MovieChat Forums > The Guardian (2001) Discussion > How Come It Got Cancelled?

How Come It Got Cancelled?

posted 15 years ago by nyrocks25
69 replies | jump to latest

Does anyone know why the show was cancelled?

"Sometimes the only sane answer to an insane world is insanity." - X Files

[–] mollydtt 15 years ago

I have no idea why it was cancelled, but considering that I never knew it was airing on CBS back when it was in production---maybe they didn't promote it much.

Which seems to be a problem with a lot of quality shows on CBS.

If anybody knows why this was cancelled, I'll be looking for your post.

[–] BtVSP3 15 years ago

If I remember correctly it was the standard ratings issue. Not enough viewers.

let me hear you make decisions without your television

[–] catpeee 15 years ago

Having watched all of the three seasons of this, I have to say it is quality TV. Some of the storylines do seem to have been left hanging in the air. Things were never resolved in a lot of the episodes. But the acting and direction were first class. Compared to what is dished up to viewers these days, it's great stuff.

[–] Gary-161 15 years ago

Maybe it's better an audience is left wanting more than a series collapses exhausted over the finishing line like ER. It is unusual for an American series to have a genuinely interesting lead character, brilliantly sustained by Simon Baker. It's a testament to his acting skills that Nick remained as enigmatic by the final episode as the first.

[–] mollydtt 15 years ago

I agree--plus, I've always thought that Dabney Coleman was great in every character he portrayed. No ham anywhere, anytime with Baker or Coleman.

I thought the writing was consistently high quality, and the child actors were excellent.

[–] catpeee 15 years ago

This show is now, what, 6-8 years old. If you look back at old series of CSI and others, they are really flat and quite juvenile. The Guardian was consistently great. And it really hasn't dated at all. A great shame that CBS couldn't or wouldn't continue with it. But I could imagine playing a character like Nick would be quite depressing after a while.

Agree about Dabney Coleman - a fine actor.

[–] greenegg 14 years ago

My late mother turned me on to this marvelous series. I forget what it was up against, but I wasn't watching at first, then I became hooked. I was sorry to see it go. There is a bit of consolation with The Mentalist, at least, though that show's supporting cast is not nearly as good as the Guardian's. I sometimes hate CBS for pulling the plug on shows I enjoy, such as Family Law. Baker and Coleman, ably backed up by Moniz, Rosenberg, Sbarge, et. al. offered incredible intensity in their scenes together. I miss this show, but feel glad for the reruns.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops!

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 14 years ago

Offering my thoughts on the cancellation, and it's just from my own taste, I remember becoming really uninterestd by the thrid season. The first was great, I loved it. But they started making the show too much about Nick and his relationship with the gal (I cant remember her name) and I really didnt care about her at all.
One of the things that made the show so good to me was the awkward, yet still sometimes loving albeit disfunctional, relationship between Nick and his father (perfectly performed on both sides) and Nicks strained interaction with his co-workers all while trying to handle his new life working with kids that he really didnt care about...until he had to work with them. And this is what I loved about it...
But then it seemed to be too much about his "dating" relationship, and I frankly didnt care. Nothing different about that, I can find it in any show.
So for me it became something I sat down and watched if nothing else was going on, but it wasnt often in season three.

Bear in mind, this is no technical reason for it's cancellation, just my own thoughts on the happening of it. Hopefully when I get to rewatch everything I will enjoy it through all three seasons on disc.

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

I agree with Benborough actually. I love the show mainly because of Simon Baker (bearing in mind I'd virtually never even heard of him, had seen him in The Devil Wears Prada without realising it was him). His interpretation of Nick Fallin is just magnificent - you start by hating the character (he is a bit of an a**e lol), but by the end of Season 3 you really empathise with him and want to see more.

BUT, as Benborough points out, they really overdid with the love story between Nick and Lulu. To me, it was never really plausible anyway. Are we really meant to believe that hotshot lawyer falls for a girl who dresses like a 14-year-old boy (not that's she's not pretty, but she was deliberately 'styled' to look atrocious), not only that (which admittedly can happen), but she treats him like sh** and yet he keeps going back for more? When he could have had any girl he wanted...

Also as someone points out in a previous thread, I personally think there was zero chemistry between the two. So I kept asking myself 'how can this really happen'...and because they went on and on AND ON about that storyline in Season 3, the legal drama side really suffered. In the end I guess they saw it wasn't going anywhere, which is a shame because imagine a Season 4 with Nick Fallin in charge of Legal Services of Pittsburgh? But I guess we'll never know.

As far as Simon Baker is concerned, he's totally awesome in The Mentalit, of course, but I still think his performance as Nick Falling is even more memorable. There was such depth to that character, and it's such a shame that not many people watched him in that role.

