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Ronnie should've been the Strike Team leader

posted 11 years ago by shivalrous
53 replies | jump to latest

In my parallel universe Ronnie Gardocki and not Vic Mackey is the Strike Team leader.

Ronnie would have known better than to piss off Captain Aceveda just because you think you have some old drunk (Gilroy) downtown who's got your back. So no Terry Crowley snitch to deal with.

Ronnie had the book smarts of Dutch as well as the street smarts of Vic. All relevant paperwork would've been done on time in the station as well as keeping the gangbangers in line on the street.

Ronnie knew when to stop. Unlike Vic who was always looking for the next big score.

This may sound a bit cruel but Ronnie wasn't a family man (as far as I can tell from the show) so no wife and kids to distract him. I would imagine he would have no problem telling Vic and Shane to either get their sh!t together or get desk jobs if they wanted more time with their families.

I'm not trying to say the Strike Team wouldn't still be kickass rogue cops but I believe they would've got away with at least 80% of the stunts they pulled under Ronnie's leadership rather than Vic who was without doubt clever and wily but not half as clever as he thought he was.

Agree or disagree?

[–] zukny 11 years ago

Right now Ronnie is just coming out of his shell in (season 4) at least that's where i am at in the series. It's pretty nice considering I think he had maybe 1 line the entire first season.

That all said, I think you are a bit too low on Vic Mackey. So far Shane has been more the rogue cop than all of them. He seems to not know when he has gone too far etc..

Vic (Specifically in Season 4) is seen juggling multiple tasks at the same time. Also because so much of what Vic does can't be written down. He has to memorize 100 things going on at the same time and balance them out for the guys. Interesting Season 4 episode: 1. Shane wants to kill Vic. 2. Dutch is screwing his ex wife. 3. His children have entered a fight against the drug companies for autism. 4. Boss has put him on the back burner, but he still has to find the guys. 5. Astevada screwed him over from being in charge and is breathing down the entire precints neck. 6. Vic can't fight dirty right now to get his arrests. 7. Most of the crap he does can't be on books / on paper anywhere. 8. He has to get Antwann off the streets. 9. He has to find the girl that was murdered (at that point they don't know it was Antwann). 10. He has to keep his guys from killing each other.

I'm sorry, I just don't see Ronnie handling all of that.

[–] keyvenx 11 years ago

I would agree that Ronnie could be just as cunning and intelligent as Vic, but he seems to be on the wrong-side of cold-blooded. Vic has slightly more noble aspirations than Ronnie, which is to 'protect and serve' his family and the ST.

Ultimately I do believe Vic would have laid down his life to defend every one of the members of his family and the Strike Team. I'm not sure Ronnie is capable of that - he seems to be loyal to Vic and Vic only.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Klockard23 11 years ago

"Ronnie knew when to stop. Unlike Vic who was always looking for the next big score."

I'm not sure I agree with this... Not with Ronnie knowing when you stop, but with Vic always looking for the next big score. Vic wanted to give up looking for ways to gain extra cash as far back as the beginning of season 2. The Armenian Money Train was supposed to be the end to all of it. Everything after that was always Shane dragging them back into the mess - getting involved with Antwon, Kavanaugh using Lem to rat on them, Shane killing Lem, Shane getting involved with the Armenians, etc.

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

A poor choice of words...I agree with you about next big score..but I guess I was talking more generally about Vic's wheeling and dealing

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

To Zukny...I don't want to post too may spoilers as you're currently on Season 4, but as I said in my initial post under Ronnie's leadership there wouldn't have been any butting heads with Aceveda in the first place in my opinion, therefore NO Terry Crowley situation to deal with.

Also as I stated in my previos post...Vic's family problems are a drag on the Strike Teamwhich is a drag on his leadership. Ronnie DOESN'T have a family and therefore can remain focused on the problem in front of him.

To Keyvenx....I agree that Ronnie doesn't have Vic's loyalty which is EXACTLY why he would've cut Shane loose when yet another of his desperate schemes went down the drain and would have saved the remainder of the team. Unattractive but logical

[–] homer34 11 years ago

he's too much of a follower. He doesn't have the people skills to lead and set direction

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

COMPLETELY disagree about Ronnie being a follower. It's a pity that he was only really developed in Seasons 6 & 7. But there were little nuggets of Ronnie's leadership, and in my opinion, being able to see through Vic's BS throughout the series. It's Ronnie who comes up with a foolproof plan to rob the Armenians.
It's Ronnie who calls it correctly and tells Vic to cut Shane loose....hell even from a self-preservation point of view it's Ronnie who was gonna get his own lawyer when the Strike Team were looking down the barrel of career ending corruption charges until he was sweet talked out of it by Vic and his "All-for-one-and-one-for-all" crap.

