MovieChat Forums > Dog Soldiers (2002) Discussion > A little too much undercranking...but it...

A little too much undercranking...but it's a decent film IMO!

posted 11 years ago by moviedude24
16 replies | jump to latest

I've only seen this film once, and since I'm a huge werewolf fan, I was expecting at least a good werewolf movie that had an interesting plot. Well, when I saw it after reading a lot of positive reviews, I couldn't help but be a little disappointed by some aspects. The main problem that I had was the fact that the director decided to use fast editing and undercranking for basically every suspense sequence which was a little shocking for me and it kind of affected the overall rating for me. Now, I realize that the filmmakers wanted to give the film a military-horror look and feel....but it was pretty distracting and ruined some well-directed sequences IMO. I'm not the biggest fan of undercranking aka fast-frames used in movies but sometimes it can work and sometimes it doesn't, at least in my opinion. Like I said, it is a decent werewolf film but I think if the editing/fast-frames weren't used as much it would've been a little better IMO.

[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

Can't say I noticed this undercranking thing much, myself.
I also didn't feel it was really a werewolf movie (serious or otherwise), so much as just a fun caper with British Squaddies.

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[–] moviedude24 11 years ago

Well, if you didn't know...undercranking is when they slow the frames down when filming the scenes, and then playing them back in post-production so they look 'faster'. It's the frame effect used in movies like Black Hawk Down and Gladiator if that helped, LOL. Anyway, I'm not really a big fan of that effect but in this movie I think the director overused that and it looked a little distracting when you would only see about 1-3 second shots of the werewolves per frame. It simply looked weird but I still think it's a decent movie.

[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

I didn't know the term for it, but I figured it from your earlier post

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[–] moviedude24 11 years ago

Well, do you agree about that? If you don't, that's cool I respect your opinion...but for me the fast-frame moments during the action scenes were the main reason why I only gave this film a 7/10 instead of an 8/10 IMO.

[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

Errrmmm.... I suppose I do disagree. Mainly because, although it is undercranked, I could still follow what was happening. I know what you mean and I've felt the same about other films, but this one seemed OK to me.

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[–] barneymoran 11 years ago

In which scenes was/were undercranking employed?

[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 11 years ago

ya, there was some under crank going on, he is mostly
referring to the man vs werewolf scenes, it is where the
biggest portion of it occurs.

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[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 11 years ago

British, uh, what?? squaddies?? what??
man, this is what I mean, what is with the
slang??

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[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

Squaddies - Dogfaces, Grunts, basic rank and file soldiers.

Films are filled with American slang all the time. Now you get to learn some of ours!

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[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 11 years ago

we may have slang, but only a few percent of us really use it.
but it seems over across the pond, most of you guys use slang, all the time.
like, for instance, we would call a group of soldiers like these
special ops(operations) or if I knew what branch of the military
they were in(if we were talking about US troops) I would say the
specifics, like Delta Force, Navy Seals, or Green Berets, which
is the closest thing that these guys in the movie resemble,
since they were def not regular army. regular army doesn't have
a group that small go on missions.

the guys that cooper was training with and met up with later in the
film would have been called a "black ops" force. which wouldn't
really have a name, being as how they were to secret. usually
with the CIA.

but back to the point, you guys almost all call the bathroom
"the lou", right? well we have a nickname, like "the john"
or "the head". but almost nobody says this, and mostly
seen in movies.

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[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

but it seems over across the pond, most of you guys use slang, all the time.

Err... yeah. And?
This is a British film with British actors who are talking British. What's the problem?

if I knew what branch of the military
they were in(if we were talking about US troops) I would say the
specifics,

In that case, they are The British Army.
These are regular soldiers, of a standard but unspecified infantry unit. They are not Special Ops of any kind.

the guys that cooper was training with and met up with later in the
film would have been called a "black ops" force.which wouldn't
really have a name, being as how they were to secret.