[–] Gary-161 14 years ago

>>but she treats him like sh**

In what way? She made a commitment to him and he cheated on her after getting her pregnant! Don't forget this commitment came after a car nearly swatted her out of existence the last time she was assertive. That would shake anybody's confidence.

[–] sfcwo2 14 years ago

The show ended because Simon wanted out of his contract. He wanted to be with his family and focus on a movie career. How'd that work out, Simon? My wife and I watch Mentalist but still prefer Guardian.

[–] catpeee 14 years ago

Yep, the movie career is pretty poor, but if he keeps making crap like Not Forgotten and Book of Love.... However, Sex and Death was pretty funny. But movie actors are dying to get a decent TV show these days.

I'm off to shake the lettuce

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Personally I'd rather watch a good actor in a good TV show, where they can really make something out of a character, build them, get the viewers to really know them etc, rather than watch the same good actor in a succession of average movies. So I'm glad SB is sticking to a TV career at the moment as clearly good movie roles are hard to come by, in fact I'd go as far as saying that most movies these days are pretty average.
But I still prefer him in The Guardian to The Mentalist, even if TG is nowhere near as good as TM in terms of script and originality; it's just the character of Nick Fallin that does it, he had real depth and there was so much potential to explore. Shame we never got to do that, and by the end of it the show was going nowhere and they had to kill it.

[–] thrwmbsbgkdoepmcjrmrdw 13 years ago

I've heard that too. However I prefer The Mentalist over The Guardian. The Guardian is good and all I just like The Mentalist better.

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Unless I have missed more episodes than I thought (thanks to FIVE USA), when she's pregnant he stands beside her, even asks her to marry him. She goes all funny and says no. As a rebound, he then goes off with the other girl.

The way I see Lulu is that she wants to have her cake and eat it. (she also dressed like a 13 year old boy but that's beside the point lol)

But maybe I missed something (not being sarcastic...)?

[–] catpeee 14 years ago

Don't think you did miss anything. I think by this point of the show the scriptwriters had completely lost the plot. Characters disappearing never to be seen again, characters personalities changing from one show to the next. It was all very frustrating.

Lulu went a bit odd after the car crash and Nick was like a love sick puppy. When she didn't want to marry him, he did what most men do - find comfort in the arms of the nearest tart.

a psychic with a bad memory - go figure

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Lol Catpee your posts always make me laugh :-)
The scriptwriters totally DID lose the plot. You say "characters personalities changing from one show to the next" and that sums it up for me, especially Nick going from ladykiller heart-of-stone lawyer to, as you say, 'lovesick puppy'.

I'm a woman but I totally can't blame him for seeking consolation in the arms of the nearest tart as you say, I'm sorry but if you ask someone to marry you and they say no you've got to cheer yourself up somehow.

[–] catpeee 14 years ago

Indeed. And there are may women who would console him ;)

a psychic with a bad memory - go figure

[–] Gary-161 14 years ago

So much for sisterhood. Firstly, it's slanderous crud to say men fall into the arms of tarts the moment we don't get our way. As if we're all that lucky! Yes, Nick did "stand by" Lulu, but it was out of a sense of obligation related to his background and sense of propriety. Lulu picked up on that and didn't want it that way. When Nick confessed his infidelity to Lulu he cited her marriage refusal as mitigation. She threw it right back in his face and he knew it didn't stand up. That's why he got out of bed in silence.

The scriptwriters didn't lose the plot. What we have on this board is good old fashioned sexism. Even more inexplicable because it comes from women.

[–] catpeee 14 years ago

Oh Gary, it's only a TV show (and an old one at that). The character of Lulu was a pretty hard faced little bint. And yes, men think with that part of the anatomy which is not the brain.

a psychic with a bad memory - go figure

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Catpee you crack me up as usual :D
Let's not forget that the show is back on FIVE USA now...

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Now that I've seen the missing episodes, I can see how Nick's behaviour doesn't do his character any favours, after all he does sleep with Suzanne on numerous occasions (I thought it was a one off). However I still think LouLou was unreasonable in her reaction to his marriage proposal; she really acted as if he had insulted her. I think a lot of guys would feel overwhelmed by the sudden responsibility (baby on the way, commitment etc) so he was freaked out and went off the rails for a bit.

If the producers had made LouLou's character less irritating, I would certainly have more sympathy for the 'sistherhood', but as it stands I find it really hard, she gets on my nerves too much....

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

He tries everything he can to confirm the highly positive opinion he has of himself: 'I'm just not lovable. See?'
He should find some saint who just keeps forgiving him until he starts thinking he's better than he believes to be. But, being in his '30s I'm afraid it is a bit late.