Like I've said before I always gor the impression Ronnie could lead the team if he WANTED to (which I don't think he did)...but let Vic lead the team because he Vic NEEDED to

[–] homer34 11 years ago

That's kind of the point. He knows what he SHOULD do, but he's too milquetoast to do it when anybody applies pressure. I also think he lacked the charisma a leader needs to get people to do his bidding

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

I agree that Ronnie doesn't have Vic's charisma, he doesn't have Vic's swagger either...but I still think Ronnie would have made a better leader of the team than Vic. Watch out for the quiet ones

[–] foxboro27 11 years ago

*Spoilers* And he does end up taking over the Strike Team when Vic gets canned. He does a pretty good job too.

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

Again a casualty of his late development in the show. We only get little nuggets of his capability. I liked his little tete a tete with Hiatt over containment vs "zero tolerance"...and when he said to Shane that if he came out with any more "I had to kill Lem" BS he was gonna throw down with him right there and then in the parking lot. Shane shut up immediately!

[–] zukny 11 years ago

After watching the full series, one has to wonder who and how many people Ronnie would have been willing to kill, injure or what have you just to protect himself.

His coming out party in Season 6 / Season 7 really showed why he always went along with all the others. He always agreed with them. He never asked questions like Lem did or even Shane did sometimes. He never had the conscience one would need to lead.

Of all the characters he may have always been the craziest. Of course, we'll never know though. I wonder what would happen if he ever got out of Jail. Would he forgive Vic? or would he try to kill him

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

Don't really understand what you're trying to say with this post. But if is to say that Ronnie was on a "slash and burn" plan then I think you are wrong. Ronnie signs up to kill Shane (understandable), he's pretty nonchalant when he hears that Vic killed Terry (gotta admit that pissed me off about him), and shoots a piece of crap hitman who was looking to kill Vic's family (again that's understandable)...but even he was taken aback when Vic wanted to kill Mara when Vic wanted to kill Mara who was pregnant at the time and he calls Vic on it.
And didn't Vic more or less run the Strike Team into the ground exactly because he lacked a conscience. Don't really see that as a handicap

[–] worc508 10 years ago

I remember on the audio commentary David Rees Snell thought Ronnie was going to be the last one standing. What would you all had thought if Ronnie outlasted Vic and Shane? Imagine if it went with both Shane and Vic dead and none of the crimes get out? I would've loved to have seen a Wire type ending where Ronnie becomes the new Vic, Julien becomes the Ronnie and we had a couple of new members of The Strike Team in the finale. One of the members could be a female.

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

Would you mind telling me which episode that commentary is on. As for your question I think Ronnie had the smarts to outlast Vic and Shane....but would call for a level of self-preservation that had been hitherto never been displayed by a Strike team member (maybe Ronnie killing Shane to get to his dirty dossier...or making his own deal with ICE and selling Vic down the river in regards to the Terry Crowley murder)

As for a new Strike team I propose Hiatt, Julian and Dani. Tavon or Army could be called back but I'm leaning more towards Tavon as Army has Shane-stink all over him.

[–] worc508 10 years ago

David Rees Snell commentary was on the final episode of The Shield. I'm wondering if Hiatt or Tavon would entertain coming back to The Strike Team. I could see Dani on The Strike Team. I wonder how Billings would do as a Strike Team member?

[–] sawfan1414 10 years ago

Just want to throw it out there that under no circumstances is there ANY FCKING WAY they institute a new Strike Team after Vic lol. Not a chance in hell.

[–] worc508 10 years ago

I think they would have a successor team. There's a need for a special unit that deals with gangs and drugs minus the corruption. I'm willing to bet that gang crime went up after The Strike Team was dismantled.

[–] sawfan1414 10 years ago

Worc

Very doubtful. They wanted to end it several times throughout the series, claiming how much money it cost to run it and the sh*tstorm it brought to the barn. Now with finding out what exactly the ST did, I couldn't see even a 1% chance of them bringing it back.

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

BILLINGS!!!!!!LMAO. Always had a soft spot for the guy and his "hardwork-never-killed-anybody-but-why-take-the-risk" philosophy. He might work out. First scratch he got from a banger he'd probably sue them and seize all their hard earned drug assets.

