hero or villain?


im just curious as to what everyone thinks..

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hero!

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definately a hero, he was simply trying to protect his family from the corrupt police.

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[deleted]

Hero. He did kill cops but don't think for a second that things are black and white. What would you do? I'm sure someone will play the villain card but these were very differnt times...also, do some research. The film is pretty damn close to the truth. I wouldn't call him a Robin Hood but I would call him a William Wallis. Hero.



True story? I couldn't swear to every detail but it's certinally true it is a stroy.

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All cops are scum. Its that simple. That makes Kelly a hero.

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~ Ofcourse Ned Kelly was and always will be a hero. The only villains are those rotten croket cops. All Ned wanted to due was take care of his family but the cops wouldn't leave him or his family alone. Since justice would pervail for Ned & his kind. Ned had to get it for himself.


*~~*


~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
"Where I go, when I go there
No more weeping anymore
Only in and out your lips
The broken wishes,
washing with them, to shore
.

Georg from Spring Awakening

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[deleted]

Hero!

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Neither really applies.

He was a great man, and his legend proves that.

But he was also a murderer, and this is something people overlook. He was also a notorious Horse-thief and bank-robber.

My point is not to *beep* on his legend or his memory. His status as an icon of Australian history is well-deserved. But to call him a hero is a great exaggeration.

He was simply a violent soul created and forged by the time in which he lived. Colonial times were hard, especially hard for migrants of any descent other than upper-class. He killed because he believed it to be the only way to get his viewpoint heard.

Perhaps he was right. But then again, you cannot preach against corruption by killing. This doesn't end the cycle of violence, it merely helps it along. Wars are not ended by one force conquering another. They are ended by somone in power choosing NOT to see the deaths of anyone else in a pointless conflict.

Be all this as it may, the legend of Ned Kelly will forevermore cast in shadow the man who inspired it. And as long as it gives people hope, teaches them not to give in to corruption and greed, then those tragic events surrounding the man and his friends have not been in vain.

Flynn 24

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Villain. Low-life murdering thug. He was part of the corruption, nobody twisted his arm. He robbed innocent people at gun point and would have killed them if they didn't hand over their money.

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I'll tell you this though; If a cop (or anyone) had punched MY dear sweet ol' mother in the stomach like that I would have ended all involved as well. Period. The system was corrupt, the cops were mostly scum, and under the circumstances there was no way for him to win or get ahead, only the choice to either lay down and take it or fight.

-- All because the one cop couldn't take no for an answer, had an ego born of the cop mentality that wouldn't tolerate rejection, and lied about Ned which started the ensuing violent chain of events. Sorry Negron, your condemnation of him holds no water here.

There's a reason why 100's of folks refused to betray Ned or his gang, even in the face of oppression, personal gain or threat of imprisonment from the cops.

I vote hero for Ned.

______________________
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! THIS IS THE WAR ROOM!"

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Are we talking about from the movie or real life because the movie is nothing like the actul story
Anyway
Movie-Hero
Reality-Villain

Okay Um...I'm lost, Uh...I'm angry, and I'm armed -Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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He is a villain to those who think that the British Empire and 19th century Australia was a just system, and that (oppressed) people "should have conformed to that system".

But he is a hero to people who understand that:

the British Empire and 19th century Australia was an unjust, undemocratic, oppressive system,

in which rich ruling class men were the only ones who had the right to vote,

in which Irish people were occupied and oppressed whether in Ireland or Australia,

in which the police abused their authority and engaged in police brutality with impunity on a regular basis,

in which the police worked on behalf of the ruling class,

in which class discrimination by the ruling class and police was common and there was no law against it,

and those who were oppressed and suffered at the hands of police who abused police authority (e.g. the Kelly family from Ireland), and who fought back against it, by fighting the armed forces of the state, and by robbing the rich ruling class and redistributing that wealth amongst the poor, and by burning banks' mortgage deeds of ordinary townspeople in debt, as the Kelly Gang did, were heroes - perhaps flawed heroes, but heroes none-the-less....

The Kelly Gang had support amongst the poor farmers (many of whom were also from Ireland), and most of those farmers refused to betray the Kelly Gang to the police, and so the ruling class ordered the police to enact collective punishment on the poor farmers near the Kelly Gang - by arresting and jailing farmers in large numbers. That is the oppressive way the government operated in those days.

The Kelly Gang tried to derail the troop train which was sent to eliminate them, and this was to be the signal for the start of an uprising - many supporters were ready to ride to their aid... but a snitch at Glenrowan Hotel lied to them and betrayed them, stopping the derailment and alerting the police troopers about the ambush, and so the Kelly Gang told their supporters not to come - saving their supporters' lives, at the cost of the lives of the Kelly Gang. That in itself was a heroic act on the part of the Kelly Gang.

