Okay, your comments are way, way out of line. Nothing I have ever said stated that sex was okay for teens or that it wasn't harmful to them. You quite obviously have a reading comprehension problem. I said that it wasn't necessarily not good and that it isn't generally harmful. There is a major difference that you quite obviously don't understand. What you have just said is a lie. Let's move on now.
Yes, you did say sex is a bad thing all the time. You accuse me of lying when the only liar is you. You said that sex with a minor is always abuse, always harmful. That is not true and that is most definitely what you said.
No, you are wrong. As I have already stated, the law doesn't say it's abuse, the law says it's STATUTORY rape. There is a big difference, there. You really should actually read the law, you know, because you don't even know what it says. Besides, what the law says and what actually is are two totally different things.
It seems you are the fool. For one, the source you bring up is Wikipedia. Completely laughable. For two, those children don't want to have sex. It is forced upon them. There is a big difference that you don't seem to realize. You cannot lump children who want and seek out sex with children who are sexually abused or have sex pushed onto them. That is completely insulting to victims who were actually abused, such as the victims in the 'child grooming' cases you bring up. What you just did is insult those victims. You should really feel proud of yourself now that you've insulted every single victim of child abuse. Good job at that.
Yes, children ARE able to and CAN make a conscious decision involving sex. You have proven with your statement that you don't understand children whatsoever. Good job there showing your complete ignorance, by the way. Just because the law says they can't choose for themselves doesn't mean they can't. As I said, what the law says and what actually is are two different things. Nice showing of ignorance on your part.
I never said I agreed with the LUG philosophy. From the very beginning, I said I completely disagree with it. It makes me sick. I never, ever changed my stance. You obviously have comprehension issues. How old are you, really, because everything you have written thus far makes you out to be nothing more than a mere child?
Really? And, what do you base this on? Again, research, victims, and all the laws of the entire world disagree with you.
I base it on actual facts. And no, research and laws of the entire world do not disagree with me, at all. Once again, you show how little about the laws of the world you know. I repeat again, the laws of the world do not state it's abuse. They state it's STATUTORY rape. What of this are you not getting? It is pretty simple. STATUTORY rape is not necessarily abuse. And no, not all victims of STATUTORY rape are abuse victims. Sure many are, but not all are. An article I've provided explained a couple examples of why they aren't ALL victims of abuse as you say.
How about you read about it. You obviously have not. Unless those lesbians have something called intercourse, they aren't really having sex. They may stimulate themselves sexually but can't actually have sex without intercourse. That is the key requirement for sex. Please, you were supposed to have learned that years ago, right. Lesbians may not agree with me, but it is a simple fact that sex isn't really sex at all without intercourse. That's where the whole LUG philosophy began. By the way, a Wikipedia source again. Why am I not surprised? I hate to tell you this, but only the simple minded and uninformed use Wikipedia as a source. I only use it myself if it's the only thing I can find.
Uhm, I'm not bringing up straw men at all. You are. You keep bringing up the straw man of what the law says, which completely ignores the feelings of a child. And again, the law doesn't state it's abuse. The law states it's STATUTORY rape. Once again, what of that are you not getting? A minor having sex with someone much older then them isn't always abuse. It is, however, always STATUTORY rape. There is a big difference there you can't seem to understand.
A minor's feelings mean everything because a minor's feelings will drive the minor's actions, not the law. Many times, a minor is going to care less what the law states. Once again, you have proven you don't understand children. And for the last time, I am stating facts.
Uhm, no, you're on another planet here. The law stating when minor's are ready is exactly like when predators say minors are ready. No one, I repeat, NO ONE can know when minors are ready for sex except for the minor. And the law is not based on research and experience at all. That's just a completely inane belief. I will say that it's based on the protection of children, however, and that I agree with.
By the way, it is a fact that the law is blind. That is the whole point of law. The law has to be blind. This is a generally accepted fact generally accepted by the majority of the civilized world. If the law weren't blind, the guilty would be set free on a daily basis. Do you want that?
Oh REALLY? Hmmmm... well lets quote your post:
Yes, and those quotes of mine say the exact same thing. Sex, even with a teen, GENERALLY isn't dangerous if done PROPERLY and INTELLIGENTLY. This isn't the same as saying sex isn't dangerous at all. You have the reading comprehension of a two year old, you know that.