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

I've watched a few more episodes again (working my way through all of S03), some I'd already seen. I still don't think Lulu's behaviour is reasonable when it comes to the baby (how she wants sole access to the Trust Fund etc) but I guess we could go round and round in circles about this.

Unfortunately human beings do make mistakes (even 'perfect' couples, they just don't tell you their secrets) and I think sometimes we are faced with the choice of either giving someone a second chance, or not giving them a second chance and discarding the relationship/situation etc.

In the show they portray NF as a really flawed human being, but with fundamentally a good heart. He felt rejected by his mother and his father and clearly hasn't learnt to deal with his own demons/emotions, although he shows the beginning of this process by the end of Season 3 (when he finally accepts couples counselling and when he realises that his actions *could* have been perceived as sexist/discriminatory at work).

Lulu punishes him until the very end when she even refuses to give his surname to THEIR baby, and I think that's really, really disappointing from someone taking the high moral ground. And explain that petty retaliation to the baby, one day?

I'm not religious but I really do believe in the words of Jesus when he said "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"...

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

You are right aboout Nick. He is flawed but he is a really good person inside. He probably is scared of his beeing good, because then he would not be guilty for his parents' rejection. And if he's not guilty then his parents are. And this is something he can't tolerate. Believe me. I was kept in a cage for the first three years of my life, lived in an institution ran by nuns who did not think twice before taking my Star of David from me and giving me an illegal baptism, and, while, cognitively speaking, I know they were mistaken, they were wrong, deep inside I still have doubts and feel I must have done something wrong. And, I was adopted when I was about 4 and a half, by loving people who tried their best to show me they loved me no matter what I did to prove them I was not lovable. And I did quite a few interesting things: when I cut all of the curtains of my home to tiny strips, it was considered such a minor crime I did not even got punished! Nicholas was alone most of his life. Still is. The rejection he feels when Lulu does not accept the marriage is unbearable, because it confirms his feelings that he is not wanted. It sounds like I'm talking about a little kid, but unfortunately, this kind of damage doesn't heal. You learn to adjust, but you never get over it completely. It's like you lack the ground from which to start climbing the 'growing up' mountain. And, more often than not, from time to time,when stress is heavy, you look for external sources of comfort. They might be over-eating, adrenaline seeking (that's what I do, usually) or they might be substances. The only times we actually see Nick slipping are:
1) when he leaves his father's firm
2) during the time he has sex with Suzanne (calling it a relationship would be too much of a stretch)
3) when Lulu walks away (what did he expect?)

By the way, I never perceived Nicholas as sexist/discriminatory. Throughout the series he stands for women. He's not person oriented, and tends to treat everyone very harshly. He did not want Lulu to marry Brian because Brian wanted her to leave her job and become a housewife! He always dates strong women. I don't think him being a sexist fit his character very well. THey just needed a pretext to make him leave the firm so that it could be easier for the screen writers to put an end to the show.

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Benjamin, your analysis is so interesting, and even more so by your willingness to share your experience. I don't think many of us can say to have had such a horrible beginning in life, and yet you are one of the posters who shows the most liniency towards Nick's character; you sum it up when you say 'the rejection he feels when Lulu does not accept his marriage is unbearable, because it confirms his feelings that he is not wanted'.

I think that was crucial in the development of the story. There are only so many times you can feel rejected like that and who wouldn't go off the rails? It's only that everyone has different 'highs' - for some people it might even be something apparently 'good' such as compulsive exercise (I remember splitting up from my boyfriend of 5 years, losing about 2 stone in weight and exercising myself to the ground so that I didn't have to THINK or FEEL).

Finally, I totally agree with you Ben about the issue of Nick's alleged sexist/discriminatory behaviour. I really feel that they 'shoehorned' that one in, just to have an excuse to oust him out of the firm; his character doesn't even seem to register the difference between men and women in the workplace; if anything, he just sees everyone as LAWYER first and HUMAN BEING second. And good point about the Lulu/Brian/housewife storyline, I'd forgotten about that.

[–] Gary-161 14 years ago

Nick seems to have had a fairly typical Middle Class up-bringing so I find all the talk of his childhood trauma somewhat missplaced.

The real love affair seems to have been between Nick and Alvin. Alvin has faith in Nick and Nick finally makes good on that "engagement."

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

Come on! After I was adopted, I lived within one of the wealthiest families in my city in North-Western Italy. My great grandfather was the first person in town to own a car and right after the war my mom was the only child in her class of 40 to wear tailored dresses, shoes and a leather schoolbag! I was lucky enough to attend the only American school (prep kind, but not boarding) in the whole region and spent my summers in the US. Does this clear the experiences I had before?

