MovieChat Forums > The Shield (2002) Discussion > Speculation here, but Ronnie would NEVER...

Speculation here, but Ronnie would NEVER be convicted of much...

posted 8 years ago by al666940-3
19 replies | jump to latest

SPOILERS

In show finale, upon being arrested for "the last 3 years":
- What do they have on him? Only the dropping of money to Corrine, and Vic's testimony

So in my opinion, he would only get convicted for obstruction of justice (the money bag), since it's stated it's Vic's (not even Ronnie's), so his only actual crime is delivering it. Nothing else. LITERALLY.

And as for Vic's testimony, it's his word (a cop killer) against Ronnie's (an accomplice after the fact) unless Shane's detailed confession/memoir resurfaces (not likely, Vic burned his copy, same for Ronnie, and Shane's is locked somewhere no one knows, and his threat of it showing up on IAD's doorstep if he died seems a bluff considering his limited friends and resources). And even then, it's the testimony of ANOTHER cop killer, one too dead to be cross examined (so most likely, INADMISSIBLE).

So without that, they only have Shane's suicide note, which 100% blames himself and Vic, not Ronnie's. Plus:
- Who had unaccounted cash and lawsuits up the butt? Shane and Vic, nor Ronnie (Kavanaugh said as much).
- Who just admitted to a catalog of crimes? Vic, not Ronnie.
- Which one is suspected/guilty of worse crimes? Vic (cop murder), not Ronnie (accessory after the fact). So it's not like they cut a deal with a devil to bring down Satan himself. They cut a deal with Satan that resulted in bringing down a minion for covering up Satan's crimes. The drug bust alone can't justify giving full immunity to a cop killer (Olivia stated as much that they could eventually bust that cartel without Vic's help).

So you can see how any defence attorney would have a field day tearing apart Mackey on the witness stand and trashing ICE in the press (giving full immunity to a cop killer). Heck if competent he would literally summon Olivia and her boss to the stand to tear them a new one for the deal they cut with Mackey.

Prosecutors would be pressured to spare ICE more embarrassment and cut a deal with Ronnie (they already were ready to do that with Lem, so it's in character).

I just don't see him going away for life without taking a LOT of people with him, people whom would have the juice and will to avoid that at Ronnie's sentence's expense.

[–] BendItLikeBender 8 years ago

I pretty much agree with a lot of what you wrote. Of course, Ronnie's fate was never really about "how much time he would or would not get," it was simply about Mackey losing his last (and only true) friend. The one person who never crossed Vic, never sold him out or tried to burh him, who was a loyal soldier until the very end gets to see what kind of friend Mackey really is. Push comes to shove, Ronnie was right: "What about the goddamn team?" It was always about Mackey, number one. And, to a lesser extent, his family. But yes, in reality, your assertion is right and, if anything, I'd like to think Ronnie would not only serve VERY little time, he'd probably serve none at all - termination and most likely probation; certainly not a lengthy prison sentence.

[–] al666940-3 8 years ago

Spot on.

Some people say "what about when he asked his lawyer squeeze to have him switch places with Lem if possible" in season 5?

If you see that scene closely, you'll realize it's a seduction scene really:
- Becca is vulnerable, unsure, and accepting she would be a better friend right now than lawyer.
- Mackey has that confident stud look on his face (showing himself the selfless team leader)
- Mackey takes off right after slipping that mental roofie (always leave them wanting more until they're ripe)

Tell me I'm wrong. He's got her eating out of his hand at that point, and he sure doesn't pass up the chance the next time they meet.

So that line was more about seducing her than actual legal directive (she never EVER acts on that suggestion, so she clearly took it like I did). You think he's really going to request get sent to jail and leave his kids bills unpaid over a team member? He sure didn't do it for Ronnie (at that point he still thought the kids and ex were still in the picture).

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

I'd like to think Ronnie would not only serve VERY little time, he'd probably serve none at all - termination and most likely probation; certainly not a lengthy prison sentence.

Enough to cost him his badge, pension, and any other worthwhile career in law enforcement once he's out.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] al666940-3 8 years ago

Sure, but so? Beats eating sausage links and eggs like a cell b!tch...

Do you think Mackey will fare any better after his 3 year contract is up with ICE?

