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Is Robin Williams' character really a psychopath?

posted 13 years ago by Dorian-Kellaway
23 replies | jump to latest

I've seen this film a few times, and though I feel it has some flaws, overall I consider it to be quite an enthralling, dark and unusual thriller, especially for American cinema.

There's one issue with this film though that has always fascinated me, and I wonder if other viewers have shared a similar experience. That issue is the morality, or lack of with Williams' character.

Robin Williams plays the villain, if you can call him that, in this film. At the beginner it appears as though Dormer has been brought in on the case because there is a terrible fear that this is not a one off murder, and the perpetrator is a serial offender. The shocking, and vicious, nature of the crime being the main cause for concern. However, later on as the plot develops, we learn of William's alledged motivation for commiting the murder. While Dormer insists that Willams was motivated by a perverted lust for a girl he admired, the audience are left to judge Williams' own explanation.

When I saw the film I actually have to say that although the murder suggested sociopahty, I did feel thorouhgly convinced by Williams' version of events. Now although as the film nears its conclusion the audience are definately further swayed towards the idea that Dormer is fundamentally a decent man, and Williams not, is the issue resolved?

What do people think?

Did William's ultimately kill the girl in sexual rage, show no true remorse for it, and could potentially commit further homicides? Or was it indeed actually a shcoking/tragic accident commited by someone, who although has issues, is not actually a psychopath or a monster. I thought it was interesting that the film never said it was a sexual homicide, as that would have indicated much more clearly that Williams' character wanted to possess her.

What do you think?

[–] Agent_Mulder89 13 years ago

Walter Finch was a very interesting 'villian'. The scene when he explains the murder to Dormer on the phone was a great scene. I'm not defending the character but I do personally think he was telling the truth about how he ended up killing her.

However, I do think the first murder would have prompted him to commit further acts of violence, had he not been killed. The reason for this is that he explains that after the murder, he was 'calm', almost if he was experiencing a rush. That's what drives most serial killers, they do it once, feel like God, then they want to do it again.

That's what makes this film so good though, Dormer is not completely without flaws and Finch has a human side.

[–] Dorian-Kellaway 13 years ago

Do you think Finch was a sexual psychopath? I mean at his age, if he really did experience a 'rush' after killing the girl, then it probably suggests that he would have been involved in some sort of violent activity earlier in his life, or at least would have fantasised about it.

I mean Dormer seems to think Finch's character would certainly kill more, and that it was the beginning of a murder spree. However, I can't think of many serial killers who kill their first victim 'by accident'. The only notable example who comes to mind is Jeffrey Dahmer, who said his first two homicides were completely accidental, though he was driven by darker forces for the better part of his adult life.

I think if Finch is what Dormer says he is, and if killing the girl made him feel special, then Finch's account of what happened is not meant to be believed. Since as Dormer says 'it took ten minutes' to beat her to death.

[–] Agent_Mulder89 13 years ago

Yeah I'd defo put him down as a 'sexual psychopath'.

You make a good point about the whole accident thing. It's kinda hard to analyse a character we learn very little about. He certianly had all the ingrediants to be a serial killer. Loner, sexually frustrated etc.

I've just remembered something actually, the guy was actually a successful author! It would be highly unusual for a local celebrity to suddenly turn serial killer. The movie kinda leaves a lot of questions regarding Finch.

[–] Dorian-Kellaway 13 years ago

Definately. I mean if Finch was a true deviant, or 'sexual psychopath' it would suggest that he had been spending all of his time with the girl in order to groom her for an assault, or plan her murder. I personally find that hard to believe. Then again maybe that's what makes Finch's character so disturbing, the fact that he is a seemingly normal, intelligent, man whose capable of carrying out a brutal murder in the heat of the moment? Dormer seems convinced that Finch only wanted the girl for sexual purposes, but that plot development seemed to be there in order to make Dormer's charater appear even more flawed or misguided. Either Dormer can see staight through Finch and his pseuso justifications for killing the girl, or he's flat out wrong about what caused Finch to commit the muder, and the complexity of the case rests uneasingly on his hardened detective mind. I mean I don't think the film at all states that Finch had sexually assaulted the girl before or after the killing.

