Growing up on the Navajo Rez, eating peyote wasn't anything special. Kids start eating the stuff in ceremonies at very young ages. As a white boy out on the rez alot of my friends thought it was funny when I would eat peyote and get high. I went to alot of peyote meetings and just ate alot around the house. BUT I NEVER SAW ANYTHING LIKE THIS! Close. But not that intense. And I have eaten and drunk alot at once. Please share your experiences.
shareI think that the reason that the visuals were so intense (some would argue over the top) in the movie was because the Director was trying to capture the feeling (I think that the technical term is 'ego dissolusion') and not just the visions. How the hell can you make the audience feel something that is also emotional and psychological in a visual medium? You gotta up the visual element. It's tricky because some people see the trips in the movie as nothing more than computer generated bells and whistles and don't catch the emotional element that is going on within it. Blueberry and Blout weren't just dudes tripping in the movie either, they were two waring spirits clashing in the spiritual world too. So in a way it's more likely that their trips would be more intense. If you believe in the concepts of shamanism that are shown in the movie, then this is no ordinary trip. The movie would be better suited if it were shown on an IMAX screen, or one of those 360 screens with a moving seat platform that they use on some rides at amusement parks if the audience were going to be able to get totally into the movie, sober anyway. (they could just be required to take some peyote prior to viewing, but hey, it's not a perfect world)
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i was under the impression... not having seen this movie.. but reading the DMT entry on wikipedia makes me believe the characters in this movie were using DMT and not peyote like someone previously suggested.
shareword.
shareretards, why dont you 1st watch the movie befor commenting on it. if you saw the movie, you would obviously see cacti growing in the cave, obviously no beakers or lab eqipment for making DMT. dumbass.
sharebefore calling anyone a "retard" I better suggest you take a good look at yourself, and learn something about shamanic drugs so you'd know what you're talking about, instead of spewing misinformed opinions. DMT is not usually used (smoked) in its lab-purified form, but ingested orally, usually a mixture of DMT containing plant material (such as Mimosa Hostilis root bark) and a MAO inhibitor (such as the Banisteriopsis caapi vine) is used. This herbal mixture is commonly called "ayahuasca", and has been used in South America for thousands of years, probably.
shareive taken ayahausca before(dmt mixed with a maoi) and smoked n,n, dmt. to tell you the truth, it wasnt very visual at all, unlike the smoked form of it. its more of a breakdown of ego, thoughts, and perception of the world. although, the images in the movie renegade depict what may look like a smoked dmt incident, nothing in this world could prepare you for a smoked dmt incident and the visuals u experiance under the influence of smoked dmt are way more intense than that seen in the movie, its very obvious the drug of choice was peyote tea. whoever made the movie had a very good knowledge, because everything fit into what a peyote trip is supposed to be like. the drink tasting awful, vomiting uusally occuring within an hour of ingestion, followed by powerful snakelike and geometrical visuals(very common with peyote)-also everything suddenly comming alive(the plants rising around him)-very common. althougn, i will admit, the visuals experiances aren't usually so intense, keep in mind, the user was given a HIGH dose("this one is strong") and it was his first time. notice how he instantly jumped into a bad trip(common with first time users and high doses). the first time i ever watched this movie, i was incredibly high and i was able to interpret the trip scenes better. right when the narrator starts tripping the first time, i immediately felt familiar to his visions, esp the thing with the hand, that was cool. i also liked how they did auditorial. notice how the indiands chant changes with the visions, from sounding normal to far away, to very close, to hollow(like a robot) to high pitched. if you watch the last trip scene, this is identical to a common peyote visuals of geometrical objects extending throughout the sky with objects mixed and morphing into shapes. another thing i liked was the smoke from the pipe turning into objects and shapes, very common. although its not right on the mark, i dont think anyone should complain, i havent erally seen anyone interpret psychedelic visuals and experiances quiet like this movie, a few have tried, and did a *beep* job, this one (ALMOST) nailed it.
shareOne time out in Many Farms, Az where I grew up at. Me and my friends put well over a hundred peyote buttons through a juicer. Being the typical stoners we were we thought this might cut down on the taste. At that time the most peyote I had taken was about 10 buttons, a few cups of tea, and a couple of doughballs. My friend dares me to slam the whole jug of peyote(which was about a good litre give or take). Being the jackass I was at 15 and thinking I could handle anything in the world and wanting my friends to be impressed I did it. About an hour and a half goes by and my whole world starts melting. I only lived a half a block away but something in me told me to go the other way out around by the wash and Many Farms lake. I found it extremely difficult to walk almost like I was walking underwater. Everything was very liquidy and melty. I felt like I was at the bottom of the ocean floor. I'm glad I didn't see any fish visuals cause that would've just blown my mind. Somehow or another I made it back to the neighborhood I lived in by the elementary school. I layed down in this grassy area in front of my house and looked up at the sky and I had multiple vision. Like a fly. By this time it was dark and there was a star in each perfect cirle of vision bouncing around like a ping pong ball. I shook this vision off and went inside my house. My little brother was sleeping on the couch and there were geometrical shapes coming from his head. I sat on the loveseat for awhile and it started to levatate with me. The floor, the walls, then the rest of the house disappeared and became blank black space. Thats when all the geometrical shape visions kept coming and I started to get scared like I was never gonna come down. I quickly assured myself It was just a trip and I would be fine. The visuals lasted for quite awhile before I slowly and steadily started to come down. It was one of the hardest trips I ever had on peyote. But it sure wasn't the last. Sorry for the long post.
shareJan Kounen is known friend of some Amazonian Shamans and has taken many times ayahuasca and peyote...