You want me to stop throwing up straw men. Look up what the definition of a straw man is, please. The only one throwing them up is you. You keep throwing up the legal age of consent. That is a straw man that ignores the feelings and emotions of children. And in many cases, teens are under the age of consent, considering that teens are between the ages of 13 and 18 worldwide and the age of consent is about 15 in many, many cases, a 13 year old is below the age of consent in most cases. Please, and you want me to start stating facts. It might help if you start stating them yourself. So far, you haven't stated one.
Yes, the law argument is weak, and yes, it is an abstract ideal. Who do you think came up with the law? It is an abstract ideal made by men meant to help keep order in society. The argument isn't powerful at all. It's weak and it has always been weak. The fact that you think the argument of law is strong is completely laughable at best. Only simpletons and the uninformed think its strong.
I never said that there wasn't an age where sex is completely wrong. Comprehension issues much? I said that there isn't an age where people are all of a sudden magically ready for sex. Please, you need to go back to school and take some comprehension classes because you obviously have comprehension problems.
And no, a group of people cannot, I repeat, CANNOT determine when ONE person, in this case a child, is or is not ready for sex. That is up to each individual, not a group of people. The idea that it's up to a group of people is just sad and wrong.
And no, the determination concerning when someone is ready for sex is not based on any research or experience, at all. Where do you even get that idea at? It is based merely on the idea of protecting our children, nothing more. No research was done or experienced gained when coming to the conclusion because no research or experience was necessary. We want to protect our children. That's all that was needed.
The child wanting something isn't irrelevant at all. It is the whole point. The fact that you cannot see this shows only your own ignorance. And as I have said already, sex GENERALLY isn't dangerous when done PROPERLY and INTELLIGENTLY. I should repeat that since you have a hard time comprehending what this means that this ISN'T the same as saying sex isn't dangerous at all. They are two totally different statements.
Nice way to insult victims of abuse. You seem to do that a lot. If a child is talked into having sex by an adult, the child doesn't want to have sex at all. When someone is talked into something, they clearly don't want to do it. Only a completely naive person would think otherwise. A child wants sex only when he/she chooses it by his/her own will, not when it is pushed on him/her by somebody else. Stop insulting abuse victims. It is unbecoming.
In the case of your best friend, who I might add you just insulted, he didn't really want sex, at all. It was pushed on him by his grandfather. There is a major difference between when the sex is pushed on the minor and when the minor actually wants it that you don't seem to realize.
Those groomed into sex don't 'want' it as you claim. Once again, sex is pushed onto them. You don't seem to get the difference, and because of that continue to insult actual abuse victims.
A child IS old enough to decide when he/she is ready. Your view is completely against that of half of Europe, including France, as well as most of the world. If the child isn't harmed in any way by having sex with an adult, which I do agree is wrong, than it isn't abuse. It is, however, still illegal and is always STATUTORY rape. This doesn't make it abuse, however, and the law states STATUTORY rape, not abuse. It only becomes abuse if the child is harmed in any way whatsoever. Please, look up what abuse is.
And I'm the one who's too stupid to continue with? You hide behind straw men, cannot comprehend what I write, call me a liar when I haven't lied once, don't even know what the actual laws state, use Wikipedia as an official source, continue to insult victims of abuse by lumping them in with those who aren't abuse victims at all, and are too ignorant of the different worldviews on this planet. Yeah sure, I guess since I deal in the real world and actual facts, and since you deal in your own imaginary world that you wish existed, I'm the stupid one. LOL
By the way, as for that children aren't old enough to decide when they're ready comment, you clearly don't understand children at all. They most definitely are old enough to make their own decisions. Heck, in the Netherlands, they're old enough to decide when they're ready for sex by the age of 10. By 10 years old, they can decide for themselves if they're ready or not. You know why? It's something called maturity, which you have shown you have none of. You have also shown that you think all children are immature. In the Netherlands, they are first taught about sex as young as 5 years of age. Because of that, they are much more mature concerning sex by the time they're 10. And that's why they have reduced pregnancy, abortion, and STD rates than most other developed countries.
