MovieChat Forums > Gods and Generals (2003) Discussion > Did Political Correctness really cause t...

Did Political Correctness really cause this film to fail?


I would have to say no. After all this time, I think it is pretty sad that Director Ron Maxwell still thinks that political correctness is to blame for the critical and commerical failure of "Gods and Generals". I think the film ultimately failed due to a poor script and choosing to make a feature film instead of a mini-series. To go along with that I would have to agree with the original novel's author Jeff Shaara. He stated that the reason for the film's failure was that Maxwell put more effort into trying to be historically accurate instead of telling a good story. Also, Shaara thought that that was the advantage "Gettysburg" had compared to the prequel when it came to being successful with audiences and not just Civil War buffs. Thoughts?

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No, I remember when it came out it upset some people, but the reality is it was too long and too archaic a movie for the masses. It was never going to succeed as a movie. Now, as a miniseries it would have been well received.

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"Political correctness" is a nebulous non-concept that certain elements love to cite as a reason for ANYTHING. The real reason this movie failed is quite simple: it was a bad movie.

Gettysburg was amazing, and I have no problem recommending it to anyone. It balanced the two sides and focused on the very human struggle of the men involved. This one, on the other hand, was a throwback to the days when studios, in an effort to keep ticket sales high in the South as well as the rest of the country, made sure that you bought into the party line that the war was in no way shape or form about slavery, we've never owned or even seen slaves, and all the slaves love us. The ones we don't have.

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With trenches full of poets,
The ragged army, fixing bayonets to fight the other line

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This film (I'm speaking of the 2003 theatrical release here) flopped pure and simple because it's not very good. It suffers from:

-Poor editing. Many scenes occur that offer no explanation as to what they are about. For example, the scene where Generals A.P. Hill and Maxcy Gregg discuss the mutual grudge they hold against Stonewall Jackson, the movie never offers any explanation on what that grudge is about. For all we know, it might as well be because Jackson got a much bigger part in the movie than they did. I would almost think that this film was edited by an intern on his or her first day rather than by an experienced filmmaker.

-Lack of dialogue. You can count on one hand how many actual conversations take place in this three hours-plus movie. After that, all it is is just people talking while others listen. Perhaps this was the way people frequently communicated in the 19th Century, I don't know. Monologue and speeches can be very powerful in a movie, but this film could have used a lot more dialogue to make it much more dramatic and real to the audience.

-Pointless scenes. The movie could have done without stuff like Stonewall Jackson playing with a little kid or the two no-name Confederates. In the end, I don't think they added anything to the film.

-Bad history. It's nice that the uniforms and battle scenes are very accurate but the issue that brought on the War is not.

It is well documented in people's letters and diaries, in newspapers of the period, in the transcripts of speeches, and in the "Declarations of Causes" of the many Secession Conventions of the Southern states and in the actions of soldiers during the war that the South seceded from the Union, formed the Confederate States and fought the war to defend slavery and White supremacy. Yet in this film, none of those beliefs happen to make it to the screen. Characters- even many Northerners- are shown with modern racial attitudes. This may make them seem more appealing to us but as a historian, it offers no chance to understand why people believed the things that they believed. To be sure, slavery itself is practically invisible. Unless they all ran off by Decemeber 1862, I find it troubling that no slaves are featured at Moss Neck Manor, Roberta Cary Corbin's 1600-acre plantation, the scene of the Christmas party. I also don't buy the scene where Stonewall Jackson tells Jim Lewis that General Lee and others, in the fall of 1862, are seriously considering emancipation and enlisting Blacks as soldiers- something that did not happen until the very end when it was too little and too late.

Ron Maxwell, writer/director/producer of Gods and Generals, wanted this film to appeal to a mass audience. Instead, it only seemed to appeal to the neo-Confederate, Lost Cause element. Really too bad that a great opportunity to teach about the Civil War was wasted. Making a bad movie and then trying to blame its lack of success on other people's problems (i.e. "political correctness") is a shame.

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^^^^This. I had the dubious pleasure of sitting through this crap in theater...it was just a bad movie. They tried a little too hard to "re-create" what people said, but paid no attention to why they said it. Every character who opened their mouths during the film was spouting lines taken from some historical document. If you squint while watching you can just make out the spotlight on them, reflected int the eyes of those also in the scene who sit or stand in rapt wonderment at the magnificence of history coming to life...

Had to stop, ran out of sarcasm for the night. This movie was dull, dull, dull, with a little tedious thrown in for good measure. Any person associated with making this film should be ashamed of themselves.

I've got me git-finder set to pansy...