[–] easy_fritzy 9 years ago

Finch was a lonely, unsuccessful man who definitely was attracted to the girl and thought she liked him. He reacted violently to her humiliating rejection of his advances... first out of anger to make her stop laughing, then out of panic to make her stop crying and finally to kill her when he realized he'd hit her too much.

I don't think he did anything to her corpse, sexually. But he definitely had a high opinion of himself and after he had killed once and regained composure, he felt confident enough to plot another murder... that of the lady detective, once he realized that she suspected Dormer had shot his partner and might keep digging to uncover the whole truth. So Dormer was right in recognizing that Finch was dangerous. He was also right in guessing that Finch was attracted to the girl but not entirely right about Finch's original motivations for the murder... most likely he didn't even care why Finch killed her. It was enough for him that Finch killed her. He had low opinions of child killers and was willing to believe the worst of them.

[–] Druff 13 years ago

Even if it wasn't motivated by sex or lust per se, the fact remains that a man lost control and murdered someone because they laughed at him. Accident or not, this is clearly not somebody who should be running free amongst the populace.

[–] Dorian-Kellaway 13 years ago

Interesting point. So you would reject his expanation as being in the least bit satisfactory for a rational person?

[–] Druff 13 years ago

I can appreciate that the murder was not premeditated and possibly not intentional. If Finch is telling the truth, it was not cold blooded 1st degree murder, nor 2nd degree.

But he fully admits that he attacked her, that his only reason for doing so was that she was laughing at him, and that he accidentally killed her. He is clearly highly unstable and a danger to others. He is at the very least guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter and he should pay for that crime.

[–] progjunky 13 years ago

Psychopathy is a mental disorder characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness. Psychopaths are highly prone to antisocial behavior and abusive treatment of others, and are very disproportionately responsible for violent crime. Though lacking empathy and emotional depth, they often manage to pass themselves off as normal people by feigning emotions and lying about their pasts.

i agree with druff that it wasn't premeditated, but still, if you can "accidentally" beat and strangle someone for 20 minutes, you're not an emotionally/mentally healthy individual, and are a danger to society.

[–] shipperly-groom 11 years ago

Psychopathy is a mental disorder characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness. Psychopaths are highly prone to antisocial behavior and abusive treatment of others, and are very disproportionately responsible for violent crime. Though lacking empathy and emotional depth, they often manage to pass themselves off as normal people by feigning emotions and lying about their pasts.

True, the psychopath's lack of empathy is one of their defining characteristics, but this refers to the aspect of empathy that is not only able to 'read' other people's emotions, but that identifies with another person's situation, and CARES about the negative feelings that person experiences.

This is where psychopathy differs from a condition like ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder), which is also characterised by a 'lack of empathy'. In ASD though, it is the other aspect of empathy that is lacking; the ability to read feelings, not a lack of care about other's suffering.

A psychopath is often very good at reading and recognising others' emotions, and understanding them on a superficial level, and uses that ability to feign them. That is why they are such good manipulators - insightful, but utterly cold and ruthless. That's what makes the clever ones such good CEO material :)

Finch's apparent ability to understand Dormer's conflicts and situation, and attempt to get him to blur the boundaries between their crimes and identify with him, was exactly this kind of superficial ability. What gives it away is the fact he had no real remorse for what he did to the girl, for what he was about to do with Swank's character Burr, or for making Randy the fall guy. He only had justifications and excuses. He just didn't see he'd done anything really wrong, because he didn't give a fig about others, and lacked any sense that they counted for anything.

[–] Drooch 9 years ago

Good points about Swank and Randy - he punched Swank hard in the head without a second thought, and was happy to bin the murder on a young man. Sure, Randy was a nasty little prick but he doesn't deserve the rest of his life in prison so a murderer can go free.

Dormer was tortured by the possibility that he may have killed Hap, though we're pretty certain he didn't intend to. By contrast, Finch doesn't give a toss about any of his cruelty to others - sounds pretty psychopathic to me.

[–] fastguy45 12 years ago

Definitely not a psychopath. He recognized what he did was wrong and justified it by saying he didn't "mean" to do it. A psychopath would neither acknowledge what he did was wrong nor feel the need to invent a justification.