Okay. Time for me to turn this back around at you with your final statement. I'm done with you. You are clearly too stupid to continue with. LOL I mean, you insult a child's ability to comprehend, you insult children who have actually been abused, you insult a child's ability to choose for themselves what is good for them, you have called all children stupid and unable to think for themselves, and, most of all, you think the law knows better than each individual person what's good for him/her or not, which is completely laughable at best.
Okay, fine, you can be done with me all you want. I'll continue to live in the real world where there are actual facts and children are actually conscious beings who can think for themselves, and you can live in that imaginary world of yours with your made up facts where children are nothing but sheep and someone as ignorant about the world as you can lead those sheep children to the doom that is coming to them with you as their Shepherd. I feel sorry for those children of yours, concerning the fact that they will never come to know the real world.
News flash, you are wrong. The sad thing is, you don't know how wrong you are. I guess the fact that you continue to use Wikipedia as an official source explains it. Instead of getting all your supposed facts from Wikipedia, you should learn about what the world and, also, what children actually think. It will certainly open your mind to the truth. You are evidence as to why America doesn't have as good a standing worldwide as we used to. You are yet another close-minded American, and I've met many of them. If it weren't for the more open-minded Americans, I'd have half a brain to move out. It is simply sad how ignorant and uneducated we Americans have become. You are proof as to how sad it is. I have hope that open-mindedness will finally win out because though I disagree with many political policies in many European countries, they most certainly are more open-minded than we are, and that is actually a good thing.
Question for you, and I ask you only because everything you have stated thus far has shown complete ignorance as to what the world actually believes. Can you locate France on a map? For that matter, can you locate North America? Yes, that's right. I said North America, not the United States. It should be a lot easier for you to locate. Don't answer these questions because you have no way to prove to me that you actually can. I only ask them because you have shown nothing but complete and utter ignorance, and you have shown that you cannot comprehend a single thing I say. I say one thing, and according to you, I mean something else entirely. Please, how old are you, really? I thought you were much, much older than me. Your ideas, incorrect facts, and misunderstanding of laws tell me you can be no older than 5 years of age. If that's the case, you should go to school a few more years before claiming to know anything.
I'm out.
Learn something before responding back, please. Your post has only shown one bit of stupidity after another.
One last thing. STOP INSULTING CHILD ABUSE VICTIMS!!!!! IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
and STOP INSULTING CHILDREN!!! IT, TOO, MAKES ME SICK!!! Children CAN think for themselves. They CAN and they DO know when they are ready for sex. The law is only there to protect them from actual predators. Most people worldwide know this, and most people worldwide have accepted this. It's a reason Europe is much more sexually liberal than America. It's also one of many reasons many European children are much more mature concerning sex than American children. IT MAKES ME SICK WHEN PEOPLE KEEP INSULTING CHILDREN AND CALLING THEM STUPID. CHILDREN ARE NOT STUPID. THEY KNOW VERY WELL WHAT THE DO AND DON'T WANT, AND THEY KNOW VERY WELL WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM. THEY AREN'T ALL DUMB INDIVIDUALS WHO DON'T HAVE A BRAIN. MANY TIMES, CHILDREN ARE SMARTER THAN THEIR PARENTS, AND WE, AS ADULTS, CAN LEARN A LOT FROM THEM!
Sorry for all the yelling. It just makes me sick when obviously ignorant, naive, stupid morons, such as yourself, equate children to nothing more than stupid sheep who can't think for themselves. You have done nothing but insult them and call them stupid. Good job insulting children. Good job showing your complete ignorance of what they feel. We cannot, I repeat, we CANNOT decide for them what they want or don't want. That is THEIR choice, not ours. We can only inform them of both the good and bad consequences to their actions, and contrary to what you so ignorantly believe, sex DOESN'T always have bad consequences, even for children. In fact, according to an article I provided from an actual expert on adolescent health, Pierre-Andre Michaud, chief of the Multidisciplinary Unit for Adolescent Health at the University of Lausanne Hospital in Switzerland and a leading researcher in European teen sexuality, sex can have some very positive affects. I'm not advocating minors to have sex, however. I'm advocating the fact that they CAN choose for themselves whether they're ready or not. Just because the law says they aren't ready to choose doesn't actually mean they aren't ready to choose. That law is just there to protect children from actual predators. The Law of it isn't the Fact of it. You really need to realize that.
ALL HAIL THE HIGH QUEEN!!!!!
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