MovieChat Forums > Ash Wednesday (2004) Discussion > Good Movie, one problem though (spoiler)

Good Movie, one problem though (spoiler)

posted 20 years ago by iceman_anderson
16 replies | jump to latest

Hey, I just saw this movie for the first time last night and I thought it was a good movie although we have seen it twice before (Carlito's Way and Empire) and I'm sure it has happened in other movies were the main guy goes clean but is dragged back in for one last thing and then at the end, when he thinks its all over, gets killed by the guy who had the smallest part in the movie.

Still I thought it was a good movie, even though it has sort of been done before.

[–] Wlfnhrslvrgrl 20 years ago

Well, as Shakespeare said, "There is nothing new under the sun." But you do have a point.

I chose nothing. I was born and this is what I am.

[–] LoveFest1969 20 years ago

I don't think that he though everything was over I think he knew that he was going to die, thats why he put on his brother's coat and hat....

[–] davidd-23 17 years ago

Thats exactly what he was doing, so it would take the heat of his brother, he deliberatly put the pcoat and hat on cos he new that there was big stuff going down. He felt guilty that he had *beep* his brothers wife and that his brother had saved him from a bad life. This is a dicotomy of love . This was a great picture and should have had more airing.
David T. Scotland

[–] bouvier_turtle 15 years ago

Actually, That was King Solomon in the book of Ecclesiastes. Maybe Shakespeare used it though. (:

[–] keyser_soze_08 19 years ago

Empire came out the same year as this so that can be ruled out.

[–] Dollhouse_89 19 years ago

yea. this movie reminded me of a couple of others, but i liked it.

"Happieness, something in my own place. I'm stood here naked and smiling I feel no disgrace"

[–] leftoverbot 18 years ago

There were other problems concerning the suspension of disbelief (discussed in other threads). One I noticed that I didn't see mentioned was the idea that Rosario acted like 3 whole years just faded away all of her feelings for her husband. Maybe at that age 3 years could do it but, I can't buy it if she was really in love. Then again she wasn't exactly waiting for him to return either. The soundtrack was a bit repetitive but, it worked. That mood is still in my head. This movie is nothing horribly bad and definitely not incredibly good. It is, however a nice picture. It was exactly what I needed in the middle of the night to accompany Mary and I. The colors, the eerie silence of the city, not to mention the sweet building fronts all painted a nice dreamy reality for me for a few hours.

[–] elgatony 18 years ago

I agree with the last poster. This is a good late night movie and it seems the networks feel that way too since both Cinemax and IFC have run this movie between midnight and 6am (it was on IFC last night at 6am as I write this). For some reason I keep getting drawn in and find myself riveted. Maybe it's Burn's performance or that haunting musical score. It could also be that dreamy cityscape I havent seen since "Urbania." Still, this isn't a terrible movie and although the plot holes have been discussed in other threads, my question is: did Burn's character make up his own shift hours at the bar? I'd love a job where I could show up 5 minutes before closing time after a trip to Brooklyn and my boss would be ok with that. Also, who's the sniper at the end? did he work for Malachy McCourt or Oliver Platt's character?

"He'll bring them death...and they'll love him for it!"

[–] Sjack585 18 years ago

I think you've missed the whole Catholic symbolism of the movie. Fran knew he was going to die (he even says to his brother, Sean that he has things to do to make sure its all over). Fran dies for his Sean's sins (and even his father's - he mentions paying for his father's sins earlier in the movie). He dons his brother's pea coat (his brother's sins), his watch cap (crown of thorns? - I know, that may be a stretch), he streches out to close the cage and he is shot. When the cop arrives and turns him over, he is laid out like Christ on the cross. His death frees his brother.

The shooter has to be a minor character - he can't be someone that knows that he killed the wrong man. I was trying to remember but I cannot not - who told him the Sean would be dressed like a sailor?

[–] leftoverbot 18 years ago

Yeah that shooter at the end was shown earlier in the movie. By the end I was so ripped I had already forgotten about that goofball sniper guy. I can't remember who he was scheming with now.

Hey, by the way, cool Catholic analogy, don't know how I missed all of that.

[–] roxiehart7 18 years ago

Francis knew he would be killed - and thats what he wanted - thats how i interpreted it anyhow. The sniper was someone who was very briefly mentioned earlier and was told that sean was wearing a black cap and peacoat so whoever was wearing that at the bar he would shot to kill. But we were made to almost forget about the sniper as it was such a fleeting moment.
Francis died for his sins because he felt like he would never be truly free from all the sins he did years ago.

[–] moviemaker928 18 years ago

I interpreted the movie much in the same way as you did, specifically the ending with Burns in a Christ like pose.

I think one of the guys Sean killed was the snipers brother. He had just gotten out of the service.

[–] signalcib 17 years ago

I think Francis knew he was a dead man. The way he reiterated to Sean that they would never see one another again, was also a message for Sean to not try to come back, because Francis was going to take the heat off of Sean once and for all. It's very symbolic that he puts on Sean's coat, if he weren't sacrificing himself, why wouldn't he put on something different. Either the shooter is supposed to think A) he killed Sean or B) there is an even pound of flesh upon the scales now.

[–] starky_flip420 17 years ago

yeah he was sacrificing himself. i just watched it - the sniper was working for moran (the fat guy who gets killed at the end..cant remember his name) and earlier he briefly went into francis's apartment and pulled out sean's i.d
the way i saw it, the shooter thought he was killing sean because burns donned his coat - or to look at it out of picture, the sniper would know he'd have to kill burns anyways.

ppl who say money is the root of all evil doesn't fu*king have it - Boiler Room

[–] BenAfweck 17 years ago

this actually came out a few months before Empire. so you havnt seen this already in Empire.

[–] Seven420 15 years ago

Good point, and no film is the same, maybe the plot yea whatever, but it doesnt bother me, its definatley no carlitos way, but this movie is really good, from the directing, to the acting, to the score, i enjoyed it.