MovieChat Forums > Blueberry (2004) Discussion > It's not Peyote. It's Ayahuasca.

It's not Peyote. It's Ayahuasca.

posted 17 years ago by joeflour
43 replies | jump to latest

The whole point of Wallace's obsession to get to the mountains is to attain Ayahuasca, the drink that Runi makes.

It is real, and the visualizations in the film don't do it justice. It is the closest representation of an ayahuasca experience I've ever seen.

Ayahuasca contains Dimethaltryptamine (DMT) which is a powerful hallucinagenic compound that we produce naturally in our sleep. Ayahuasca and DMT allows someone to have "conscious dreams" and that's what this film is all about.

The reason Wallace is so obsessed with finding "gold" is because when he burned in the fire he had a near death experience and spoke of his body being licked by snakes or something along those lines. He was referring to a DMT trip, and he had since discovered that he could revisit those visions through DMT.

Peyote doesn't hold a stick to DMT, I don't recall ever hearing about someone drinking peyote.

Hopefully this clears up some misconceptions about the film. But it is a real drink, and it does produce extremely vivid and wild hallucinations, to an extent that most people would go crazy over. This movie's effects, while insanely accurate, doesn't even come close to the actual experience.

Wasn't a strong film though, which is a shame, it was shot so well.

[–] ryusaki 17 years ago

You may be right, but there are a few shots of Peyote cacti showed at the beginning and the end of the film. I think they mean Peyote not DMT .Or maybe a shot of both 0_0!
Seriously, i had some really frightening hallucination on psylocybine, when i closed my eyes it was similar to these reptile shots, so i think if you take the right dose of Peyote (which is much more stronger than psylos) it can be really powerful.

[–] joeflour 17 years ago

I understand that peyote is powerful, but again, it doesn't hold to the "beyond the veil" experience of DMT.

Another thing is that he drinks it and vomits. That is a characteristic of Ayahuascua tea. You don't drink peyote.

People can believe what they want, but the electronic hallucinations once inside the atom is something only experienced on DMT.

[–] renzokata 16 years ago

actually, it was peyote. it showed many times in the movie, scenes depicting peyote buttons-and that was actually what the "sacred power" really was. they thought they were looking for gold, but it really was peyote the whole time. as far as visuals being dmt-like or mescaline-like, thats is entirely subjective. different people have different experiances, and the visuals i noticed in the scenes are definitely mescaline-like. i've done mescaline and dmt several times and this is my opinion. in fact-the whole movie was made to watch while tripping on mescaline(try it sometime-theres a lot of hidden images and visuals in the film(faces comming out of smoke-ect). while its common for people to puke and *beep* all night while tripping on ayahuasca, it also happens to people on peyote too-in fact, the shamans considered it a "good thing"-a cleansing of some sort.

[–] user-19604 16 years ago

truthfullly, I'm down to try anything, but I don't want to see cheesey visuals when Im trippin' ... much like this film shows us.

[–] galatan 9 years ago

when you're tripping the visuals are yours. your brain makes them, they are unique. and trust me, they can and will be the most beautiful things you've ever seen. they're never ugly or cheesy, because your brain knows what you like. basically it's you making them! kinda.

there's really no describing it, you have to experience it yourself.

[–] olkenna 17 years ago

The shots of peyote in the intro confused me too, yeh its balatantly Ayahuasca, tho the Peruvian Shaman i drank it with told us the concoctions can vary quite alot, the brew we shared contained all sorts, including datura, which i had never intended to try (no regrets tho ;) so perhaps some more northern recipes contain peyote too. people often ask me if its similar to LSD, mescaline, or peyote and it really isn't comparable is it.
you're right, its the most accurate depiction ive seen on film, tho visually not as infinitely geometric as the straight DMT experiences i've had, there ain't another film that can quite match this so far.

PS.
have u tried synthesized 5meo-dmt?