Those also were British Army, but the terms and language they use are tantamount to being an SAS Regiment (likely 22 Reg). They have nothing to do with MI6 (CIA equivalent).
Neither unit is named, probably for ease of filming, but most British persons would get the references, especially if they know who Andy McNabb is.

but back to the point, you guys almost all call the bathroom
"the lou", right? well we have a nickname, like "the john"
or "the head". but almost nobody says this, and mostly seen in movies.

I've been to Miami, Moab and Atlanta - Almost *everyone* called it the John or the Restroom. Only heard one person call it the Head and he was a Naval type.

Here the Bathroom is the room with a bath. The toilet (loo, lavatory, WC, Gents or Ladies, khazi, bog, etc) is usually separate. You will not find a room with a bath at a restaurant.
A rest room is where you go to sit or lie down for a rest, perhaps at a hospital or as a waiting room with better than just wooden benches.

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[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 11 years ago

yes, I know it's a British movie, I was talking more like
real life, which, well, er, this movie, like all movies
are trying to depict? if that makes any sense.

so you are saying that regular army would have only like
6-8 guys going out all by themselves to train??
I don't believe that would happen, every military force, no
matter where it is, always does things in large groups, unless
they are a special team. Why doe you say they are regular?
because of their uniforms? If it is the uniforms, than I
say that it was low-budget and they simply didn't have them
in the right garb. If its due to something they say
in the film, can you please direct me to the time reference?
and yes I am aware that wiki says that they are regular army, but
wiki isn't always right, that having been said, wiki does say that
the other guys are SAS. SAS would be doing an assignment for any
branch of your gov, as long as they were given the proper orders.
we know that they were out there to capture a werewolf. I don't see
that order originating from anywhere but some kind of clandestine
entity, like deeper than Mi6.

Oh and about the bathroom, restroom. regardless of whether we
rest or take baths in the room where the toilet is, we still
call it that. to be honest, the proper name, here or there, would
be the W/C, or water closet. oh, and what do you mean that you
don't have a bathtub where the toilet is, I'm sure some large
places may have separate rooms, but small places would be together
right? Its simple, it doesn't matter what doesn't have what in it,
it is still called bathroom/restroom here, which isn't slang, which
is really my only point. kind of like when we ask for a soda
here, we just say coke, even if it's an orange soda. like:
"hey, can you bring me a coke on your way back from the kitchen?"
"ya, what kind? Orange or grape?"
yes I know that doesn't make sense, but here in Florida, that's
how we roll. in other parts of the country, they might say
pop, or soda pop. which is actually slang, cause pop really isn't
a noun, but that's a northern weird ass Yankee(american) thing.

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[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

I was talking more like real life, which, well, er, this movie, like all movies are trying to depict? if that makes any sense.

.... Not really.
Can you explain?

If you mean whether we use the same slang you see in films, it depends mostly where you're from. Just about every region in England has different terminology for stuff and there's even more in each of Ireland, Wales and Scotland.
The Army is where you'll find all sorts of regional vernacular mixing, as recruits come together from all over the UK.

so you are saying that regular army would have only like 6-8 guys going out all by themselves to train??

Yep.
8 Infantry guys is one Section, usually commanded by a Corporal and split into two Fire Teams of 4. There's 4 Sections to a Platoon, 4 Platoons to a Company.
Also, this is just an exercise (as far as they think, anyway). Possibly what they would usually consider a 'friendly' between two different arms or units. They pick the best guys from the Company and send them off. Might also account for why a Sergeant is in charge.

I don't believe that would happen, every military force, no matter where it is, always does things in large groups, unless they are a special team.

If you say so... I didn't realise you'd served in every military unit in the world.

Why doe you say they are regular?

They'll likely be Parachute Regiment at best, but yes - Given the weapons and kit they use, they are most likely to be standard Infantry. Also the way they speak, the way they move, what they talk about... Oneof them didn't even have his own watch!! It's all just SO squaddie. I don't know how else to explain it.

If it is the uniforms, than I say that it was low-budget and they simply didn't have them in the right garb.

Err... that *is* the correct British Army uniform of the time, pretty much.
We've gone to this silly MTP crap now, but what you see on screen is bang on.

If its due to something they say in the film, can you please direct me to the time reference?