Nick was rich and went to private school. So what? Should that make him happy? The Agnellis are one of the wealthiest families in Italy. They are the ones who bought Chrysler last year, saving it from bankruptcy. One of the young Agnelli killed himself jumping from a bridge over a canyon, and another one almost died because of a coke overdose. Money does not make people happy.

Nick's mom abused alcohol and pills (wild guess: anti-depressants, or maybe valium, which was the most used drug in the '70s),his father worked all day. He got beaten up by an older kid, before he's 10 he watches his parents fight and, eventually divorce. Then his mom gets cancer and dies, and his father sent him away. His own father admits he never talked to his son. He does not even know whether he had a blankie when he was a baby. If this is not neglect, then what is it?

But I agree that Alvin really helps Nick.

[–] catpeee 14 years ago

"Money does not make people happy"

It's usually people with money who say that. There are plenty of rich people who don't stick coke up their nostrils or abuse drink or drugs. There are many poor people that do.

Would I rather be rich or poor. Whaddya think?

Ben, are you doing a thesis on the show? Your dissection is minute.

a psychic with a bad memory - go figure

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

LOL. Nooo. I'm not doing a thesis. I'm a physicist turned elementary school teacher. I'm taking a second degree in foreign languages just for fun -I'm taking English and Spanish, languages I speak since I was adopted- but I'm faar awaay from doing my final work, still have no idea about what I will work on. I still have to take my Italian examination, which I've been procrastinating for a few years because it scares me to death. Though I graduated from American schools, I'm still Italian, so I'll have to take the same test Italian students take after studying Italian language and literature for 12 years of schooling. I did a semester of that stuff and I did not like it a bit.

I just tend to dissect everything like that. And the guardian is easy for me to dissect, as I see something of me, the something of me I don't like, in Nick's character. Unfortunately. Not the coke. I did smoke a few joints socially, but nothing more.

About rich/poor. That's exactly my point. I mean, it does not matter whether you are rich or poor. You may have problems any way. Besides, I don't think Nicholas has a real problem with drugs, and he uses it to medicate himself on two occasions: after blowing the deal while at Cork and McGee, about a year after being busted, and when he takes blue mystic. Before, it's just a guy who does recreational drugs: he parties. He's not an addict. If he were, he would have slipped well before mid of season 1.

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Gary, if money was the only thing that prevented people from being truly happy, the world would be a very simple place. Unfortunately it's not. It's all relative; this is why the argument 'think of all the starving children in Africa' really doesn't cut it.

Someone like Nick Fallin would have come from a rather 'cold' middle class milieu; a workaholic father, a medicated mother. Rejection from both; boarding school; a career path laid out before him largely populated by over-achieving sharks; a large dose of edonism. No wonder the guy was emotionally retarded.

Like Ben, I tend to analyse things a hell of a lot, and I think we are meant to; there's too much 'subtext' going on in scripts to be random. Maybe certain aspects never get a chance to be developed in the final product but it doesn't mean that the writers didn't have a certain idea to start with.

Ben, I'm fascinated by your background. I am also Italian, although I left the country as soon as I was able to at 21 and went to university in the U.K.....and never left. Totally agree with your example of the Agnelli family, spot on...

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

Funny! I chose to stay and I could have gone to 4 different countries! I'm a national of a few countries: Argentina - though I'm not a registered voter, so I might have lost it. Really don't care much -, Israel- really don't care about the bombs, though-, Italy and the US. AMong Italy and the US, I could not decide. The first place where I was offered a job, I took it! But I do vote fro US elections.
I'm flattered you're fascinated, but there's nothing in it I really did.
Out of curiosity. Are you a physician? (from your nickname).

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Hi Ben
No I wish I was a physician (although I do love medical drama :D) but no, one day I needed a name for my World of Wacraft character and Esofagus popped into my mind. I guess a bit of Latin from my schooldays and biology lessons did the rest ;-)
The strange coincidence is that this year (over 2 years since my 'toon' Esofagus was created) I developed some weird symptoms that affect my aesophagus. Nothing life threatening but un-diagnosable. Life's weird isn't it...

Do you watch any Italian TV? I find it unwatchable now. And I can't bear watching anything dubbed either...I'd have to get everything from torrent sites if I lived there.

[–] Gary-161 14 years ago

>>If this is not neglect, then what is it?

A fairly typical Middle Class up-bringing, Ben. ;-) Just don't over-sell it, that's all.