[–] TheBlackTulip 17 years ago

I really liked this movie. the cinematography and use of camera its amazing. I was originally interested also because I had a once-in-a-lifetime experience seven years ago with peyote. I travelled the northern part of San Luis de Potosi, in Mexico, and found, after many tribulations, an spiritual guide who took me to the desert to experience "peyote brujo", a bigger, highly concentrated version of peyote. I had gone through Castanedas books as a teenager and it was always a dream of mine to do this. It truly changed my life, at least for a while. Came back to civilization with a wider sense of myself and what I wanted in life. It happened after college, so it was a crucial time in my life. Anyways, I know it sounds cliched, but it is what it is. Can't really put it in words and if I could I'd probably need a lot more time and words.

So i guess I'm answering your post cause I'd like to know more about Ayahuasca, where in Peru did you visit, and...also, 'cause it sounds closer to home, on synthesized 5meo-dmt. Thanks.

[–] marvellink311 17 years ago

Who is castaneda and what is his full name?

[–] TheBlackTulip 17 years ago

Look for books by Carlos Castaneda, an anthropologist/author. Very cult-like famous. One of the best is the first one: "The teachings of Don Juan". Let me know what you thought.

[–] fschuster 16 years ago

if you want to know about transformative psychedelic experiences you should not bother with Castaneda, plus if you do enough research you'll see that he is somewhat of a con man, he has nothing to do with ayahuasca or mushrooms..

[–] The-Atlantean 15 years ago

Good advice, Fschuster - although I did find Journey to Ixtlan useful.

The best book I've read on Ayahuasca is Narby - DMT: The Spirit molecule. I've not taken Ayahuasca as is, but have synthesised DMT crystal from Mimosa Hostilis. Smoking it avoids the vomiting, but is over much quicker and more intensely, so i'm sure things are missed.

As another poster said, there are many recipes of Ayahuasca, depending on region and shamen. The purgative experience is part of the experience, as I have had with other things, but I'd still prefer a journey without it!

I do agree that while there are motifs more likely with different psychedelics, one can transcend these barriers. I have had a very 'atomic' experience on psylocibin myself.

- Now that you've read this, there's no going back -

[–] sr1-2 17 years ago

joeflour, if this is a true western (meaning 19th century; I don't know, I haven't seen the film) then it can't be ayahuasca because it wasn't known then outside of the Amazon. Unless you have a western with an Amazonian shaman in it, sort of ridiculous.

The other explanation is that the filmmaker doesn't give a *beep* about truthfulness and meant and showed peyote but displayed the visuals and power typical of a tryptamine psychedelic instead of a phenethylamine.

I've never taken mescaline, only psilocybin, but even so, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a substance only because to you it doesn't "hold a candle" to DMT. The native Americans and the Huichols, not to mention the Incas and their descendants have partaken of the sacred cacti and they have served them well for millenia.

[–] jasn 12 years ago

Thank you for setting it straight. It's disappointing it took this long.

[–] adj88 17 years ago

DMT can be found in many plants. All tree bark has dmt in it. I believe the director was using his special effects to share the experience to the un-experienced viewers. He definitly did his homework. Terrence Mckenna would be proud.

[–] fschuster 16 years ago

I'll have to agree with the previous post, though dmt can be present in many flora present in north America, particularly the north pacific (mushrooms are plentiful there too) there is nothing in the literature that would incline us to believe anyone was using these compounds for divination rituals other than the Amazonian people. Even people inthe Yucatan with just as much shamanistic knowledge and history did not experiment with ayahuasca and if you know anything about it you'll see that the pharmacology of dmt is complex when it comes to oral activation, it makes no sense to think that people were possibly doing these things in the old west, actually its quite a laughable claim.
And if you listen to anything that Terence says you'll understand that few scholars consider peyote a 'psychedelic', its an amphetamine related compound called mescaline that is NOT in the same category as the indol hallucinogens used in Latin American shamanistic rituals. I think the director was trying to steer the peyote experience in this visionary direction, though I'm not at all putting down peyote or San pedro users they certainly very valid spiritual states, all I'm saying is that they're very different things and the producers of the film create a fantastic, innacurate representation of both these things and show very little factual knowledge of the history of human consumption of either