[–] KnightTanthalas 11 years ago

Ronnie only had the skills because of the situations imposed within the last 3 years of his life under the direction of Vic and Shane. When Ronnie first started the strike team, the idea of planting evidence and making it believable was beyond him. If you go back and watch the co-pilot, Terry was immediatly put in place as Vic's replacement as Aceveda was gunning for Vic from the get-go. Even if the strike team never dabbled in illegal stuff to begin with, Ronnie would not have had the leadership qualities to get the job done straight and legal. Also, Ronnie would not have had the balls at the beginning to deal with Terry, as Terry was David's friend to begin with and would have ratted the Strike Team out anyways.

During season 2 at the start of the Armenian money train, Ronnie was losing his cool and getting frightened easily over the Green Lighting from Armadillo. It wasn't until after he got burned that he was gung-ho completely on the money train.

TLDL short version. Ronnie to start was a quiet, awkward sort of geek that was molded into the man the could run the strike team in the end.

[–] shivalrous 11 years ago

I COMPLETELY disagree. As I mentioned earlier Ronnie was never developed in any meaningful way before season 6-7. The Terry situation came about because Vic was being OPENLY insubordinate as well as all doing illegal stuff. There wouldn't have been the question of "balls" as they wouldn't have been a snitch to deal with in the first place.

As for losing his cool over Armadillo. Again I see that as a signal of Ronnie's wisdom. He raises a genuine question about the sociapathic traits of Armadillo given that he could have his own brother killed, the rest of the team dismissed it with their typical machismo, but let's not forget Ronnie's punishment was meant for Vic, so his apprehension was prescient.

Ronnie was quiet, and didn't rock the boat. So chances are he wouldn't have been on Aceveda's radar. He was strong, he takes down a meth dealing biker with no problem (kinda made Tina look admiringly at him), he was decisive, he shoots the Armenian hitman dead without a second thought....and most of all he wasn't joined at the hip with Lame duck Shane

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

bumping this again

[–] eyebrowmorroco 10 years ago

That’s like Hitler deferring to Goebbels.

[–] jeffsh 10 years ago

I think Ronnie was a bit more logical and analytical about his choices. Where Vic's emotion were the driving force behind most of his decisions.

Ronni would have made the better leader cause he would have realized that killing Terry wouldn't make their problems go away. Something like that just makes people dig deeper. better to keep Terry right where you can see him rather than make him a martyr for the cause. It was a very dumb move by Vic, and Ronnie showed who he was going to be by being very matter of factly about it, the boss made the decision and he agreed with him.

-only uneducated minds are not open to any ideas other than their own.

[–] execproducer22 10 years ago

Like others have said I think Ronnie maybe the more analytical of the bunch, but he lacks the charisma and balls that would be neede to lead...

You notice he never really spoke up at all during most of the show and kinda let everyone else make decisions for the team but him.

I would definitely say he is too much of a follower to be a better leader than Vic.

Case in point, when he is running the team in the last season he gets berated by Claudette for ineffective leadership and flip flops back and forth rather quickly...

"What color is the boathouse at Hereford!?"

-Sam

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

TOTALLY DISAGREE about Ronnie not speaking up. Even during seasons 1-5 when Ronnie seemed to be nothing more than a walk-on extra he rightly deduces the threat Armadillo represented whilst the others laughed it off. He tells Vic to cut Shane loose before he can cause any more damage but Vic still thinks he can save him. In the last season it's Ronnie who checks Vic when he was gonna kill Mara (a total b!tch yes....but she was pregnant at the time) So I think Ronnie speaks up for things that are not in his (if not the team's) best interest.

I would agree with you however that he lacks the charisma of Vic Mackie.

You will have to remind me where he proved to be an ineffective leader because as far as I recall Claudette gave leadership of the Strike Team to Ronnie as a way of controlling Vic. Any foul-ups by Vic would show on Ronnie's jacket not Vic's...and besides insurbordination was Vic's thing not Ronnie's. He always toed the line

[–] Klockard23 10 years ago

Ronnie also came up with an alternate way of robbing the money train at almost the last minute in S2 (in 2x11.) Vic even dismissed at first saying that it was too late for changes, but when he heard Ronnie out, he realized his plan was not only doable but a preferable way of carrying out the robbery than his own was.

[–] execproducer22 10 years ago

TOTALLY DISAGREE about Ronnie not speaking up. Even during seasons 1-5 when Ronnie seemed to be nothing more than a walk-on extra he rightly deduces the threat Armadillo represented whilst the others laughed it off. He tells Vic to cut Shane loose before he can cause any more damage but Vic still thinks he can save him. In the last season it's Ronnie who checks Vic when he was gonna kill Mara (a total b!tch yes....but she was pregnant at the time) So I think Ronnie speaks up for things that are not in his (if not the team's) best interest.