I always thought this series could have done with more humour but in retrospect I think it was subtle. There was a funny scene where he joins this company and is put in a room with conspicuous dust. He gets so desperate he even asks Jake for a date! Another scene that was excrutiatingly funny was Nick going around apologising to everyone as part of his step programme. Needless to say it puts everyone's backs up and Baker's body language is just priceless.

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

Totally agree with you, Gary, about the humour. It was quite subtle, but it was there.
I think towards the end the 'weight' of the dramatic side took over, with the Down syndrome baby, the Lulu saga, the Shannon saga (awful) etc so it took a turn for the darker.
I think without Simon Baker's subtleties, it could have turned into a really depressing, dull show at the end.

Ben, I honestly can't imagine Simon Baker dubbed in Italian. My boyfriend and I refer to him as 'Squeak', as we noticed early on in The Guardian that his voice often 'breaks' into a squeak. Check it out and you WILL see what I mean. We have now watched ALL of his work (minus the Aussie TV shows) and he squeaks in everything, there's no way that could have been successfully replicated by a dubbing actor :D
And Nick Fallin speaking in a 'loud' way...nooooooo.....if he doesn't mumble it's not him!

Credit when it's due, the people who do the dubbing on Italian TV are probably better than most Italian 'actors' who often had no training. But it's still a really ham-fisted approach, I think in this day and age they should gradually replace dubbing with subitles, then Italians (and French, Spanish too) will get a chance to learn English properly, as they do in Scandinavian countries.

(Ben, thanks for the food allergy tip. I don't think it's food related as I tried variuos elimination diets, basically lived on brown rice for weeks in the summer to test it, lost about 8kg, still nothing. Doctor says it's 'globus hystericus', i.e. I feel something that just isn't there....*sigh*)

[–] catpeee 14 years ago

I agree about the whole Shannon thing. Utterly depressing.

Could it be Barrett's oesophagus or GORD. BTW, you could patent that brown rice diet...

a psychic with a bad memory - go figure

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

Italian TV I watch: the first 10 minutes of Ballarò, because after that I have to go to choir practice, and Annozero, and Luciana Littizetto in Che Tempo Che Fa. Nothing more. Some Sky TG24, sometimes, though I prefer reading newspapers. I watch satellite TV if they offer dual audio. I can no longer watch dubbed programs. I find that dubbing actors change the final product because they add their own acting. Simon Baker's Patrick Jane is totally different if you watch it in Italian or if you watch it in English. He sounds like a clown. And Nicholas Fallin is way too loud in Italian. Different personalities. That's all. When I am at my friends' house sometimes I have to restrain myself from shouting 'That's notallly not like him!'. I'm not saying anything against dubbers. It's like being a substitute teacher, hard work and little satisfaction. But, I'd rather not watch it.

About your aesophagus, have you been tested for food allergies? Sometimes they give very weird symptoms. A few years ago, one of my students developed a high fever that would not break. He was tested for everything, cancer included, and nothing was found, then only allergies were left. He tested positive for eggs. Usually allergies don't give you fevers, in his case they did.

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

>>I think in this day and age they should gradually replace dubbing with subitles, then Italians (and French, Spanish too) will get a chance to learn English properly, as they do in Scandinavian countries.

I don't think it's reasonable to have any hope in that. I teach English (and other subjects) at an elementary school. The head of the English department is a woman who believes herself to be like the ultimate English teacher and she's been chastising me for my American accent, to the point I only watched British film and television for a year to try, until I heard her 'accent': of course became 'off coorse', th, off coorse, became t, and other amenities.

However, I succeeded changing my accent and intonation, but when I broke my leg and had to stay home for about two months, I was bored and just watched whatever was on, mostly Yankee stuff. When I called my uncle in Canada he told me he was glad my American accent was back. I won't bother to switch it back to British any more. I even like it better that way. It's like being home again after a long trip. I sound myself again! LOL

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

>>I always thought this series could have done with more humour but in retrospect I think it was subtle. There was a funny scene where he joins this company and is put in a room with conspicuous dust. He gets so desperate he even asks Jake for a date! Another scene that was excrutiatingly funny was Nick going around apologising to everyone as part of his step programme. Needless to say it puts everyone's backs up and Baker's body language is just priceless.

The Dark, second season (I'm watching it right now). Nick is walking out of the eye clinic with his dad. As soon as his father mention the possibility of him going back to his habits, Nick, as usual, lashes out and basically tells Burton he's as bad as Nick himself. Two seconds later he asks his father if he wants a ride back to the firm, and he looks surprised when his father chooses to walk.
Same episode, earlier, at Nick's home, Nick tries to make his dad comfortable while, at the same time, worrying for his furniture: he puts a pillow under his dad's feet so that the table does not get ruined and finds an ashtray because Burton has been using a coaster. ANd then, he throws the ashes onto the floor.

