MovieChat Forums > The Shield (2002) Discussion > Finally finished it all (spoilers)

Finally finished it all (spoilers)

posted 8 years ago by rabbitmoon
15 replies | jump to latest

I've been watching from the pilot sometime in January and just finished, watching every episode on the crosstrainer in my garage gym (with a big TV).

Perhaps its because of all the hype for the ending, and the hype that seasons 5-7 attracts, but I wasn't as blown away as I was hoping to be. I thought Shane's arc was pretty powerful, but Vic's left me a bit frustrated. I thought something more impactful was going to happen, rather than the more implied/ambiguous ending that we had. Like Crowley's family and people related to all the people he's harmed learning the truth and coming after him.

I also feel the show was a bit manipulative in how it crafted our perception of Vic - from the strong start with the Crawley killing (where he's definitely a bad guy) it goes almost too much the other way, to the point that the Crawley death is absolutely contrary to his character and seems really implausible in hindsight. He's always looking out for his team, and doing the decent thing by them, until his sudden betrayal of Ronnie which again felt against his principles and shoe-horned in as a way for us to hate him again, just in time for his comeuppance. I'm pretty sure he'd have warned Ronnie in some way, or set things up to appear that the deal had been breached, to push him to escape to Mexico as they did with Lem. It just felt too severe a character shift.

I found it hard to buy in to ICE funding a witness protection scheme for Corrine. Olivia would have surely preferred for Vic to make some kind of criminal move on Corrine so that she could have a new excuse to put him away beyond his immunity for priors.

I was also half expecting Dutch to turn out to be a murderer, that he did kill that woman played by Frances Fisher.

The last three seasons were ok, but I much preferred the earlier money-train subplot to all the gang/politics-negotiation stuff. I feel like sometime half-way through the series, it definitely became the "Vic Mackey Show" and let the interesting back-stories, episodic crime-case trajectories and supporting character politics gradually disappear. I enjoyed all that stuff, and was less interested in watching Vic be sarcastic with every line he said.

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

I personally loved the way the Strike Team imploded at the end, although the last image of Vic in a suit being forced to work a desk was kind of lame. lol All that we've seen Vic do and get away with, and that's what it all boils down to? Him just being a pussy boy in a suit?

There were a few other things that let me down about the final season: Passing up the great opportunity to have a scene between Vic and Aceveda where Acevada gets to look Mackey dead in the eye knowing he killed Terry, that Danny and Julien continued to be nothing characters, that they exchanged Pezula as the villain for that bloke Beltran, etc. But overall, there were still enough great and compelling things to make it my favorite season.

[–] Zoopi_Lala 8 years ago

I thought something more impactful was going to happen, rather than the more implied/ambiguous ending that we had.

I like the fact that the ending is so low-key. Sure, it would've been somewhat satisfying for Vic to die in a shootout after being a badass and saving Shane, or something, but that's the point: It would've been satisfying for Vic. The writers acknowledged that Vic, with all the sh!t he's done, didn't deserve to go out on his own terms, in a blaze of glory, sacrificing himself for his friends and family.

Instead, Vic is punished. Sure, the law isn't the force that punishes him, but he is still suffering for his actions. Vic has driven one of his best friends to commit suicide after poisoning his two-year-old son and pregnant wife; Vic has betrayed his most loyal comrade and sent him to prison; Vic has pushed away his wife and will never see his children again; Finally, Vic is stuck with a job that he despises for the next three years of his life. Vic was always desperate to escape the law, but he's now realising how useless freedom is when there's nothing else left.

I also feel the show was a bit manipulative in how it crafted our perception of Vic - from the strong start with the Crawley killing (where he's definitely a bad guy) it goes almost too much the other way, to the point that the Crawley death is absolutely contrary to his character and seems really implausible in hindsight.

Really? A few nights on the job would've been more than enough for Crawley. Vic would be off the streets within a week, unable to support his family. Killing Crawley was the only way out.