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So why didn't you leave and go see the Barney movie? A lot of people (me included!) love it for the historical aspect.
In short , grow UP.

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I've been a Historian for 40 years and I enjoyed it mostly. I could have done without the mild Whitewashing, but I've seen worse.

But I understand that not everyone is a Historian and see how this movie would have bored the average joe to tears. But then again it kept my ex wife's interest and she usually had the attention span of a gnat.

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[deleted]

I think Roger Ebert had it right when he said it was a movie primarily for Civil War buffs. There isn't much here to draw in a casual moviegoer. I'm sure politics turned some people off but that's far not the main problem. It's a very ponderous film that lacks much an entry point for the uninitiated. In Gettysburg you at least had relatable characters; in Gods and Generals you have talking statues.

"I had a big lunch that DIDN'T tempt fate!"

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I think Roger Ebert had it right when he said it was a movie primarily for Civil War buffs.

I'm a Civil War buff, and I found watching this film to be so overly tiring that I had to work hard just to stay awake. Dull, overly boring, too long, wooden acting, silly concocted scenes...this movie could serve as a sterling example for showing film students how not to make a movie.

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It's a generalization surely. I saw the film in theaters and thought it was the coolest thing ever - when you're a 14 year old Civil War buff you don't care too much about great cinema. I've watched the movie a few times since and found it intolerable. I still admire the period detail and the staging of the battle scenes but everything else is terrible.

"I had a big lunch that DIDN'T tempt fate!"

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I had a similar experience, fortunately with a much better film. I was about 12/13 when I saw Gettysburg in theaters, as a precocious Civil War buff, and was similarly amazed. Thankfully that one holds up a LOT better.

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With trenches full of poets,
The ragged army, fixing bayonets to fight the other line

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I'm a civil war buff but I was put off by this movie. It was a very stiff movie. All the characters were like marble statues quoting their own description-plaques.
Gettysburg was "warmer" in terms of characters. "GoG" was sterile..

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I for one loved this movie and am not a Civil War buff. I liked the history rather than hearing a bunch of dialogue. I had no idea it was as long as it was when I borrowed it from the library and watched it in sections but it went along so fast for me I couldn't believe it was nearly four hours! I would love to see the director's cut. As for making the South look too good they did not say that slavery didn't exist and they had the long time slave of one family say that they were good people and that she loved them but she wanted to die free and for her children to live and die free. I'm a Yankee who has lived down South for 12+ years and I can see both sides of the story which is that not every Northerner was a saint and not every Southerner a demon.

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Ron Maxwell is 100% to blame for this! The only thing it had in common with the book was the title and Stonewall dies at the end.

Also the supporting cast appears straight out of community theater. No wonder Russell Crowe bolted on this.

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Liberals hate this movie because it portrays the South as something besides a bunch of brainless, racist rednecks.

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Don't blame liberals. The film is just not that good- poor editing and very little dialogue.

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Would that include the following extremely liberal people:

Stephen Lang
Jeff Daniels
Donzaleigh Abernathy
Malachy McCourt
Kevin Conway
Frankie Faison
Mira Sorvino
Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)
TED TURNER!!!!!!!!

All of whom appear in this movie?

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It's funny how everyone keeps saying "Gettysburg" was a better film and "Gods and Generals" a failure, blah, blah, blah when I think the precise opposite. I saw "Gettysburg" at the theater and it was difficult to sit through. The entire first hour was one of the dullest set-ups of a movie I've ever sat through.

"Gods and Generals," on the other hand, held my attention from beginning to end; it's one of the better Civil War films, along with "Ride with the Devil," "Glory," "Pharaoh's Army" and "The Horse Soldiers."

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"I... don't... see... any... method... at... all... sir."

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Don't blame liberals. The film is just not that good- poor editing and very little dialogue.

What are you talking about? There is tons of dialogue. Its one of the strengths of the movie. I suspect you just didn't like the content of the dialogue rather than the amount.

People were pious in those times and they spoke in complete sentences. Sorry.

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What are you talking about? There is tons of dialogue. Its one of the strengths of the movie. I suspect you just didn't like the content of the dialogue rather than the amount.


star,
Both of Ron Maxwell's films, Gods & Generals and Gettysburg are known for an abundance of scenes where only one person speaks while others listen. Outside of historical inaccuracy, I had no issue with the content of the dialogue.

What I'd like to know is why you think everyone is out to get southerners or Confederate history. Personally, I have no issue with a film from a Confederate perspective. Unfortunately, Maxwell's films tend to be very historically inaccurate. There's just no other way to say it.

And what about what Kaplanjr1 said- if liberals hated this movie so much, why did so many politically and socially liberal people choose to star in it?