Also, I find it exhilarating when Alvin talks enthusiastically about his recovery or about being his sponsor and does not even notice how Nick is embarassed. Like when he gives him the Staying Sober book.

And, when Nick apologises to his dad, tells him all those serious stuff, clearly trying to find all the courage he can, and then his father apologises too, 'for whatever I did'...

[–] Esofagus 14 years ago

That's interesting because most Italians when they try do 'do' an accent they tend to mimick the American rather than British. I think it's actually easier, and also they hear stuff in songs, etc. Also some English words have historically been pronounced in a made-up American way in Italy: 'apple' becomes 'Eh-pple' ('E' like 'echo'), 'club' becomes 'cleub' (like 'ebb') and so on.

My dad, who is in his 70s and grew up with the songs of Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra, still sounds like someone out of a New York Mafia Movie when he speaks English, despite having had lessons by a British teacher for the last 10 years.

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

>>That's interesting because most Italians when they try do 'do' an accent they tend to mimick the American rather than British. I think it's actually easier, and also they hear stuff in songs, etc. Also some English words have historically been pronounced in a made-up American way in Italy: 'apple' becomes 'Eh-pple' ('E' like 'echo'), 'club' becomes 'cleub' (like 'ebb') and so on.

>>My dad, who is in his 70s and grew up with the songs of Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra, still sounds like someone out of a New York Mafia Movie when he speaks English, despite having had lessons by a British teacher for the last 10 years.

LOL! Guess those that watched the Godfather will sound exactly the same!

Well, culturally speaking, I'm American. I attended an American school, so all my teachers from K on (I started at PK but they moved me up immediately) were American.

Nowadays, it's the British accent they want. All the ESL CDs are in British English. That was one reason more I wanted to switch, because the more language gifted students of mine (2 out of 25!) started noticing I said things differently from the textbook CDs and asked me which way they had to tell things. It took me 18 months to switch, and 2 months only to go back. LOL

[–] ypl3 14 years ago

i think david hollander should seriously consider doing a 4th series. nick fallin working working in LSP, Lulu forgiving Nick (she's been too hard on him), how they cope with their special needs child (perhaps Lulu gets pregnant with another kid??), Burton doing some consultation work/ granddad/nanny to granddaughter.... some more kick a** legal/social issue stuff??

Simon Baker shines in The Guardian but not sure about The Mentalist... isnt the latter just a copy of Agatha Christine's Pierot??

I like Wendy Moniz but dont see her much on tv.

[–] benjaminredcloud 14 years ago

Why should Simon Baker leave The Mentalist, when it's so successful? Besides, the show was cancelled six years ago... it's hard to pick up from there.
BTW I love the Mentalist!

[–] over_there 14 years ago

Now that he makes that much money with The Mentalist I doubt he would return to this show.

[–] wombatkidd 12 years ago

And he cheated on her *because* she refused to marry him and spent thier entire relationship sending mixed messages. it's not fair to blame either of them for that, they each own 50% of their problems. And that's how the show treats them which is one of the reasons I like it so much.

[–] moonstruck4 12 years ago

yes yes the relationship was not interesting. The writers didn't even seem interested.

[–] khatalyst 11 years ago

I think the point of the last season was to keep taking things away from Nick until he bottomed out. Someone in one of the earlier seasons described him as spoiled. No matter what kind of father Dabney Coleman's character was in Nick's childhood (and his main gripe against his father seemed to be leaving his mother), Nick got nothing but support and forgiveness from his father as an adult. Except for the one scene, after his cheating on Lulu came to light, when his father yelled at him and told him to grow up.

Another writer called Nick's character enigmatic. I think he was less that than closed down, in a long-term bitterness that became a kind of habitual, self-indulgent sulk. No one else's issues were sufficiently poignant to break through that thick veneer of aggrievedness. Yes, when pressed enough, he would do the right thing, and there was some intellectual, if not emotional response to unfairness or other wrongs. But for the most part he had retreated into a kind of machine-like logic that made him a "great lawyer," but not much of a human being. He would keep his word, sometimes, but seldom because he cared, just because it matched some internal logical structure.

All this was consistent with the personality of an addict, who never admits or takes responsibility for what he's doing to himself or other people by his flights into drugs, violence, casual sex or whatever else he's using to deal with his pain.

That shell began to crack in the second season when Lulu got pregnant. The whole drama around her rejecting his marriage proposal was essentially driven by her history with her father. She resisted being used or manipulated. She could get emotional responses from Nick. The marriage proposal and his stilted statements about loving her fed into her unwillingness to trust without clear evidence that he was trustworthy, and for her, that included his opening up. Coming up with a ring, just because she was pregnant, could be read a lot of ways. And when this frustration with him came up, she tried to goad him into saying why he wanted to marry her. He as usual withdrew and did something to make himself feel better -- which finished off her trust.