Pezuela only proves that there's plenty of career opportunities for hardcore ex cops, especially former Strike Team members. Plus Ronnie clearly has brains to do something else (I'm sure he can operate the washing machine, remember Season 2, episode 3 where Mackey can't even get that to work unassisted).

[–] BendItLikeBender 8 years ago

Mackey was a shark, he kept swimming and, like any good shark, always found his way through the current and out of danger. He'd more than likely have a price on his head from all the gangs, and law enforcement would be of no assistance, but his ability to wheel and deal with the best of them would more than likely land him on his feet.

To a lesser extent, Ronnie would probably fare almost as well but I don't think he has that "raw power" that would allow him to worm his way into a cushy situation - he'd more than likely have to earn it.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

Sure, but so? Beats eating sausage links and eggs like a cell b!tch...

Yeah, but it doesn't mean Ronnie's going to have a good life or not live in misery.

Do you think Mackey will fare any better after his 3 year contract is up with ICE

Who knows. No prison record. Head of a Strike Team. 3 years with ICE. His resume's not too bad. And not every place calls for references when hiring.

Mackey's real problem is he has no one left.

Ronnie, however, is screwed out of doing anything meaningful. That prison record will follow him every where he goes.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] al666940-3 8 years ago

Maybe you're right. A lot can happen in those 3 years (Olivia and her boss might very well get fired/transferred due to the embarrassment they caused by giving a cop killer full immunity, and who knows what new boss Mackey might find himself under then, someone whom may have better use for him maybe, like captain Rawlings?).

Oh well, that's the great thing about a great show well ended: it leaves you wondering and craving for more (read somewhere that an alternate end scene for Dutch was scripted to have him holding people prisoner in his basement to show he's gone off the deep end with his serial killer obsession).

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

I noticed that Vic attracts people who really do not have a family.

Excellent observation I'd never noticed before. No wonder the Strike Team was such a cult of personality when it came to Vic.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] al666940-3 8 years ago

Agreed.

[–] balducci2 8 years ago

"I noticed that Vic attracts people who really do not have a family."

That may be. But I think it may also be that people with no family or a bad family life would be the ones attracted to that sort of work in the first place.

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

Within The Shield universe, you're supposed to go along with the idea that one of the ST members confessing to any or all of their past deeds is enough to send any of them to jail. Otherwise, Shane's murder of Lem was entirely pointless. So yeah, Ronnie is going up.

[–] al666940-3 8 years ago

"Within The Shield universe, you're supposed to go along with the idea that one of the ST members confessing to any or all of their past deeds is enough to send any of them to jail"

Not 100% true. Remember Gilroy? He confessed to save himself, yet his say alone wasn't enough (hence the wire).

However after that things changed by the time Lem was arrested:
- The team altogether was coming under more and graver allegations and suspicions of wrongdoing (money train, Margos, Antwon).
- Mackey's reputation was still stellar in mid season 2, in season 5 it's ruined and he's being forced into retirement.
- Aceveda's position is higher and more powerful, and Mackey's run out of protectors and friends.
- Shane is married with kids, and thus much more unreliable (his top concern ain't the team anymore).

Plus when dealing with a team, it's like a dam: one crack and the whole thing comes crashing down (guys start pointing and counterpointing fingers, run to secure the better deal, etc). That's why Shane was dangerous in season 2, 3, and 4, but after season 6, he's not anymore (Ronnie says as much and thus Vic pushes the issue out of revenge and their own safety since now Shane won't think twice to kill them too if he feels the need after crossing that line). Ronnie states as much that Shane's accusations at this point (season 7) cannot be backed up (no Lem/Tavon) against Ronnie/Vic if they stick together, and Vic says their reputations will be ruined and careers (but doesn't say prison anymore).

With only Vic and Ronnie left, it's he said he said. No one to corroborate each one's version (pretty much all witnesses are long dead or discredited, money train cash is gone, etc).

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

Cute of you to ignore the part of my post that supported my point.

"Otherwise, Shane's murder of Lem was entirely pointless."

