NOTHING in this movie is historical. No where in Europe were more Jews saved than in Italy and by the Catholic Church. Around 85% of the Italian Jews were saved. The Church used false baptismal certificates and hid Jews in monasteries, churches, and the like.
shareFirst: this movie is not only about ITALIAN jews.
Second: the movie is not «historical» in the sense that all that is told really happened, it's more like a point of view underlined with some historical proofs. I believe it is right in the sense that the Vatican did not want to get in *beep* so they faked they did not know about all of this.
And hey, it's not the only time they messed up anyways! I won't get in a big discussion about all this here, and I certainly do not wish to insult any christians (even thought I could not care less about their religion), but the Pope's position about contraception in countries where more than 50% of the population have AIDS is not very bright.
when you say historical what do you mean? the holocaust? gerstein quest or gerstein character, maybe Höss? the church standing for the mentally ill and not for the jews? church avoiding to make a public statement condemning the Nazi? the zyklon b gas?
cause all this is for real? and the fact that the roman church saved a lot of jews in secrect its stated in the movie, so whats the incongruence? the fontana character? its stated in the dvd case's back that its a fictional character
So the person Kurt Gerstein never existed? the holocaust never happened? What exactly are you postulating was so historically inaccurate about the movie?
shareyou are dumb.the vatican helped ss officers escape capture by the allies and helped them move all over the world.watch the history channel i saw a doc. on it.
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Italian Jews, in comparison to those in other countries, suffered less, but most scholars agree that Italy had a relatively low Jewish population when compared to most other European countries. Some Jews left Italy for fear that Mussolini would start doing what Hitler was doing, even though he never enacted a full-scale operation against Jews. Had the Germans occupied Italy in the same way they did France and many other countries, the Jews might not have fared so well. Mussolini was NOT fond of Jews, but he was not constantly preoccupied with them as Hitler was. I have never encountered any evidence dealing specifically with the fates of Italian Jews. It is a frequent topic of scholarship. However, if the Catholic Church did in fact save Jews in Italy, that still doesn't change the fact that it did nothing to save Jews in Germany, Poland, and elsewhere, where it had a lot of influence. It signed the Concordat of 1933 and agreed to stay out of political affairs, as long as Hitler did not tamper with Catholic institutions (such as parochial schools). Bishop Clemens von Galen issued a sermon against Euthanasia, but that was the only real example of resistance from the Catholic Church. The Nazis did attack the Church verbally, villifying (and even arresting) nuns and monks, as well as some lower-level priests, but never touching high ranking officials, such as Galen. And yes, the Catholic Church did participate in the Odessa movement that helped Nazis escape Europe after the war. This was acknowledged by Pope John Paul II, and also condemned by him. He apologized for the Church's complicity in the Holocaust. Another horrible injustice by the Catholic Church involved its refusal to accept the homosexual victims of the Nazi regime, and even encouraging the government not to pay compensation to them, because not only were they still criminals under German law, they were also seen as sinners by the Church.
sharethanks for a smart response dugan62us that was very informative.
shareLearn to reply to the people that you want to reply to, YOU idiot. Using a message board, how hard can it be?
shareI don't understand the OP's criticism.
The film showed how the Vatican and the Italians saved the Jews. It was in the film!
That was the argument "his emminence" made when he was confronted about not working to save non-Italian jews.
He exclaimed that all over Italy, Jews were being hidden and taken care of by the church, monastaries and sympathetic Catholics.
The point was made in the film.
WHY CAN'T ALL YOU PEOPLE LEARN TO REPLY TO THE ONES YOU WANT TALK TO.
shareWhy do people act like such jerks on boards as this "overninethousand" -- did I reply to the right person? Think so.
shareYeah, it´s false, but not exactly for the reasons you mention.
I suggest those who want to know the truth read this:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p115_Hall.html
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shareI suggest that you take note of the publisher of this essay: the Institute for Historical Review, a well-known anti-semite group with ties to neo-Nazi parties, who produce ream after ream of biased "research" aimed at denying the Holocaust.
shareThe movie is based on Hochhuth's play, "The Deputy." When he wrote it in 1963 hardly anyone implicated Pius XII and the Church in the Holocaust. While the account may take some narrative liberties, its purpose was to bring to light a relatively unknown aspect of European complicity in the Nazis' terrible project. It succeeded and the debate rages to this day. It's a bit puzzling, however, why Costa-Gavras chose to stay so close to the play. I suppose that it's less a political statement and more of a character study now, focusing on the crises of faith experienced by Fontana, Gerstein, and even the Pope.
shareThe truth is often subjective. Facts generally more substantial.
But whether it is truth or factual, the film is a representation of a story, not a documentary and did a marvelous job in portraying this slice of the War, the Holocaust and the various roles within the differing groups: Nazis, German volken, Italian people, the Papacy, and the occasional American.
The only reason so many italian Jews survived the war was because mussolini never really had a problem with the Jews. He gave lip service to hitler about the "Jewish problem". It was only after BM was set up in a puppet government that italian Jews were in actual danger
Yeah, I agree that the Vatican was come under unfair scrutiny, trying to make it seem that they did NOTHING or actually aided in the holocaust......but THEY DID help jews......they simply never did s much as they COULD have done....not my proudest moment as a catholic.
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