He's always looking out for his team, and doing the decent thing by them, until his sudden betrayal of Ronnie which again felt against his principles and shoe-horned in as a way for us to hate him again, just in time for his comeuppance.

Definitely not. Remember, when Vic betrayed Ronnie, he had just seen Corrine be arrested. Vic didn't know that this was part of Corrine's ploy, and was terrified that she would be separated from the kids. This was why Vic specifically asked Corrine to be granted immunity too.

Yes, Ronnie was a good friend, but Vic's first priority has always been his family.

I'm pretty sure he'd have warned Ronnie in some way, or set things up to appear that the deal had been breached, to push him to escape to Mexico as they did with Lem.

Except he couldn't. If Ronnie escaped before the arrest went down, it would immediately incriminate Vic. The deal would almost certainly be off and Vic would lose his immunity (and Corrine's, who Vic still thought was about to be arrested). Vic didn't care for Ronnie enough to risk sending his kids into care.

I found it hard to buy in to ICE funding a witness protection scheme for Corrine. Olivia would have surely preferred for Vic to make some kind of criminal move on Corrine so that she could have a new excuse to put him away beyond his immunity for priors.

I might be remembering this incorrectly, but wasn't Corrine's witness protection confirmed when she first started working against Vic (before Olivia knew all of Vic's crimes)?

I was also half expecting Dutch to turn out to be a murderer, that he did kill that woman played by Frances Fisher.

God, no. That would be a hideous change of character.

The last three seasons were ok, but I much preferred the earlier money-train subplot to all the gang/politics-negotiation stuff.

Personally, I think the last three seasons are what complete the show.

Yes, the first four seasons are entertaining, but Vic and the team rarely have to face any serious consequences for their actions. That's why I love the final three seasons. The Shield is no longer a show about a group of corrupt cops doing corrupt things and how they get away with it; it's a show about corrupt cops doing corrupt things and the consequences of their actions. Vic's crimes finally catch up with him and we get to watch as he loses everything he has ever cared for.

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

Really? A few nights on the job would've been more than enough for Crawley. Vic would be off the streets within a week, unable to support his family. Killing Crawley was the only way out.

Nonsense. Someone like Vic could have easily found a way around Terry that kept him from obtaining evidence while also figuring out a way to manipulate things so that Crowley ends up thrown off the team.

[–] Zoopi_Lala 8 years ago

Someone like Vic could have easily found a way around Terry that kept him from obtaining evidence

Maybe for a few days, but think of all the chaos that happens throughout season 1. It's highly unlikely that Vic would have been able to do his job satisfactorily while hiding from Crowley.

while also figuring out a way to manipulate things so that Crowley ends up thrown off the team.

Do you really think Vic was capable of getting Acaveda to throw his own guy off the Strike Team in a way that wouldn't arouse any suspicion?

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

Do you really think Vic was capable of getting Acaveda to throw his own guy off the Strike Team in a way that wouldn't arouse any suspicion?

Yes. It would have been easier back then because Gilroy was the assistant police chief and, being Vic's friend, woud have been of some assistance to him. There's also the chance of framing Terry for something and/or finding out he had a skeleton in the closet that he didn't want getting out and thus convincing him to leave the Strike Team of his own accord.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

Yes. It would have been easier back then because Gilroy was the assistant police chief

Acaveda was also working in conjunction with the Department of Justice. That's way above Gilroy's head. Even with his protection, Terry's not going anywhere.

You are sin.

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

They would if he didn't eventually produce any evidence for them. In that one agent's own words, Terry's requests to become a member of Justice were pretty steep, if Terry fails to take down the Strike Team and/or Vic finds a way to make Crowley look bad through some kind of clever manipulation, they aren't just gonna continue investigating them forever.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

Except the Department of Justice understands patience and playing the long game.