Err... just about *every* line spoken before they get to the Farmhouse, I guess. That's why this film is so popular - For once you have squaddie characters talking like actual squaddies!!
I am not going through the film line by line and giving you a complete breakdown of the evidence substantiating the fact that they are a regular Section of the British Army when you don't even know how the British Army works.
You want to know, enlist like the rest of us!

wiki does say that the other guys are SAS.

Quite possibly.
Cooper is being tested at the beginning of the film.
He fails and is RTU'd (Returned To Unit), ie sent back to the unit he came from.
He also speaks of being 'binned', meaning having failed. The only time that word really comes up is if you fail the SAS Selection course.

SAS would be doing an assignment for any branch of your gov, as long as they were given the proper orders.

The SAS are regiments of the British Army. They get their orders the same route as every other soldier.
Also not any branch... I really can't see the SAS being called in to handle a matter for the Deparment of Work & Pensions, ha ha!!
Then again, given how our lot like mis-spending taxpayers' money.... hmm.

we know that they were out there to capture a werewolf. I don't see
that order originating from anywhere but some kind of clandestine
entity, like deeper than Mi6.

MI6 operates overseas, just like the CIA.
MI5 is domestic, like the FBI.
However, fighting werewolves is not something any of those entities is really trained for, so the SAS, SBS or similar is about your best bet.

oh, and what do you mean that you don't have a bathtub where the toilet is, I'm sure some large places may have separate rooms, but small places would be together right?

Nope.
We still have many many many old terraced houses from the early 1800s, back when baths were public and working class people who couldn't afford big houses also weren't rich enough to have their own bath. You had to go along to the public baths, pay a few pence and basically rent the bath for an hour.
They have their own installed now, but the toilet is often a separate little room still. In fact, the smaller a house, the less likely you are to have room for a bath, toilet, shower and basin!
A good number in the countryside still have outdoor toilets, kinda like what you'd call an outhouse.

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[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 11 years ago

ok, the bathtub thing is just strange, so im done with that.

so ok, one more question, since you seem to know, like you either play
alot of video games, lol, or were in the military. what do you
mean its so squaddie, or they talk so squaddie, that's why the,
movie is so popular. can you translate that somehow. do you
mean they speak like they are really in the Brit army?
or by squaddie to you mean they talk like they are on
a team like on a team and they have been together for
awhile, kind of thing?
I really am not trying to be difficult, I like to know things
like anything, and everything, cause you never know when you
might need to know things, I'm kind of a, oh how-do-you-call-it,
like prepper is a new word I here people use here in the
states, like I try to be prepared with stuff. guns, body armor,
ammo, tasers, knives, high-powered led lights that go on your head,
does white, red and green, motion sensor, to save battery. lol
anyway. so I am into all army stuff. as you know, like we have many
movies that are very real "squaddie" (if I get your meaning), like
the new movie "zero dark thirty" supposed to be the most
real movie as far as what the characters are shown doing,
esp the last 20 minutes when the get bin laden.

anyway, that all I got

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[–] ttaskmaster 11 years ago

so ok, one more question, since you seem to know, like you either play alot of video games, lol, or were in the military.

The latter.
Playing computer games would only give me experience about the US military. I don't know of a single one that features Brits.

do you mean they speak like they are really in the Brit army?

Yep. The mannerisms, characters, dialogue - Everything is just what you'd expect from a typical soldier of the British Army.
The reason it's so popular in that respect is because most of the British public are similar - Almost everyone knows someone who's in the Army, Navy or Air Force, so the military culture permeates the civvy side too.

I'm kind of a, oh how-do-you-call-it, like prepper is a new word I here people use here in the states,

I know of Preppers. Some take it quite seriously... others, well...
I'd say you're more of a military enthusiast. Maybe collecting militaria, or reading lots of books about it.

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[–] Tuco-Benedicto-Maria-Ramirez 10 years ago

Just want to point out that the camera effect you are talking about was not achieved by undercranking, but rather by adjusting the shutter speed. An effect probably most famously used in Saving Private Ryan.

This pretty much explains it: http://cinemashock.org/2012/07/30/45-degree-shutter-in-saving-private- ryan/