That was the backdrop to what happened between them in the third season. Yes, Nick went into rehab and maybe had a lasting breakthrough in psychedelic episode. But it wasn't enough. He was still running on robotic autopilot. No matter what happened to him, he really didn't change, or not enough.

So the writers kept taking things away from him. The story line with his father and the adoption was part of that, the division of his father's attention. The final disaster at the law firm, and meanness on his part that triggered it. It was the karma of the "spoiled" sulking man and the compassionless-addict working its way around to bite him. Even his half-assed attempt to rush his way through the twelve-step program, and handing out "apologies" for things people never understood he did to them, was part of this.

Through the course of this season, we see him reluctantly and slowly emerge as a consciously feeling and committed person. At the end, he's still Nick, but he's dealing with losses in a better way, and making new kinds of decisions.

People ask why they canceled the series. I think they ended the series perfectly. On the right note, and appropriate to what Nick Fallin's real life challenge was.

BTW, I loved this show. Watched all three seasons on Netflix over the course of a week, and feel like I've lived with these people as family. I'm recommending it to everyone I know.

[–] wsitu 13 years ago

Go back to page 2 or 3 of this board, to the thread "This show is SO OVER!" and you'll see what people were complaining about back in 2004.

Nest is best.

[–] altcharlol 12 years ago

If they picked it up (which is never going to happen) I'm not sure I would watch it.

The only reason I endured season 3 was because of baker. Then again, I could watch him in ANY role because he's so pleasing to look at...

[–] jsmjpc 12 years ago

i remember reading an article saying cbs wanted the guardian to lighten up and make their stories more positive...not sure if that is the reason for the cancellation though...

[–] kmiketic 12 years ago

This show was scheduled against the ratings juggernaut of 24, and it was scheduled at 8 PM (Central) before Judging Amy on then third-place CBS, still at that point the home of cerebral dramas that found an older audience. I was hooked (in my 20s at that point) as was every woman at my workplace... Simon Baker used to be so incredibly sexy!

[–] samcloth 12 years ago

I remember that at the time, the network supposedly grew less happy with the story lines that focused on do-gooders, poverty/wealth, and other class issues. They apparently thought this negatively impacted ratings.

[–] scamper67 12 years ago

I'm not condoning Nick's behavior, but when he kissed Lulu in that house before she got married, she kissed him back, so I can understand her being hurt but what right does she have to act so morally superior to him? And that episode where he apologizes to people, Suzanne acts like she is a victim but she is the one who came on to him, she was a slut who didn't care that he was already in a relationship so what gives her the right to talk down to him?

Neither of these women had any right to throw stones and I almost got sick when they started chatting like friends, Nick could have done better than both of those morons.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] scamper67 12 years ago

I can't answer that because I don't remember that scene, but a camera man being seen in such a situation is not unusual so it could have been on purpose.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] free_storm 12 years ago

Simon Baker is still very, even incredibly, sexy to this day. I'd just like to point that out.

[–] bunny3k 9 years ago

Amen to that!

3k

[–] free_storm 12 years ago

2012.

Personally, I think some of the points made on this post has been interesting and at times all correct - for a lack of better word.

So I'll just stick to the show and what I made of it. S1 and a bit of S2 was really good. I still think the premise was amazing. However S3, for me, was just not that interesting. I'm sorry that I could not point a specific episode as an example because every time I tried to watch them I just become disinterested. The thing is, one of my pet-peeves of S3, was the dialogue became predictable. The characters became caricatures. The only one making sense happens to be the very uptight reserved person and that's Nick.

As an audience that is omnipresent, privy to each character's life/ story, you can't (or at least I couldn't) help but feel frustrated and helpless for Nick. He's the guy who has difficulty opening up which always lands him trouble because people are not happy or comfortable with it. Yet he, at quite a few episodes in S3, became the go-to person for everyone. At one point he even remarked to Lulu that he doesn't sleep much, while I, before this admission, was thinking, where does he get the time to be himself let along sleep? Every time he is on the crux of opening up, during poignant moments when it was absolutely necessary, he gets shot down. Then there were many episodes where he gave a sincere apology to whoever it is that deemed themselves offended by him by telling them what they want to hear. He's just agreeing to them and then saying sorry wherein, as the audience (at least for some) can see or tell that's not exactly how he felt. I believe, in the whole expanse of the show, the only one who made any progress or growth was Nick. In S3, if he wasn't on screen I was, frankly, very disinterested. I just decided to sit through the whole season because I'm that kind of person that has to finish what I started. Now, right now at this moment, I'm the person who didn't have sleep....