They know the new guy to a gang, or in this case the Strike Team, won't get any real evidence the first day or week. It takes months to build up an undercover case.

Taking down a group of corrupt cops would be worth the wait.

You are sin.

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

That's not a certainty. Terry and Aceveda on paper had nothing but what could be amounted to as mild suspicions (regarding the main point of investigation, which was Vic's relationship with Rondell Robinson), and if Terry failed to produce anything while Vic simultaneously made moves to make Crowley look incompotent, I could see them eventually giving up, probably sooner than later.

Also, Justice has no power over who is a member of the ST. That's all down to the Chief of Police, someone whom may not appreciate it very much that four of his cops are being investigated without his consent.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

and if Terry failed to produce anything while Vic simultaneously made moves to make Crowley look incompotent, I could see them eventually giving up, probably sooner than later.

But again, investigators know that a good sting takes time. Four cops are not going to show their hand after only a few weeks. If DOJ is involved, it's because they know they're in for the long haul.

That's all down to the Chief of Police,

The captain of The Barn also has a say in it. That's why Terry was on, and later why Julian was on the team.

And while I'm sure the Chief of Police would not be happy about the investigation, he'd rather have the corrupt cops caught than allowed to run free.

You are sin.

[–] Klockard23 8 years ago

But again, investigators know that a good sting takes time. Four cops are not going to show their hand after only a few weeks. If DOJ is involved, it's because they know they're in for the long haul.

That's true of people you already "know" are criminals, not four cops with excellent records but no criminal ones. Justice was kind of going out on a limb with this whole thing to begin with.

The captain of The Barn also has a say in it. That's why Terry was on, and later why Julian was on the team.

And while I'm sure the Chief of Police would not be happy about the investigation, he'd rather have the corrupt cops caught than allowed to run free.

Unless he baulked at the idea of them being corrupt, and Vic made Terry look bad to the point where the Chief shut it all down by having Terry removed for a lack of evidence.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

not four cops with excellent records

Except the records weren't excellent. They had various brutality allegations that were suddenly dropped or the criminals reneged. Photo evidence of Vic being friendly with a known drug dealer. An entire team possibly being corrupt is worthy of an investigation.

Unless he baulked at the idea of them being corrupt,

Why would he balk without an investigation?

Vic made Terry look bad to the point where the Chief shut it all down by having Terry removed for a lack of evidence.

How would he do that? Make Terry stay in the van forever? That just gives fuel he's hiding something from him.

You are sin.

[–] Bhillis99 8 years ago

I was also half expecting Dutch to turn out to be a murderer, that he did kill that woman played by Frances Fisher.

Kurt Sutter was writing for the finale, and Dutch would walk in his house at the end of the day go down to his basement where there would be bodies. Shawn Ryan overridden that decision.

[–] rabbitmoon 8 years ago

I would have actually loved that ending. I don't think it would have been out of character for Dutch, confirmation bias would have allowed the viewer to tie all the little clues in.

[–] Naphthous 7 years ago

I also feel the show was a bit manipulative in how it crafted our perception of Vic - from the strong start with the Crawley killing (where he's definitely a bad guy) it goes almost too much the other way, to the point that the Crawley death is absolutely contrary to his character and seems really implausible in hindsight.

I kind of agree with this, although I don't think it drags the show down much. I don't think it damages a story to let us sympathize with the villain - the reverse, in fact.

his sudden betrayal of Ronnie which again felt against his principles and shoe-horned in

That's a reasonable reading of it, but I think it's also quite reasonable to read it as Vic never really was the paragon of brotherly loyalty that she posed as, and when push came to shove, he looked out for himself.

I was also half expecting Dutch to turn out to be a murderer, that he did kill that woman played by Frances Fisher.

Is that a criticism or just a side note? I had the same thought - it was foreshadowed way back with the cat killing - but I was glad they didn't write it that way, not least because it would've made Dutch an utterly incompetent murderer.