2nd Infantry in Viet Nam?


I'm watching the movie again and noticed the 2nd Infantry "Indian Head" shoulder patch on everyone's uniforms. My dad was in the 2nd Infantry, 38th Division during WWII,so this piqued my interest. I thought the 2nd was assigned to Korea during Viet Nam. Mel Gibson's character mentions that his group is the 7th Cavalry (G.A Custer's outfit at the Little Bighorn). What gives? Is there any truth to this, or just movie-making? Can any of you military historians clarify this for me?

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" As no pool of unassigned maneuver battalions existed, two infantry battalions, the 1st and 2nd Battalions, 2nd Infantry from the 2d Brigade, 5th Infantry Division, at Fort Devens, Massachusetts, were relieved and assigned to the 1st Division with no change of station. This took place on 12 July 1965. The 1st Division also reorganized its two mechanized infantry battalions as standard infantry, bringing the number of infantry battalions in the division to nine.
In September 1965 the two battalions deployed to Vietnam, landing on the beach at Vung Tau in October 1965. From there they proceeded to their assigned areas, Phouc Vinh for the 1st Battalion and Lai Khe for the 2nd Battalion. The battalions initially fought as light infantry in the areas north and west of Saigon. In June–July 1966 it was determined that mechanized infantry would work in Vietnam.

So, the 2nd Battalion changed over from 17 July-31 December 1966. On 2 January 1967 the 2nd Battalion officially became a mechanized infantry battalion.
The first major battles were fought by the 2nd Battalion at Ap Bau Bang on 12 November 1965 and Ap Nha Mat on 5 December 1965."

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Thanks for your reply. However, I believe you are confusing military nomenclature here. I think your quote refers to two battalions of the 5th Infantry Division that were assigned to the 1st Infantry Division in 1965.

I went to the 2nd Indianhead Division website and found this:

"However, a few months later, in the spring of 1958, the Department of the Amy announced that the 2nd Infantry Division would be reorganized at Fort Benning, Georgia, with personnel and equipment of the 10th Infantry Division returning from Germany. Fort Benning remained the home of the new 2nd Infantry Division from 1958 to 1965, where it was initially assigned the mission of a training division. To improve combat readiness, in March of 1962 the 2nd Infantry Division was designated as a Strategic Army Corps (STRAC) unit. Following this, the Division became engaged in intensified combat training, tactical training, and field training exercises, in addition to special training designed to improve operational readiness.

With tensions increasing on the Korean peninsula, the 2nd Infantry Division returned to the Republic of Korea in July of 1965. North Korea increased border incursions and infiltration attempts and the 2nd Division was called upon to help halt these attacks. On 2 November, 1966, six U.S soldiers and one KATUSA of the 1st Battalion, 23rd Infantry were killed in an ambush by North Korean forces. In 1967 enemy attacks in the demilitarized zone increased. As a result, 16 American soldiers were killed that year.

In 1968 North Korea continued to probe across the DMZ but by 1970 the North had decided that their efforts against the 2nd Infantry Division weren’t worth the cost and most organized attacks stopped that year. By March of 1971 ROK forces had assumed the responsibility for the defense of all but a mile of the DMZ, allowing the 2nd Infantry Division to maintain combat readiness in case of any eventuality.

On 18 August 1976, during a routine tree trimming operation within the DMZ, North Korean border guards bludgeoned two American officers to death in a melee in the Joint Security Area, what resulted is known as Operation Paul Bunyan. The 2nd Infantry Division was chosen to participate in the United Nations Command response to this incident and on 21 August, Task Force Brady, comprised of American Infantry and Engineers, swept into the area and cut down the now infamous “Panmunjom Tree.” The Warriors, together with the Joint Security Force which led the way and a group of ROK Special Forces, delivered an unmistakable message to the North Koreans, as well as to the world. Throughout the 1980s, soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Division continued to patrol along the DMZ."

It seems the 2nd Division was in North Korea during the Vietnam war.So I suspect that the use of the 2nd Division Indianhead patches in the movie was an example of film-making artistic license.

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Hey lisajohn-4. I'm sorry to be late to the show, but I just checked this movie's pages for the first time after seeing it last night on AMC.

I have your answer.
Short version: until 1965, 1st Cavalry Division had been stationed in South Korea, and 2nd Infantry Division was at Ft. Benning. In '65, the divisions' names (their "colors," to use Army terminology) and the names of their subordinate units were essentially just swapped from Korea to Ft. Benning and vice versa. Troops stayed in place, only the unit names were changed.
Except that: "1st Cav" didn't stay quite the same back at Ft. Benning. It's unit names went to fulfill and replace the experimental 11th Airborne Division, and "11th Abn" was disbanded/retired.

In other words, the Army went into 1965 with 3 nominal divisions (of those I mentioned), and ended the year with 2:
-- the unit names of 2nd Div from Ft. Benning replaced the unit names of the 1st Cav for troops already in Korea
-- the unit names of 1st Cav went back to Ft. Benning, and were applied to the troops formerly assigned to the 2nd Div, and "fused with" the mission and identity of "11th Airborne" to create a new type of division-- "Air Cavalry."