[–] picturethis-1 16 years ago

I'M HAVIN ONE HELL OF A TIME WATCHING IT RIGHT NOW TOTALLY SH'TFACED

NEVER TRY TO TEACH A PIG TO SING....IT WASTES YOUR TIME AND ANNOYS THE PIG

[–] deepaliblue 17 years ago

well I knew that ayahuasca grows only on the amazon...and not at all could it be found in the mountains...but the visuals are indeed close to the ones u experience drinking ayahuasca than peyote...there must be a reason for those peyotes shown in the movie...or msybe this drink is mixed between ayahuasca and peyote;I know there are diferent tipes of drink ...Or it could just be an unknown psychedelic...but the experience itself is ayahuasca like...

A person starts living when he can live outside himself..
Einstein

[–] cableaddict 17 years ago

Joe,

I have no idea what is supposed to be used in the movie, but you are wrong about peyote. Back in my wilder days, drinking it was exactly what everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) did. Because it is so bitter, you blend it with milk, or milk & sugar, then drink it. Then you puke.

Books I've read on the American plains indians report the same: (at least some tribes) They ground it and mixed it with water, then drank it.

The Mayans reportedly also ingested Peyote, (found in what is now Mexico) and the closest translation to how they described the effect is "lucid dreaming."

The active subtance in Peyote is mescaline, not DMT, but the effects aren't so very different from what the movie shows (not that you could ever really show it properly in a film) LSD's effect are, of course, very different. -so they tell me! (g)

Interesting topic.

[–] dcsolorunner 16 years ago

I was about to say the same thing, The only times I have peyote was eating the dried "chip" form, but my navajo team-mate(who gave me peyote) says that when his tribe does it for rituals, they drink it.

[–] j_relayze 16 years ago

Well, there's also a peruvian cactus called San Pedro. It's something like drinking some kind of glue, and it makes you puke. But after that, you start a long and surreal trip (it depends on your dosis of course), like lucid dreaming. Also you can eat dry pieces of San Pedro and if you do a good search in peruvian traditional (old and ugly) market, you can find it in some kind of flour (you have to mix it with any beverage).

Ayahuasca can be a really hardcore experience if you don't find a Shaman or you're with a lot of problems inside your soul. Bad trips are very common, but if the Shaman is good, you can forget about it. I read somewhere that Castaneda is peruvian, maybe he's talking about San Pedro also.

Yes, that's a really interesting topic.

[–] cl-videopolis 16 years ago

Given the licenses found in plot development, we can assure it was some cacti like peyote, which can have the same effects as the san pedro cacti found in peruvian highlands. Both recall hallucinogetic experiences which result in snake-like forms. SO does ayahuasca, which grows in the amazon jungle, not in mexico's frontier.

Another detail is that the clothes of runi and the older shaman are indeed design patterns inspired by shipibo tribes in the amazon. This patterns, as well as the shamanic "songs", are called 'icaros'. Cesar Calvo's novel, "The 3 halves of Ino Moxo" (las tres mitades de ino moxo) is a powerful book about the ayahuasca experience.

[–] supernova2323 16 years ago

.......I CAN ONLY VOUCH FOR MY OWN EXPERIENCES WITH BOTH WHEN I WAS AN ACTIVE PSYCONAUGHTER

...i had a massive dose MESCALITO outside NOGALES in 77 in a circle where we drank the hideously bitter substance out of an iron jug heated on the fire

35 min later i spilled my guts over and over again until i slipped into complete other world time.
which lasted for the rest of the night and slowly returned into the next day

the very fine patternig depicted in the movie was excellent (specially on faces)

...the use of the reptilian and insectoidide is really more of an Ayahuascero's
and DMT "on its own" experience ( DMT can be a 5min ride across the universe on a supersonic motorbike)

....although when i was invited to the world of "THE VINE" using a suitable MAO inhibitor (after also spillin my guts (both ends) which i call "TALKING TO THE STOMACH MIND")

i have experienced anything from "VAN GOGH landscapes" to "INCAN architexture"
.to playing with BOAS and a plethora of other worldly beings.

