

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Let me add a few notes to the comments above.

Since he was drunk and unhappy, Zaza aimed for the genitals instead of the thigh, perhaps it was a sarcastic dive, he was sarcastically expressing his non-existent gratitude in accepting and upholding an oath that he detested.
TemporaryOne-1's interpretation is more sophisticated than mine, and I really like it. I seem to remember that biblical scholars explain that in this context "thigh" is a euphemism for "genitals."

I see Zaza as saying something more raw. I think Zaza is saying something like this to his father: "You think that you own me because I came out of your penis. Let me complete my humiliation by paying homage to the part of your body that you think gives you the right to dominate my life (and in particular, my sexual life) by performing fellatio on you. Is not that the sort of submission you really want from me? Well, here it is."

Zaza is not happy about the relationship, but he acknowledges it and accepts it. He has been, and will be, well rewarded for sucking up to, or perhaps, as he suggests, sucking on, his parents. To continue the sucking theme, Zaza has not been weaned and continues to suck on the parental teat.

Zaza reminds me of someone living in Communist Eastern Europe in the 70s who cannot openly oppose the tyrannical regime, so he finds subtle, hidden ways that will not be understood by the regime to express how he really feels.

The moment that Zaza is married, his parents move on to their real agenda. They want grandchildren; that is what this is all about. (Well, that and control.) However they may have justified their objection to Judith, actually they insisted on a younger wife because she is likely to produce more grandchildren. Zaza's parents don't see him as a person; they see him as a means to pass their genes on to later generations. If it means denying Zaza the happiness and love that they were denied, then so be it. Zaza's happiness is just not a concern for them.
... That's why I think Zaza kept telling his girlfriend that he wanted to wait until after his doctorate was over to tell his parents (in the beginning of the movie) -- maybe he felt it would be easier then (the easy way out) to break free financially.
Zaza's way of dealing with his parents is to tune them out, tell them what they want to hear (or at least not argue with them), and then do what he wants to do. Whether it is habit or cowardice or self-interest, or all three, I don't know, but I am sure he has been doing this his entire life.

Zaza may have convinced himself that when he completes his degree he will get financial independence and marry Judith, but he is deceiving himself. I don't know what the job market for newly minted PhD's in philosophy is like in Israel, but I suspect that he is not going to be able to maintain the lifestyle that he is used to without his parent's support. When it comes down to it, Zaza is not going to give up both his parents and their support. In the meantime, he is telling Judith what she wants to hear which is the same tactic that he uses with his parents. I don't know if Zaza loves his parents more that he loves Judith, as she says. I don't have any conviction that he loves any of them. He certainly loves what his parents can provide more than what Judith can provide.

Judith is a good person, and the only major character in the film who is sympathetic. It is a shame that she fell for someone like Zaza who looks great on the surface but is hopelessly weak inside. The obvious way for Judith to get Zaza, and shut his parents up, is to get pregnant by him. Judith, however, wants his love, not just to trap him.

That said, this is a very sophisticated movie, and it resists easy judgments. The parents are partially shown in a sympathetic way, and the possibility that the parents might be right is left at least a little bit open. Maybe the relationship with Judith is based on sex and not much else. Maybe Zaza will ultimately be happier with the woman that he marries than he would have been with Judith. I don't know, but I do hope that Zaza will get the marriage that he deserves, and that the entire extended family will end up in the worst nursing home in Israel.

P.S. In support of the idea that the theme of procreation runs through Late Marriage, let me note the following:
>>> The foreskin of an infant is featured prominently, if humorously, in the first part of the film. The "bouquet garni" seems to be a kind of love/fertility charm. The penis that it came from has its entire reproductive life ahead of it.
>>> In the middle of the film, there is a clear reference to the sin of Onan. Here it is the woman, and not the man, who causes the spilling of the seed. The love charm that the semen is used in destroys it.
>>> At the end of the film, we are back to male "reproductive organs," the father's, but they are no longer going to be used for reproduction and have to be replaced by the son's "reproductive organs."

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Watching the movie I really didn’t pay attention to the mention of the cultural differences between Zaza’s family and Judith’s. However in the back of my mind, I’ve just assumed the opposite of the reality as in the movie. I was under the impression that Zaza’s family is more likely to be from a Moroccan background as their way of life/thinking is very similar to what a Moroccan family probably would be three decades ago. While Judith seemed to me to be too liberal to be a Moroccan so I just assumed that she would probably be from Europe.

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I've seen this sex scene described as "As erotic as a visit to the gynecologist". I somehow agree.

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Was this ZaZA's final decision? When his mother visits Judith alone Judith tells her he is calling and wants to marry her and she is refusing him b/c of the way he acted "that night". Perhaps he just gave up b/c he couldn't have the one he wanted. Maybe he learned his lesson too late!

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I notice a lot of comments are paying lip service to an ending that was not "a typical Hollywood ending". As if there is something noble about a movie with such a downbeat message. Unless a movie is a documentary, it tends to reflect the values of the culture that produced it. American movies end on an upbeat note because THAT'S THE WAY WE ARE!!! We struggle to overcome everything life throws at us. Consider, however, movies that come from other countries. These are made by people who's parents and grandparents DIDN'T HAVE THE SACK TO IMMIGRATE to America! Of COURSE their movies show a downbeat end. Because the people who made the movies are the children of LOSERS! What did you expect?

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no u

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Aw, come off it. It's a downbeat ending because it's not Hollywood, and people are mature enough to accept the fact that not everybody gets their fairy tale ending. It's like real life- things don't always work out how we'd wish!

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What I noticed was that he spoke to Judith, the young girl @ beginning of movie in Hebrew and most of the time when he was speaking with his family and relatives he was speaking Hebrew.

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that was to emphasize the generation and cultural gap between him and his parents. But I still felt that a guy like him who was educated and financially independent might nevertheless tell his parents to get lost and go with whoever he wanted. ..
or at least I would like to think so.Of course Ilana would not have any choice in who she married though

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I made a mistake. When speaking to parents and relatives, he was speaking Georgian, not Hebrew.

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but, he wasn't financially independent. don't you remember him giving his father his father's credit card back, and then his mother later giving it back to him?
also, his mother yelled that 'her sweat paid for this woman' (something to that effect): Zaza was not financially independent. he depended on them for money and other various things... that's why I think Zaza kept telling his girlfriend that he wanted to wait until after his doctorate was over to tell his parents (in the beginning of the movie) -- maybe he felt it would be easier then (the easy way out) to break free financially.

--------
"Love of an idea is love of God." --Frank Lloyd Wright
papijacque

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