MovieChat Forums > Gosford Park (2002) Discussion > Isn't a Crime of 'Attempted Murder'Commi...

Isn't a Crime of 'Attempted Murder'Committed?


I don't recall seeing this point being raised here before and if it has been I apologize.

But, it has always bothered me that Mrs. Wilson is motivated by a desire to protect Parks from the crime of murder.

This she successfully does, and much is made of the fact that "it's not much of a crime to stab a corpse".

In reality, is that true? My understanding is that attempted murder is a serious crime in itself, and nothing Mrs. Wilson did clears him of that crime.

Of course, the story wants us to believe that neither of them will ever get caught. Still, there seems to be a flaw in Mrs. Wilson's logic that she has saved him from jail. She has saved him from the more serious crime, but not from a crime.

Any thoughts on this?



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I don't know, we should really get a lawyer in here to answer those questions.

I think the difference is that he's already dead. Attempted murder is a crime, but only if the person is alive. I don't know if attempted murder on a corpse really is a crime, even if the would be murderer thought the person was alive at the time.

There was a murder case in Sweden in the 70's, where a man bludgeoned his wife to death. He said he was drunk, and that she "fell on the kitchen stove, hitting her head very badly". Because they couldn't prove otherwise, he got off on it. Though, he had mutilated her body and hacked it up in little pieces and put them in plastic bags and had them thrown away. And he wasn't even punished for it, because mutilating a body after the fact wasn't even a crime in those days. Or if it was counted as a misdemeanor and he got a couple of month in the can, or whatever. The point is, if it's not counted as a criminal offence, there will be no punishment.

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As you say, it is perhaps a fine legal point.

Clearly, the intent was there.

If a person walks into a bank with a gun and demands all the money, but the bank has no money, hasn't a crime been committed all the same?

You raise the issue of the case in Sweden. Are there not laws against desecrating a corpse? Would stabbing a corpse fall into that category?

I'm not a legal expert but it seems to me that if you or I walked into the morgue and started stabbing the corpses, we would have to answer for it.




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You raise the issue of the case in Sweden. Are there not laws against desecrating a corpse?


There weren't then, but there are now. That's what was so horrible with that crime I mentioned. They couldn't pin the murder on him, and desecrating the corpse wasn't a crime. And that was in the 70's...


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it seems to me that if you or I walked into the morgue and started stabbing the corpses, we would have to answer for it.


Who would walk into a morgue with the intent of "killing" a corpse by stabbing it - the point would be. . .? Desecrating a corpse is a criminal offense, but to charge the assailant with attempted murder of a corpse in a morgue is ludicrous.

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I believe that what you are discussing would be called "desecration of a corpse."

There would probably be a fine and/or some prison time. Still that's better than murder. In 1931 England, murder was a hanging offence.

This question would arise with a vengeance following a viewing of "Murder On The Orient Express" (1974)

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[Isn't Robert Parks Guilty of the Crime of 'Attempted Murder'?]

It’s called the Impossibility Defence and it breaks down into two types Factual Impossibility and Legal Impossibility. Factual Impossibility is a defence that tries to assert that a crime was not committed because it was factually impossible to commit the crime. For example, let’s say that someone attempts to kill you by discharging a gun but it is not loaded. The argument would be that because it is impossible to kill someone with an unloaded gun there is no attempted murder.

That type of defence is generally considered not valid when applied to Attempt. In fact it is expressly prohibited as a defence for Attempt in a number of jurisdictions.

In New York for the case of People v. Dlugash (1977) the court ruled that a man who shot a corpse was indeed guilty of attempted murder because he believed at the time that it was a living person.

Thus if Robert Parks were prosecuted today and all the facts were known he would most likely be found guilty of attempted murder (plea bargain manoeuvrings for lesser sentences aside). Whether it is first or second degree attempted murder might be tipped by the fact that it was a corpse: while there was certainly premeditation (which would indicate first degree) there was no actual harm done (which would indicate second degree). A judge/jury would have to make a subjective decision on the sentencing, but it would likely be years in prison if not life.

It likely would be a very similar situation during the period the film was set. So his mother didn’t help him too much but what she did take off the table for him though was hanging. They’re not going to stretch your neck for Attempted Murder, unless of course it’s also treasonous.

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In New York for the case of People v. Dlugash (1977) the court ruled that a man who shot a corpse was indeed guilty of attempted murder because he believed at the time that it was a living person.


He could always claim he knew William was already dead.

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He could always claim he knew William was already dead.
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How would he then explain being in his library with a knife, which shows intent?

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simple. he could claim he found the knife in the study. decided to stab the dead body out of spite. fairly cut and dried.

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That's the defense I also assumed.

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The Dlugash case was based on a specific New York Statute that was adopted in the late '60s. I don't think it's relevant in a jurisdiction that doesn't have a similar statute.

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SPOILERS!!!!!!

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You really can't complain about spoilers in connection with a movie released 13 years ago.

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Well said. I'm fed up of all this stupidity around spoilers. Jesus was crucified

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Jesus was crucified?! I haven't read that far! SPOILERS!

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The movie seems clear that it was Mary that saved Mr. Parks from jail. She was aware he must have stabbed Sir William.
Mrs. Wilson’s only flaw was that she waited too long to do the deed. In effect she was not effective enough to prevent Mr. Parks from being culpable to a crime. He did not know Sir William was already dead, and so Mr. Parks stabbed him.
The movie gives Mary an out, that Mr. Parks didn’t commit the actual murder. Also, neither Mrs. Wilson nor Mr. Parks admit guilt to Mary. And in the end Mary repeats Lady Trentham’s conclusion that testifying in court would be unthinkable. Mary replies by asking 'what good would it do?'
To me it all seemed quite tidy and flawless.

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OP: How can you attempt to murder someone who's already dead?

Here's a better case: a man pushes another man off the roof of a tall building. While he falls, screaming, he's shot by someone on a passing floor. Who's legally responsible for his death?

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How can you attempt to murder someone who's already dead?


Because he didn't know he was dead.

Obviously, no one would attempt to murder a corpse. That would be illogical. You murder someone if you believe the person is alive.

So the intent was definitely there.




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Good point. I agree with you. Mrs. Wilson has only ascertained that her son is likely to get a lesser sentence than murder. He isn't off the hook entirely.

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by Franco_Zed» Good point. I agree with you. Mrs. Wilson has only ascertained that her son is likely to get a lesser sentence than murder. He isn't off the hook entirely.


I don't think anyone could be bothered with any of it. I think after the funeral, not much more was thought of any of it. Who cared? I think they both were off the hook entirely before anything ever happened. He made his bed and he had to lye (die) in it. Nothing to gain with any bother. All a bit of a poo-poo if you ask me.

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not true at all. first off, the inspector was still on the case, so they would at least have to bribe him heavily. second, louisa was clearly distraught and loved bill, so she would be invested in having the murderer brought to justice. at least they would need to frame some poor vagabond. lastly, we have mary who knows all the details, and could either accidentally blurt it out to constance or some other maid/servant close to the case (say, probert or jennings, for instance). or she could meet with elsie in the future and have a crisis of conscience when the matter of bill's murder pops up in conversation.

ultimately, unless the police were bought off, or a pansy hanged for the crime (or both), bill was poisoned AND stabbed, so it is a heinous crime in high society which would be sensational for a while at least.

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