MovieChat Forums > Elling (2001) Discussion > I have some questions! Please help!

I have some questions! Please help!


Please don't make fun because I'm a monolingual American and I have to rely on English subtitles!

Ok, so (and this is a big pet peeve of mine, when the subtitles don't translate signs or other written language!!) what did Elling's poem say? And what type of books does Frank give him towards the end - were they about poetry or childcare? Ugh! The subtitles gave like one written sentence for every 4 spoken sentences, so I'm sure I missed things ...

I KNOW this is a movie, but would it be common for no one to ask a pregnant woman not to smoke? In America, someone would say something, even though it's not explicitly against the law. I know we're known as being prudes about things in general (unfortunately it's true, that's why we have so many "secret" drinkers and drug addicts), but it seems like a country with such excellent healthcare as Norway would really frown on drinking/smoking while pregnant.

And lastly - is this REALLY the way Norway's social services work? I'm interested because I'm a psychology student. Here, our mentally impaired people get basically "locked up" in a mental institution (if not thrown in jail!!), then put out on the streets. This can happen many, many times throughout someone's life - a cycle of being arrested, maybe placed somewhere for a while, then back on the street or at a homeless shelter to be arrested again. We do have social workers and such, but they are overloaded with cases. Most of our mentally impaired citizens do not receive nice, clean apartments, and enough money to be able to care for themselves properly.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer my many questions!

"We die as we dream ... alone." - Joseph Conrad

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Hi! I'm not Norwegian but I live in Norway so I guess that I can help with some of your questions.
I can't answer your question about the poem and the books, I watched the movie long time ago and honestly I don't remember.

In Norway it will be hard to find a person asking a pregnant woman not to smoke. One of the pillars of Norwegian society is the respect to other people's decisions and privacy. To ask the woman to stop would be considered an intrusion and a lack of respect. As shocking as it may be to a foreign (especially when you are a noisy Latin like me, haha) that's the way things work here. With time, you start finding only the benefits of that behavior.

Yes, this is the way that social services work in Norway. In my opinion, it's fantastic. The social services are just a small part of the great welfare system that Norway provides to it's population. Here is a link to a part of Michael Moore's documentary Psycho, where he talks about Norwegian health system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L6-0WRfSA&feature=youtube_gdata

Hope it helped!

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Thank you so much! That was very helpful. I was still pretty shocked to see a pregnant woman openly smoking and drinking (I can't help it, I'm American), and I frankly can't imagine giving her liquor in my home, but overall, if more people minded their own business in my country, maybe we wouldn't still be involved in a pointless war.

I'm going into the field of social work after college, and I was extremely impressed by the respect that Elling was treated with by society. Sadly, the US has a long way to go towards actually rehabilitating people rather than abandoning them or putting them in prison.

Thanks again!

"We die as we dream ... alone." - Joseph Conrad

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My mother smoked & drank during my sister's pregnancy & that was blamed on her being born with one leg. Social norms aside, someone owes it to the baby to tell a pregnant woman not to smoke or drink. If it embarrasses her, good.

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A late answer to your questions.

I'm a norwegian, so english is not my native language obviously, but I did my best to translate both the spirit and words of his poem.

In Norwegian:

Vi fant henne i trappen
Håret
En sort ravnevinge som vinden slo
mot det uvaskede linoleumet.
Vi la henne på sengen
og så at englene allerede hadde besvangret henne.

Translated:

We found her at the stairs
Hair
A black ravens wing that the wind flapped
at the unwashed linoleum floor
We layed her down at the bed
and saw that the angels had already impregnated her.

When it comes to smokind and drinking during pregnancy, that it also frowned upon in Norway. Even though Flopir is quite spot on in his analazys of the Norwegian way of being, this would be something most people would react on. All the movie is telling about this is that Elling and Bjarne wouoldn't, and there's nothing more to read from that scene about generak norwegian culture.

About the books he got, if I remember correctly they were simply to of Alfons poetry collections. Books alfons had written himself, as he used to be a semi-known poet.

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I agree about the subtitles...I don't care if what was said didn't add to the meaning, I wanted it translated. I don't know what Elling's poem said, but the books Frank gave him were by his new friend (the one who had the car and the cabin).

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America isn't THAT bad! To me, if in America, these dudes would have most likely been in some kind of assisted living group home for adults who have trouble functioning completely on their own... not getting arrested on the streets like you said. They weren't a violent risk to themselves or others, so it's not guarunteed that they'd be "locked up" in the first place.