Like I said Ronnie maybe more analytical, but he ALWAYS goes along with what the team wanted even over his own instincts...Thats why he ends uo with grill marks and ultimately in jail.

What I'm saying is he never pushed hard enough to be heard. He might of said some things, but he always went against his instincts which ultimately caused his downfall...

You will have to remind me where he proved to be an ineffective leader because as far as I recall Claudette gave leadership of the Strike Team to Ronnie as a way of controlling Vic. Any foul-ups by Vic would show on Ronnie's jacket not Vic's...and besides insurbordination was Vic's thing not Ronnie's. He always toed the line

Like I said look up the episode in season 7. Claudette berates him for ineffective leadership and he flip flops on some decisions he made at first because of that beratement.

"What color is the boathouse at Hereford!?"

-Sam

[–] pfarnell 10 years ago

never knew his second name before..

certainly he always seemed to be the adult in the room so far as the ST went, maybe partly as a virtue of having the fewest lines, never having his own storyline that I can recall, and not being 'accident prone" like the other three members, especially Vendrell.

Maybe that's also why we were shocked and nauseated when ultimately Vic sold him out cold for a cheap deal for himself, without him having done shyt wrong to deserve it

[–] keyvenx 10 years ago

It's not that he would have made a good leader - he would have made a DIFFERENT kind of leader.

Ronnie was more intelligent but I would argue not as cunning. He also had less morals and charisma than Vic, so even if he was the better leader, would guys like Lem and Shane follow his lead?

Maybe Ronnie would have made a solid detective - more like Dutch (without the wussiness).

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

I would argue the opposite and say Ronnie was as cunning if not more so than Vic. I haven't seen anything to suggest he had less morals than Vic (aside from the fact he REALLY wanted to put Shane in the ground as opposed to Vic who faltered at the last minute)...but as I have stated previously even he drew the line at shooting Mara.

I don't really see Ronnie having a problem getting Shane to follow his lead as Shane was a programmable lapdog who would follow the Tooth Fairy as long as he got a pat on the head. I agree that getting Lem to follow his lead would be more problematic though.

[–] PreachCaleb 10 years ago

Ronnie was definitely as cunning if not more than Vic. Don't forget, he was the only one that Kavanaugh couldn't find anything on. No, shady funds. Nothing crooked. No brutality reports. Nothing.

If it weren't for the other guys, Ronnie would never have been a blip on I.A.'s radar.

I don't think he had less morals than Vic. He seems to be cracking a little after he killed the guy in the motel, and Vic is the one who talks him into pushing it back and not feeling the guilt.

Straightedge means I'm better than you.

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

Really?....that's really interesting. Would you mind telling me what episode Kavanaugh comes up with nothing when investigating Ronnie PreachCaleb.

[–] PreachCaleb 10 years ago

Damn, I can't remember exactly which one. If I'm not mistaken, Kavanaugh was interrogating all the Strike Team members one at a time.

He shows Vic all the photographs of Terry Crowley's murder. He tells Shane that every penny is accounted but that nothing is left over so how is he paying for the day to day stuff, gas, groceries, etc. And we know what he had on Lemmy.

But when he gets to Ronnie, he tells him he couldn't find anything because he's been very careful. However, he warns him that because of the others' carelessness, he'll go down "for a mistake you were too smart to make."

Straightedge means I'm better than you.

[–] shivalrous 10 years ago

Yeah seen it now. Quite a throwaway line..no wonder I missed it. Ronnie also makes the point that they should all get separate lawyers as kavanagh wouldn't be able to handle four attorneys poking holes in his case at once......but we all know know how that played out unfortunately.

[–] Klockard23 10 years ago

Four separate lawyers probably wouldn't have made any difference... Kavanaugh would still have the same "evidence" against each of them but their individual lawyers would only be looking out for their clients' interests.

[–] PreachCaleb 10 years ago

Four lawyers would've made a huge difference.

Each would work to find out a different way to discredit evidence, get it thrown out, or poke holes in Kavanaugh's theory. What one misses, another might catch.

And Kavanaugh would not have the same evidence. Remember, he had nothing on Ronnie other than he was a member of the Strike Team.

Four lawyers could've dragged the case out for years. Only Lem would be the one in the biggest danger.

Straightedge means I'm better than you.