I think his character was a profoundly insecure man who found solace in the fantasy world of his novels. When the girl laughed at him during an emotionally vulnerable moment, he lost control and struck out.

It would be 2rd degree murder (i.e. without premeditation) where I come from.

[–] beautifulcopper 12 years ago

Towards the end of the movie Dormer says something like, "It took you ten *beep* minutes to beat that girl to death. You call that an accident?"

Finch has major issues that he is not ready to face. Even after committing a brutal murder, he keeps saying "I am not who you think I am". He feels that his motivation ( "motivation is everything") for the killing justified it, calls the murder an accident and yet, is ready to kill again. To me Finch came across as someone who did horrible things, and then looked for reasons to justify it absolving himself of any guilt. That makes him even creepier.

Someone who doesn't feel any remorse for a deed that cruel, who frames an innocent person for his own crime, is definitely dangerous and a villain.

Psychopaths' known characteristics are "...lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness...".

Therefore, yes, Finch is really a psychopath.

[–] savaslikesmovies 11 years ago

All interesting points here.

But what I'm wondering is how he would have gotten away with killing the police/detective woman? The police station all knew she was going to Walter Finch (Robin Williams) to collect the letters..

What was his plan? It seemed like he did not want to be caught and I can't really imagine how he would get out of that..

Even then he's trying to convince Dormer (Al Pacino) that she was in on it and that she needed to be sorted, and the "we" stuff..

I think he does sense that he has done something very bad, but not morally, just something that will get him locked up and that's what he cares about the most.. Getting in trouble, not killing people. At the start of the movie, Dormer explains that he passed that and didn't even blink and that he will see he can do it again and enjoys doing it again, so eventually he will kill again. Then when he, Walter calls Dormer (Al Pacino) and starts explaining how he felt a rush, just pretty much proves Dormer is right.

[–] jam_cl1987 11 years ago

This film is certainly more thought provoking than your average thriller.

In my view he believed he would have gotten away with killing Hilary Swanks character since they already had the kid in custody for the killing and liked him for it. He probably could have said she came and went and something could have happened or she didnt make it to his house. Obviously this would mean the Police would look at him more seriously as a suspect in both murders but im sure in his mind he believed he could have gotten away with it. Also with Dormer out the picture he believed he could run rings around the local cops mentally.

Which in my view makes him a stone cold killer because even though the first murder might not have been pre-meditated, the second attempt most certainly was. He invited her up, showed her the dress that Kay was wearing deliberitely and when he seen her reaction(im sure it excited him) he then attacked her. If Dormer had not turned up i imagine that she would have had to endure a very grizzly death indeed, unfortunately.

Anyways, its a very thought provoking film and one that deserves repeated viewings. Sometimes i even put it on when i cant sleep because one look at Pacino's sleep deprived face and im out like a light.

We will destroy Gotham.....Let the Games begin!

[–] thenightterror 8 years ago

The question of how Finch planned to get away with Ellie's murder is an interesting one. The only idea I have is that he planned to set up Dormer, he has plenty of motive. Finch wouldn't know that Ellie had the shell casing with her but he likely would've found it after she was dead, and could've used it to frame him.

Of course, the way he handed Randy to the police on a silver platter, I doubt he would've gotten away with it, he was so painfully obvious about it that I doubt he could've done it a second time.

[–] Bobtheawesome 11 years ago

i dont think so, the main criteria for being a psychopath is lack of empathy. There wasnt really much evidence towards that. He was obviously unstable, and dangerous, its completely possible that he would end up killing again, in another fit of rage, but i wouldnt label him a psychopath.

[–] manofsteel4455 11 years ago

Is it possible for someone to be a psychopath and a sociopath?

You want to play the game, you'd better know the rules, love.
-Harry Callahan

[–] koffeenkreame41-1 11 years ago

It's possible. Finch had a breakdown and that's what led to her death, now, it depends on who you believe. Dormer or Finch. I think Finch was a normal guy, a bit of a loner who developed feelings for this girl and after being humiliated like he was, just snapped. I think that Dormer was right about him, he was going to kill Swank's character before Dormer got there and he panicked. In the end, you see Finch was really psychotic.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.