My point is that they were popular and had supporters: so popular in fact, that when Ned Kelly was shot multiple times in the legs and captured, and sentenced to hang by the police, more than 30,000 people signed a petition to save him - an unprecedented number, and especially significant, considering that Australia's population was much smaller in those days.

As you can see, the Kelly Gang were heroes to poor people, Irish people, and politically conscious people then and now.

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[deleted]

Many of those excuses you just used are still used by armed robbers Today. I know this because I'm a prison officer.

As for the Irish excuse:
Ned Kelly was not Irish, he was born in Australia. He was not oppressed because of his ancestry; he was oppressed because he was a piece of sh!t who could not keep his thieving hands away from other people's property.

It is seldom noted that his three victims and one survivor at Stringybark Creek - unlike Kelly- were all born in Ireland. They were the real Irishmen.

Their names were:
Constable Thomas Lonigan
Constable Michael Scanlon
Sargent Michael Kennedy

May they rest in peace.

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"I'm a prison officer"

Yeah yeah, real surprising thoughts by backing the government coming from a bitch who works for them.

Ned Kelly was a legend who gave scum like the above a real wake up call, he was not willing to be pushed around by government thugs and stand up and say "I won't be kept down!"

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What exactly was the "wake up call"? Nothing he did was unique except for the armor, and that did bugger all for him.

As for not being "kept down". He was kept down by the government very successfully from the moment he dropped down in the gallows.

As for calling me a bitch. I've been called a lot worse than that by your mates inside and my feelings have never been hurt.

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How about you read some history before you open your mouth?

After Kelly was executed, the British government carried out a big review of the constables who had harassed the Kelly family. The British government eventually found, OFFICIALLY that they were at least partially at fault for what had happened and all of those people were either demoted or removed from duty.

It is apparent that you have a very simplistic world view - but people aren't just black and white.

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Please show me evidence of your claims with the names of the people involved. I will read it and study it. If the evidence starts pointing in the other direction I will amend my opinions.

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Negron,

A royal commission into police handling of the Kelly Outbreak opened in 1881. Do a bit og googling and you should be able to find the document itself.

The reforms that came out of that royal commission recommended that over 60 officers be sacked, demoted or pensioned off out of the police force for their corruption and unlawful handling of the Kellys - these demotions went to Senior Sergeants, Inspectors, Superintendents as well as the rank and file.

A lot of the 'police transparency' that we enjoy today is a direct result of that royal commission, and some may argue, Kelly's greatest legacy.

Also, it's fair to note that cattle-duffing at the time wasn't only done by the Kellys - the police were indulging in the activity and profiteering from it too. Constable ernest Flood actually stole 20 horses from the Kelly's. But I digress - the Royal Commission should make interesting reading - also I'd recommend Ian Jone's book 'A Short Life' as some background reading - it will give some of the events mentioned in the Royal Commission some context.

Cheers dude, hope it provides some further enlightenment.

As a matter of interest, at which prison do you work?



And here's my offer to your counter offer. Go f--k yourself.

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HI

hero or villain?
Villain (but with really good PR).

~Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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well history wise, it could go either way, cos history books only focus on the bad things so you see him as a villain by default but the movie most definatly portrays him as the cultural hero that he is

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[deleted]

Hero...an Irish man that fights for what is right is always a hero.

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I think the attitude of Australians has always been ambivalent.

No-one disputes that the standard of policing in Victoria was poor in 1880, and that the police force was subsequently reformed after the Royal Commission into the 'Kelly Outbreak'. But is this a vindication of Kelly, or proof that reform was possible within the system?

You can be 'game as Ned Kelly', but unscrupulous methods are 'Ned Kelly methods'.

And when Sidney Nolan painted his Ned Kelly series, he always showed Kelly with his helmet on - a black mask - even though he only wore it at the Glenrowan siege. I think what this meant was that everyone projected onto him their own emotions, positive and negative, while the real Kelly remains unknowable.

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He fought against british imperialism, how could he be anything but a hero...

But as we all know the british write all the history books...

Eat the Neocons.

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"History is written by the victors"

Hero or Villain.
You see in my opinion Ned Kelly only defended himself, i haven't studied the full story, i did read the Wikipedia and have watched the movie.

And have come to the conclusion that it was either him or them, why should he go to Prison for something he did not do, these cops were criminals and corrupt.

He only did what was right and wanted to protect his family against this evil, and yes he did Rob banks but he never had the intention to hurt innocents.

Sadly it did turn out badly, and innocents were killed one can only question why it did go down like that, and why didn't Ned turn himself in.

But i'll be honest with you as the Train scene came on and the screen faded and the text was showed.

My only thought was William Wallace

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He fought against british imperialism


By killing Irishmen?

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