Put it down to inconsistency on the show's part, but the show obviously doesn't (always) play by the exact rules of the real world. Plus, as long as a jury is convinced you're guilty of something, then they can still declare you Guilty. A jury may wonder why Vic would be confessing to such a wide range of heinous and unethical crimes (especially reluctantly so) if they weren't in fact true. And I'm not sure there isn't any evidence left over either; Indeed, Guardo's charred skeletal remains would still be located in the spot where they buried him, with Vic's bullet still lodged into his skull. They might still be able to acquire some DNA evidence left over from when Vic, Shane, Ronnie, and Guardo were inside the abandoned house where they killed him. That would prove that crime to be a fact, while would certainly make the rest of his story regarding the other things more plausible as well.

Either way, much as I loved Ronnie's character, I still think the ending works better with as much drama and tragedy as possible, and so I prefer if Ronnie did go up the rest of his life. And it's doubtful he'd end up murdered in prison anyway; The Money Train robbery was a federal crime, which by default would send Ronnie to a federal prison away from all the major (and minor) gangs who may want to do him harm. Remember Lem wanting to confess to doing the whole robbery solo just for this very reason in the season five finale?

Also, in regards to Gilroy's involvement, he didn't actually commit any crimes with the ST, nor was he present at any of them, and I'm not even sure Vic told him any of the things that he and the others had really done. He certainly lied about killing Terry. That's much different from someone confessing to things that the other team members he's ratting on were present at as well.

[–] al666940-3 8 years ago

"Shane's murder of Lem was entirely pointless"

It was for both Vic and Ronnie (they never even broached the subject), but Shane being too chicken and hotheaded didn't feel that, and went for it.

Plus Lem is a much more sympathetic individual (he has way less suspicions on himself than Vic/Shane), way easier for a jury to believe him over the rest. That's why Kavanaugh went after him and not say Shane.

"Vic's bullet still lodged into his skull"

You don't really think he used his police issued, do you?

"They might still be able to acquire some DNA evidence left over from when Vic, Shane, Ronnie, and Guardo were inside the abandoned house where they killed him."

After Aramboles spending there over 24 hours, whatever evidence is long contaminated and beyond use (when he's shown there, I looked around and there was no trace anywhere of Guardo's blood on the walls, meaning they did clean up). Like that episode where somebody got shot up in the street and a civilian traces his body with his daughter's crayons for the cops (he removed the victim since she was still alive in order to try to aid her) but neglected to redirect traffic. Good luck getting any evidence under all them tire tracks...

"he didn't actually commit any crimes with the ST"
No?
- Passing to Vic the nugget about Terry securing a Justice deal alone makes him accessory to whatever Vic did afterwards.
- Killing the gangbanger that Vic kidnapped on his behalf, then planting his body on enemy turf.
- Orchestrating with Vic how to cut the chain of evidence regarding Shane's lost drug packet that Julien reported.

Look, it's all guesses and conjectures. And indeed the show was wise not to delve deeper into Ronnie's fate (best show ever along with BB). I'm only making an educated guess here.

[–] wel_da_war 8 years ago

Like that episode where somebody got shot up in the street and a civilian traces his body with his daughter's crayons for the cops (he removed the victim since she was still alive in order to try to aid her) but neglected to redirect traffic. Good luck getting any evidence under all them tire tracks...

Just nitpicking here lol, but that's not accurate. The victim was already dead. He said that he moved the body because it was a high traffic area and "she would have been a pancake by the time you guys got here" or something like that. That's why he did a body outline with crayons. I'm not 100% sure but I believe it was Claudette who responded and said "Couldn't you have just redirected traffic instead?" or something to that effect. The point is that by moving the body and her purse (he outlined that too lol), he contaminated the crime scene and particularly the body.

I'm still reading the main argument, but just had to stop to point that out.

No questions. No answers.. You just accept it and move on.



[–] sawfan1414 8 years ago

The Shield is Shawn Ryan's show, world and characters. It's not reality. He has said Numerous times that Ronnie gets life in prison, that's what happened.

[–] zooymtoo 8 years ago

Ryan says that because it emphasizes the tragedy and devastation that befalls everyone that was close to Vic. And it works for the isolation that we leave Vic with and the monster we should see Vic as.
Ronnie may get life...maybe... but there's no way in any reality that Ronnie will actually do life. As stated previously...there's simply no one left or enough crucial evidence remaining that would make it stick. But, ultimately, Ronnie's life is still pretty screwed.