Why didn't Astrid's mother want her to be happy?? - White Oleander (2002) Discussion

[–] Nothin_But_the_Rain 10 years ago

Because she was deeply selfish and a borderline sociopath. As far as Ingrid was concerned the whole world, including her daughter, were there for her amusement.

"Why is it that every time I need to get somewhere I get waylaid by jackassery?"

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[–] toastygoodness 10 years ago

Yes, I agree on the Borderline coupled with big time Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Its a nasty thing and real as anything.

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[–] happyphantom9 9 years ago

I wouldn't say borderline sociopath, she was full on Antisocial Personality Disorder (the modern clinical term for sociopath)!

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[–] Venus-25 10 years ago

People like Ingrid cannot handle other people in their lives being any different from themselves or having different experiences of life. They think their own lives and feelings are the only valid ones. That is the nature of narcissism.

The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

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[–] cpoet 9 years ago

If you were separated from your child and wound up in miserable circumstances, I can see where you might be inclined to try and keep the mother-daughter connection going. If you encouraged her to move on with her life, bond with a new family and live a happy life that didn't include you, it would mean giving up another chunk of the life you used to have, besides your freedom, independence, choices, etc. You'd have to love your child more than you loved yourself to make that sacrifice. Ingrid fell short. . .and then she finally stepped up.

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[–] narratology 9 years ago

What I found unbelievable was that at the end of the flick, she suddenly and completely uncharacteristically *does* want her to be happy. What pointless and destructive rhetoric! Anyone who's had to deal with that much of a sociopath in their own immediate family knows that hoping for moments of kindness from them is akin to masochism, full-on enabling, and almost better than guaranteed further trauma. Self-sacrifice ain't in the sociopath dictionary.

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[–] fiatlux-1 8 years ago

To a large extent, you're correct. Sociopaths do think only of themselves.

But Ingrid showed spots, here & there, of not being completely sociopathic.
I think she was just an intensely selfish person, with Borderline Personality Disorder.
She did abandon her daughter yes, but she also came back for her a year later.

Someone who is 100% sociopathic would not do that, (unless of course there was inheritance involved, etc. which there wasn't)

Ingrid came first in her own mind, she doesn't really love her daughter like she surely thinks she does.

But the fact that she ultimately chose to stay in prison, instead of letting Astrid commit perjury proves she does care....a little.

I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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[–] narratology 8 years ago

I think that to imagine a change of heart could occur for the character of Ingrid based on what transpired leading up to that point is tantamount to magical thinking, a dangerous game for anyone but especially for persons in the sphere of someone of that ilk. The character of Astrid wouldn't have believed it if it didn't happen, but viewers are invited to more wantfully believe in the possibility through the dissociated nature of proxy.

I didn't notice any signs of genuine love preceding her sudden magnanimous gesture. As far as I could tell the only love she exhibited was narcissistic in nature, existing only inasmuch as her blood daughter represented a diluted expression of herself so that looking upon her allowed Ingrid to enjoy a modicum of the same kind of self-love that Narcissus himself once found gazing at his own reflection in the water.

But I suppose this is what most Hollywood movies are for: veering us away from reality into a consumer-driven dream state, instead of appreciating what more humanely nuanced benefits more likely realities might otherwise afford us. In that Hollywood is probably the largest provider and supporter of the narcissistic construct, the lie of Ingrid's supposed real love in its own best interest. Long live the Hollywood movie ending.

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[–] NiLi007 8 years ago

She had exactly zero symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. She didn't cut, wasn't often depressed, wasn't overly dramatic, her mood didn't change from one moment to the next. She thought constantly of herself. Textbook narcissist all the way.

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[–] NiLi007 8 years ago

Exactly. A woman as narcissistic as Astrid's mother would never agree to "let her go". The only kindness a narcissist ever shows is fake kindness for the benefit of other people who are watching. Unless they are putting on a show pretending to be the world's greatest mom/husband/teacher/whatever they are only worried about themselves.

The ending was a huge disappointment, and I was already disappointed by the huge plot hole of the foster parents that never actually would have been allowed to foster. Michelle Pfiffer and Alison Lohman were great in this movie. Their stellar performances are what saved it.

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[–] 8 years ago

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