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What I'd like to know is why you think everyone is out to get southerners or Confederate history.

I'm surprised I really have to explain this, with people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson trying to incite more division everyday, with Conservatives being targeted by the IRS.......... ect.

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I don't really know enough about Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson to know if they are "trying to incite more division everyday." But then, I did hear that Sharpton called for people not to riot and to protest peacefully in this recent situation in Missouri.

Most historians I know about are not on some kind of crusade to shame Southerners. To be sure, the North has had plenty of racism, no doubt about it. Anyway, I don't know about others but I'm out to get the facts. Gods & Generals is an okay movie as for as something to watch goes, but it's not very good history. Sorry if that bothers you but it just isn't. Scenes like the very first one in the movie are a total mis-read of what actually happened. Using two Black people who ask for freedom but don't do much to get it (maybe that's what really happened in their particular case, I don't know) is a real disappointment to the many thousands who escaped slavery during the Civil War at the first chance they could. And I don't think for one second that Stonewall Jackson called for the enlistment of Blacks in the fall of 1862. And why would he have needed to? After success on the Peninsula, the Seven Days' Battles and then Second Bull Run, didn't the Army of Northern Virginia show it could take care of itself? Calling for the enlistment of Blacks in late 1862 would have been like Hitler calling for the use of V-1s and V-2s after the Fall of France.

Movies like Gods & Generals, Glory, Gettysburg and The Hunley are nice films to watch but they are very inaccurate depictions of the Civil War. Some time ago, I sent you links to audio and video resources to better understand the Civil War, but you rejected them. Sorry to say it but you're really kidding yourself if you think entertainment movies or novels are accurate history. I don't know who you are but it would be nice if you would realize that decisions people made 150 years ago have no reflection on who you are today.

Personally, I think an attitude of "If somebody criticizes the South, it's because they hate Southerners" as really no better than the Black person who cries racism every time somebody disagrees with him or her.

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star_in_the_zenith_79

I'm surprised I really have to explain this, with people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson trying to incite more division everyday, with Conservatives being targeted by the IRS.......... ect.

Hmmm....does Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton represent majority of American population? Are they part of U.S. government? By saying they incite division: do you mean they incite violence? Like; organising a posse and going after a white guy and things? Is that what you are afraid of?

Define the word division: you mean you feel terribly victimised they speak out against police force that shoots unarmed suspects in the middle of the day, in the middle of the street? ...are YOU a member of such a police force?

Do you think it would be less divisive if a white guy spoke against it, but it is more divisive if a black guy speaks against it?

Haven't those white people on the ranch in Nevada also got their panties in a twist because of government overreach not so long time ago? Weren't they pissed off about less than murder in broad daylight?

Don't explain with malice what you can explain with stupidity

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After success on the Peninsula, the Seven Days' Battles and then Second Bull Run, didn't the Army of Northern Virginia show it could take care of itself? Calling for the enlistment of Blacks in late 1862 would have been like Hitler calling for the use of V-1s and V-2s after the Fall of France.


While I disagree with your analogy (Hitler would have used rockets in a heartbeat had they been available in 1940) I agree with your history. Even in the fall of 1863 Gen. Patrick Cleburne, fighting with Bragg in Tennessee, essentially ruined any chance of advancing his career by writing a memo which eventually ended up in Richmond by saying that the South should offer freedom to any slave willing to fight in the Confederate Army. I can't recall who said it, but one response was that "if slaves would make good soldiers, then our whole idea of slavery is wrong" (they did and it was.)

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It was also not a very good idea to use the same actor to play gen. Pickett in Gettysburg and Jackson in Gods and Generals. That creates a bit of latent confusion with viewers. It shouldn't but I'm certain it does.

I also wonder if the personality of Jackson isn't partly to blame for the movie being badly received. For all his being hailed a military hero in the south, he wasn't a particularly admirable person. Bloodthirsty, utterly convinced of his righteousness and religious fanaticism and with little regard for the welfare of his soldiers. He was known not to be loathe to execute soldiers at the drop of a hat and not being adverse to dropping the hat himself either. And while being portrayed as the perfect southern gentleman in the movie, in real life he apparently fathered an illegitimate child. Not important in light of the movie perhaps, but not the stuff heroes are made of either.

I've never really understood the false romanticism surrounding so many southern generals - Lee, Jackson, Bedford Forrest, Stuart and so on. Gentlemen they may have been, except for millionaire slave-trader Bedford Forrest, they were still traitors to their country and guilty of fighting for a slave-holding insurrection. And causing more American deaths than other foreign enemies of the USA combined. I can't see that as anything admirable.

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