If I'm making that too complicated, here it is from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Cavalry_Division_(United_States)#Vietnam_.E2.80.93_1st_Cavalry_Division_.28Airmobile.29
In 1965, colors and subordinate unit designations of the 1st Cavalry Division were transferred from Korea to Fort Benning, Georgia, where they were used to reflag the existing 11th Air Assault Division (Test) into 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). Concurrently, the colors and subordinate unit designations were transferred to Korea to reflag what had been the 1st Cavalry Division into the 2nd Infantry Division.

Remember in the movie, when the troops are still at Ft. Benning, and Moore and all the infantry guys we see are wearing the 2nd Div. patch-- you might have noticed that "Snake" and "Too Tall" and all the helicopter crew are wearing a now-forgotten little blue-and-white shield with tiny wings on it and a little red "11" inside it. That was the patch of the 11th Airborne Division. That inclusion in the film is a very subdued --but surprisingly accurate-- nod to the "merging" of the 11th Abn. with the infantry troops of the 2nd Inf Div already at Ft. Benning (who were "reflagged in place" as "1st Cav" simultaneously as "11th Abn" was retired and replaced by "1st [Air] Cavalry").
So as for your notion, lisajohn-4, that 2nd Inf Div was in Korea for most of the Vietnam-War era: correct, and "it went there" concurrent with the guys in the movie putting on the 1st Cav patch.
The point you cited in your last post, about 2nd Div at Ft. Benning being trained-up as a STRAC unit probably explains the Army's decision to keep them in place and use them as the troops of the new "Air Cav" division.

Now, if I can wax a little historically reflective: that "reflagging" of units called "airborne" and incorporating the use of helicopters was re-done about 15 years later. My wiki citation above indicates that the Army was already trying to re-organize an "Airborne" division as a helicopter "Air Assault" division, in 1965. And the U.S. Army's modern "101st Airborne Division" is essentially what the "1st Cav" was in Vietnam: a helicopter-mobile "air assault" Infantry division. The name "Airborne" for the modern 101st is only a historical honorific, just like calling 1st Cav "cavalry" was in Vietnam; just as logical or illogical as a name for helicopter Infantry, depending on your viewpoint. By the same logic, the Army could decide to re-organize the "1st Armored Division" as helicopter Infantry and yet keep calling it "Armored."

And lisajohn-4, I am guessing from your original post, that your dad was in the 38th Infantry Regiment of the 2nd Div in WW2 (that's how the nomenclature works). As late as my duty with the 2nd Div in Korea in the mid 1980s, there was still a remnant of the 38th Infantry in the Division-- 1st Bn., 38th (a.k.a. "1/38 Inf"). But back to weird "reflagging:" in September 1986, that battalion was redesignated as either 1st or 2nd Bn of the 503rd Infantry, a traditionally Airborne Infantry unit; their regimental crest depicts parachutes! (It was reflagged along with a neighboring infantry battalion, 1st Bn., 23rd Inf. --another old 2nd Div legacy unit-- as 1st and 2nd of the (new) 503rd, but I don't remember which became "1st" and which became "2nd.")

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Hey, rb;

Just because it will piss you off for me to get this much in the weeds on a purely "army" topic, here is a link for you:

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/697844.pdf

Since you are former airborne and interested enough in history to answer the OP's query, you might even like the pdf. If so, I am deeply sorry.

Beginning on page 92 of the pdf (The Evolution of the Army Division 1939 to 1968 by Virgil Ney) the author describes the development of the airmobile division, using the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). He describes the reassignment that was also described in Wikipedia. It may even be one of the references for the Wikipedia article; I haven't read it.

I hope this really cheese you off and makes you blow a temporal blood vessel.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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No blown blood vessels here, sweetie.
We real soldiers love that you REMFs love the movies made about our real historical actions.
😁

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Speaking of REMFs, did you ever leave CONUS while on active duty? I think you wrote that you did one tour in the eighties.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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[deleted]

Officers are not linguists. In the United States the linguist career field is enlisted, in all services. Only the commies make their linguists officers, though we get paid better.

Your understanding of how IMDB works is as vacuous as your understanding of how the military, outside of your MOS works. I only get notified when you respond to me. I don't think you ever stopped being hot.

I don't know why you are so disappointed in your military career, but it is your problem. Deal with it.

You email me in private claiming you want to be friends, and then flame me in public. I've known a lot of good soldiers, some airborne and some straight leg. But you aren't one of them.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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[deleted]

You do understand that these messages, while public, are a direct response. That is, anyone can pull it up an see it, but it does not go to anyone but me. I am notified when someone replies to a posting of mine because I select that on my settings.

I assess that only those who are interested in our conflict, or those who are bored, click on these messages to read them.

I recommend that you seek profession help for your frustrations.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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[deleted]