*sigh* What I'm saying is - in short - people in the show, apart from Nick, are just too self-absorb. They keep telling him to open up, let people get to know him. But whenever he tries, people tell him to go away or they just don't want to hear him. How can these people who say they care for him not want to know about him?
i.e. Lulu might have seen or suspected a side of Nick that does certain things because he feels it's his obligation like his marriage proposal. Didn't help his course when he went and slept with that other woman. But the point is that Nick has other aspects in him. For one thing he's got strength of commitment and genuine care. You can see this guy cares (btw, well done Simon Baker). I partly thought that the marriage proposal was given strength by the pregnancy, as in he wanted to be with her and was happy to give her what she wanted but he probably did want to marry her but didn't know how to go about saying it. The pregnancy just created a situation, as it is Nick's character, to which to approach the topic. Know what I'm saying?
Another instance was in S1 when he wanted to adopt the little girl with the heart problem. You can tell he was serious and by the things he opened up to her, you suspected that he's just looking for someone stronger to open himself or be around of.

Anyways, that sexist lawsuit filled against him... I don't think or see him in any light as a sexist. If he made remarks like the lawyer person said to him at the interview in front of the partners, I thought it wasn't personal. If anything he acts like that around other men, if nit-picking, during client-meet ups he gets shushed a lot because of his frankness.

Well, S1 felt real short to me even if there were 22 episodes because if it there were some major flaws, it did not have bad dialogues, the storyline and characters were engaging, and it moved on a good phase.

I read somewhere that this TV show shouldn't be watched back-to-back. Now I understand why.

If you ask me, what reeled me in the first place to the show was Nick's first remark to Laurie after she made a slur about his suit. When Nick said what he said, you know this guy didn't want to be there but he means business and he's going to see it through whether he (least of all people) wanted to be there.
Plus there were good little playful quips - what happened to those in S3? If it wasn't for the good performances on Simon Baker and some of the guest stars I won't have smiled at all.

Anyways, that was a whole lot more than my 2 pence. No offence meant here if there is any that seemed like it - but at this point I'm just mad that such a good premise would end up like this.

Ps. any error on my part, I apologize, I tried to edit but I am sleep depraved on account that I really stayed up and watched the whole S3 back-to-back.. what do you do on days off? Sleep-in-late!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] free_storm 12 years ago

Like I said, I hardly tuned in by S3. But now that you mentioned it, I'm going to double check this episode out.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] free_storm 12 years ago

Lol - Ok I will. I haven't yet, I needed to recover the time I spent (tried) investing in S3.

Btw, notice Nick's sense of humour in S1/2? He was quick with retorts. For example, I really like the quick exchange between him and this girl (can't remember if it was the lady cop or Lulu):
Girl - I thought you didn't go for women (girls)?
Nick - I thought you did. (sly smile on his face).

There were a few of these interspersed in other episodes, i.e. Jake and Nick's little play with words after Alvin gets "left-handed" with a prostitute.

I really wish they mixed more humour in the series. Would have done it a world of good. Also, we all know that Nick has a devilish side to him. He's sense of humour is a good way of showing it.

In S3 they were trying so hard to make a drama out of every moment. Made you feel like pulling your hair. They tried to make up for it in the episode where Alvin and he go to Los Angeles, but then they want you to feel sad still/ too because they keep reminding you that Alvin was going to die, like you didn't know that after they've first spoken about it.

Where was the reprieve? Not just for the audience but the characters? I hardly see them smile. Well, Lulu smiles but she's a little batty. I understand her character but somehow the make-up of the character seemed more confused and flighty as opposed to independent, strong, and capable woman. I think they tried to approach her with the feminist ideas but somehow failed. My opinion.

Well, see! I need to take space from The Guardian for a day or two. I'm still fuming at how badly the series ended given that the premise and S1 was really good. I'm watching some re-runs of The Mentalist instead lol!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jimmyro 11 years ago

If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em.
Yogi Berra
Money makes the world go round.
TV has never been about art or entertainment.
Better shows have been cancelled.
The better question is; Why did the ratings drop ?
The schmalz got squeezed out. The writing declined. His vulnerable 'Duh' face got old. The storyline became too soapoperish... Same old, same old.

[–] davidsfrench 9 years ago

Having just watched S3:19 were the new female lawyer remarks they are set up to fail because they are understaffed, then spends the rest of the episode looking for something to do (without any real success),it really looks like the writers were running out of sensible plot lines.As it worked out they did manage to close the show with a plausible completion, which given it's bright start was gratifying.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]