.i think what the ecellent writers/ dir team did was give a good approx of both with a little bit of MUSSHIES thrown in for good measure
i'm sure TERRANCE would be ok with it

...depfininately the best PSYCONAUTING depiction in a movie yet

[–] MORiBUNDi 16 years ago

I caught the tail end of the film last not on TV, and at first upon seeing peyote that that was the drug taken, but I'm pretty sure that next to the peyote was growing San Pedro cacti, which is native to South America only. If this is the case then it seems there is already an anachronistic element present, so who knows, it could have been ayahuasca.

Mescaline it seems to me does not push one into full fledged phantasmagorical visions like those in the film. From my readings it would appear that all of the elements of the visions were consistent with those experienced under the influence of ayahuasca, especially the emphasis of snakes and reptiles, which is one of the most prevalent visionary motifs experienced by those under the influence of ayahuasca (check out the book Antipodes of the Mind for more on the phenomenology of the ayahuasca expereince).

Also, while it is possible to brew peyote into a tea, its not the traditional way of consuming it. For such a small volume of liquid, as depicted in the film, resulting in such a massive intoxication, the tea would be quite literally a thick syrup, which would almost be unbearable to consume. Also, would like the point out, as cl-videopolis stated that the textural designs are more Amazonian than North American, and the shaman was definitely singing icaros, which is what shamans perform during ayahuasca sessions. All of these things point to the experience being that of Ayahuasca and not peyote. My reading is just academic and not experiential, so I'd like to hear from someone who has ventured into high doses of both substances.

[–] 4KHD 16 years ago

I've been watching it this morning while still pretty much under the influence of San Pedro (3 year old, 30 cm) and I think the visuals in the movie are too much on the "electric"/"artificial" side for San Pedro/mescaline. These kinds of "electric" kind of techno-images are typical for dmt experiences (unless maybe you count lsd into the possibilities, which it is not because it is half-synthetic and has been discovered in Switzerland in 1943 - no Indian history there)
The San Pedro delivers a more clear-headed trip (yet still very spiritual) but not so much a direct confrontation with your demons.
Psilocybin mushrooms come a lot closer to ayahuasca/dmt than mescaline.
Psilocybin's structural formula is 4-Phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine. DMT, the most psychoactive compound in ayahuasca, is N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine. Notice something? ;)

Mescaline is a phenetylamine and structurally closer to mdma than any other of the psychedelic tryptamines.

[–] Nanakiyami 16 years ago

Sure you see some peyote buttons from time to time in the film, but if you know what to look for you can clearly see the thick Ayahuasca vine laying in front of the bowl that Wallace Sebastian Blount a.k.a. Wally drinks from near the end! Learn your *beep* dudes and then you use it to expand your minds!

~If you build it, he will come!

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jamesroo 16 years ago

wow nice to see a lot of stoners watched this film.
i guess u have to be high on something to enjoy it.
sorry iam not or take any drugs maybe why movie not
so clear.

[–] text23 16 years ago

I first watched this film in Utrecht, Holland...where Jan was born (Synchronicity?) a few years ago and have only been able to find the Dutch version on DVD. It has a bunch of extras...but all in French with Dutch subs!!! =(
I became a little obsessed and have searched around a bit about the film and its subject matter (been that I'm a some time Psychonaut). Jan has said that the visual AND ceremonial aspects of the film are taken directly from his very real experiences with Ayahuasca taken with South American shamen.
Yes, there are Peyote in the film, but as also mentioned, to those who know, there is also a vine like plant growing around these things. Personally I think its jus a little artistic license showing both 'Paths' in the film as most people are aware of Peyote and what it looks like rather than plants from which Ayahuasca is derived.
PS. the old shaman in the film is a real shaman!!!!