[–] michaelv620 10 years ago

I think his character fits in line with the point the movie is trying to make - that if you cross that line once it makes it much easier to cross again. Finch may well have been a non-violent, law-abiding citizen prior to the murder. But once he did it, it made it easier for him to justify it later. He would have likely killed Burr later on as it fit with his logic that the first murder was an accident and Burr wouldn't have believed him.

The same applied for Dormer and Burr. Dormer crossed that line with a case back in LA and he was willing to do the same (plant evidence) here to achieve an end.

He put an end to the cycle when he stopped Burr from concealing the evidence against him.

[–] Jester2000154113 9 years ago

I think he was telling the truth about how the murder happened, or at least how he interpreted his own actions in his own obviously somewhat skewed mind.

I do think he was sexually attracted to her though, even if he liked to think he was above that sort of thing. I think deep down, he had romantic fantasies about this young attractive girl being interested in little old unremarkable lonely Walter, and that's why it hurt and angered him so much when she laughed at what was probably an awkward attempt at a romantic advance.

He obviously doesn't consider himself a true murderer (notice the scorn in his voice when he mentions "all those scumbags" Dormer has arrested before, as if he's different from them), but he was clearly going to murder Ellie in a more predmeditated fashion. That says to me that, however he likes to whitewash himself, he's capable of cold-blooded murder. Also, as Dormer calls him out on, it took Finch 10 minutes to beat and strangle Kate to death. That takes a lot more brutality than just shooting someone in the head.

The fact that Finch could slowly murder a 17-year-old with his bare hands over 10 minutes, then be calm enough to methodically clean her body, and the fact that he has zero moral conflict over framing Randy Stetz to spend the rest of his life in prison for Finch's crime, and his overall manipulative and matter-of-fact demeanor, says to me that Finch might be a sociopath.

my movie review website: http://www.jestersreviews.com

[–] registers-944-48791 8 years ago

Walter was just trying to talk Dormer into being quiet. He wanted to get his sympathy.

Let's take out of question the brute violence of Walter at the last scenes, that was cheap hollywood action.

First, Walter says it was an accident. But that argument is immediatelly destroyed when compared to Dormer's murder. If it was really an accident, the murderer wouldn't just watch the victim die, to only later ask for help, or throw her away as garbage. He'd immediately help and call people/take to hospital.

Second, as pointed by the movie, it took Walter 10 minutes of beating to kill her. We can say that the garbage thing was a desperate way of hiding the corpse, but not the 10 minutes of beating. I suppose he was having fun doing that and wanted it to last.

Third, at begining of the movie, Dormer says that somebody who does that won't stop. He had passed a wall, and won't just get back. He'll want more. He'll become a serial killer. Even if it takes years from each kill.

Fourth, the movie says that ppl that live in alaska either were born there, or moved there to escape something. That suggests that Walter moved there to escape. Maybe he killed somebody before, got away from it, but decided to "escape". Then, he had done it before, did it once more and would do it again.

Also, the character is portrayed as problematic. He's too reclusive, still he liked to be with the girl, so it doesn't seem to be an option.

Let's analyse what led to the crime. Walter is a successiful book writer, able to buy expensive jewelry and dresses. Still he had no girlfriend.

He was minding his own business, then the girl approached him, interested in him. He got attacted to her, but she didn't wanna hang out with him. He probably tried to seduce her, but failed. She didn't notice his intentions, or just ignored being aware of them. Failing to seduce her, he tried to give expensive gifts to her. Girls like to be bought out with gifts, and she was a 17yo student girl from a poor city without a job. Again he failed, she accepted and loved the gifts but didn't want him. Then one day he tried to advance. He kissed her (didn't say if on the mouth) and was erected. She noticed it and laughed on him.

He failed miserably in all his attempts, to the point of being humillated by her. And sadly it seems to be the norm in his life. He could be married by his age and have children, he could have girlfriends sustained by his money, he could pay for sex. Maybe he was just very bad with girls.

Of course these things don't make a person into a psychopath, but in the movie's lore they are evidences of such.

You just liked Water because Robin Williams is very charismatic.