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I'm working on a master's in social work - and I have to say, the more I learn, the worse I see things. Depending on where they were located, they would get no assistance, or end up in jail, or have an overloaded caseworker pay them a visit once or twice a month. They would not have the same level of care and attention.

"We die as we dream ... alone." - Joseph Conrad

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Just saw the movie on youtube. Of the two books by Alfonse, that the sosialworker gives to Elling, only one of the titles are visible. Uro = unrest.

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With regards to smoking the same campaign has been run against it in Norway as elsewhere in the west. It is banned in pubs, restaurants and most public places, at least indoors. There are also the same public health warnings as elsewhere including for pregnant women.
Having said that I suspect that a significant portion of Norwegians are far more relaxed than their "authorities" and would prefer not being told what to do by governments and experts. Personally I barely noticed the smoking and drinking, especially because the movie is an adaptation of Ingvar Ambjørnsen`s writings which have dealt with dark topics like psychiatry, drugs, child abuse and prostitution for decades. He is what we call here a social-realist and not in the business of describing role models but reality. He is in my view under no obligation to write morally uplifting but attempts to describe what he sees.
There are in Norway, for all our vaunted health care, many who struggle economically, socially and otherwise and many of these people do actually smoke and drink, even during pregnancies. This is what is being described in Elling and not the sensible and propagandized upper crust. These would be using cocaine and drinking brandy instead I suppose.

As for social services I have worked for 12 years in various psychiatric facilities in and around Oslo and the prevailing ideal is indeed something called "normalization", roughly translated, meaning that those under care are meant to be given residence in their home communities. In the case of Elling this means that because he was born in Majorstua, a district in Oslo, he is therefore granted by law the right to live there instead of in a massive hospital outside the city as he would previously have been forced to. Although this sounds great it leads to isolation for many, and less care than some need. Even people with far more debilitating conditions than Elling will be moved to single apartments or apartment complexes with others in a similar situation, which is expensive and works from extremely well to not at all depending on the case.
The old ways of sequestering the mentally challenged in large institutions had other drawbacks which you probably know of from the US, but it did provide communities, dysfunctional though they often were, as well as centralized experience and competence for care givers of all kinds.
In addition to this, although Norwegian health care is very generous to those that qualify a lot of people still fall through the cracks, either because of unclear diagnosis, not being considered "bad" enough to need help or just because of living in the wrong place etc. Someone far worse off than Elling could in practice receive little or no help, while those competent at filling out forms and jumping through the hoops of the system could receive more.
This is one of the problems of a well funded social welfare system which is top heavy with bureaucracy like you wouldn`t believe. And bear in mind that without at least one clear psychiatric diagnosis Elling would not have been eligible for communal living space. Having such a diagnosis would make it virtually impossible for him to find employment, ever. In other words it is a trap as well as salvation yet something about which public debate is touchy in Norway. For people watching from across the pond it is apparently easy to idolize European health care while missing the significant social control and therefore power such a system exercises and just how expensive it is to run. My impression of it, and the reason I have quit, was that the bureaucracies seem to grow exponentially, thereby reducing the amount of tax money spent on actually trying to improve the lives of downtrodden people. In this context a climate of "saving money" gradually established itself from the end of the 90s onwards, a culture which has now developed to a point where essential care is denied to many, in my opinion due to excessive administration.

Regarding the poem it is more or less correctly translated above, but I`ll do it again with better propositions:

Vi fant henne i trappen
håret
en sort ravnevinge som vinden slo
mot det uvaskede linoleumet.
Vi la henne på sengen
og så at englene allerede hadde besvangret henne

We found her on the stairs
the hair
a black raven`s wing the wind struck
against the unwashed linoleum
We laid her on the bed
and saw the angels had already impregnated her

Other than that I can only say that Elling is a far better movie when you understand Norwegian, since much of the quirkiness of the protagonists is lost in translation. Only a Norwegian can truly appreciate just how inappropriate Kjell Bjarne`s behavior really is, and just how Norwegian post-war culture has inhabited the neurotic mind of Elling. Note for example how the picture of former Norwegian Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland hangs symmetrically above his kitchen table. An American might imagine that to be his mother, to whom he was otherwise attached. He also has several books about this woman and seems semi-obsessed both with her and the Norwegian labor movement in general. Translated into American society this would be about the same as being obsessed with Gerald Ford or Ed Meese and therefore not necessarily a sign of mental health.

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