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I agree with carrot about it being metaphor for the ego death and archetypes, but if you study shamanism, the songs they would sing and the noises they would make in the film are references to the actual rituals during these trips, and they can make it much more powerful. If you've read anything on Terence McKenna, he's documented (actually I can't remember if it was him or his brother) a time in the amazon when one of the shamans made a certain spiraling noise that had somehow embedded the ayahuasa into his blood (or something along those lines, I forgot the details) and he was tripping for two weeks.
I've never done peyote, though I love mushrooms and salvia and I imagine they're similar in the sense that you trip harder according to the environment and mood you're in, sometimes they might just make you high, and other times it's a transcendental expedition into hyperspace. Maybe they can just create the environment for the latter (not to mention the fasting; those shamans would eat peyote after not eating for a week, I'm sure that's gotta do all kinds of stuff to you).
But circling back to the point carrot made, the director did everything he could to make you feel like you were there and the visuals were a huge part of that, and I'm not just talking about the peyote sequences, I'm saying how much it made it feel like you were flying over the desert in those huge moving establishing shots, and how he changed color schemes depending on what place you were in. He's a frenchie, of course he's gonna be a visual director!
I have spent time in the Amazon doing ayahuasca, and it is much more intense than peyote. ayahuasca is a brewed tea consisting of two plants, one of which contains DMT, the other one makes the DMT orally active as well makes it last hours instead of minutes the way smoked DMT does. Incidentlly, there are hundreds of plants that contain DMT. as well as some frogs (you can lick them).
I am certain the director had ayahuasca in mind when he made this film. You drink it out of a small cup like that, a horrible tasting liquid. Also the shamans in the film were wearing traditional Shipibo patterns, which is the Amazonian tribe that uses ayahuasca. The songs they sing are ACTUAL icaros which are the songs the guide sings to guide your journey . Actually it blows me away this movie is made because THE VISIONS THAT THEY SEE ARE EXACTLY LIKE VISIONS I HAVE SEEN. Those spirits exist, they are everywhere, those demons . THEY LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THAT and they feed on fear and anger . There are the spider ones, the reptilian ones, and the octopoidal ones. With tentacles. The only ones the movie showed that I have not seen in my visions are the centipedes. Hope I never meet up with those. IN REAL LIFE THESE DEMONS possess people. Hate to break it to you all, but that is how it is. I watched the journey scenes with my jaw dropping open because I never imagined anyone could capture those demons so perfectly. And capture the feeling of being split open by an entheogenic plant. This is EXACTLY what it is like to take a heroic dose of ayhuasca. It's not for everyone, and so, neither is this film. Trust me folks, there is way more to the universe than exists in your philosophy.
I couldn't believe this movie was made and mis-marketed as a Western, so that many people like many of the people here could see it and hate it and not understand it. It absolutely blows my mind. The story was a bit simple and boring until what happened at the end, which was epic. MASTERPIECE!!
Great post elicia-1
thanx
I just came up with a great idea for a sequel!
Mike S. Blueberry vs. The Cosmic Self-Transforming Machine Elves in Hyperspace
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Not many will get that, but those who do will see the genuis in it.
They should do it I say!
I read once in a Terence Mckenna interview that his book "True hallucinations" (in which he describes his experiences in the Amazon) was being made into a movie, but I never found out more about it... Does such movie exists?
If not, that would be a movie I'd die to see!
It's a DMT trip!
share hey, ive done peyote as well as peruvian torch and pure mescaline once. the movie depicts a near fatal dose in which both take probably near 1000-2000mgs of mescaline(ive never gone that high). during the trip, it shows the perspective of mike, runi, and his enemy. the last thing mikes enemy sees before he dies, is an memory of mike screaming in agony, and a pattern forming, and breaking away with mikes scream echoing in the distance. this was probably, for the first time ever in his life, the development of conciousness, and a feeling of revulsion for all the negative things done wrong. it then shows the persepctive of mike, who watches him die, and shows visuals of his spirit escaping his body. in an earlier scene, it shows what appears to be, mike shooting him, but i dont think thats what happened. i think he died of a mescaline overdose(trust me it has happened before).
"hes dead, and now its my turn"
he really believes hes gonna die(and comes very close to it), think of when he gets up and sais "runi, help",, and thats very common with peyote doses, especially to that intensity. hell the first time i ever tripped on mescaline, was with peruvian torch. i didnt think it was gonna work because i had tried with a few other species like san pedro(crappy). sure enough i started feeling a weird feverish feeling that built up. i still to this day remember the first hallucination mescaline has ever given me. i was laying on my couch, spaced out. and the couch i was laying on started playing orchestra songs, i looked around, and the loveseat in front of me turned into a weird spongebob like creature playing an accordian. i didnt just see it, i heard it. ive never tripped on LSD, ever still. Before trying mescaline, the only trip ive had under my belt was shrooms(which had no noticable effect) and DXM(AWFUL DRUG). Dxm isnt even a trip, its just a drug, a synthetic, awful drug. I wasnt expecting the effects of mescaline, and at some point of the trip, i felt like my heart was stopping and that i was dying. the movie is different. im sure they were tripping for at least 2 days. pure mescaline is the best, theres no body high, no naseau, no indegistine, just a smoooth pure trip that comes on quicker. to be quite honest with you, ive never purged in a peyote session, not once. Ive prayed to the porcelain god a few times, but nothing would ever come out. the most important trip ive ever had was also one of the strongest. i mixed about 3 ounces of peyote and boiled it down to one shot. probably around 1000mgs. u could practically see the mescaline flakes floating around(they usually chill at the bottom of the drink), it was so strong, that i expected to have to wait(like usual) for at least two hours to "start" tripping, but this came on quicker, i started seeing snakes crawling in between my posters within less than an hour, and i went someplace that night that is beyond human explanation. the movie describes it in a good way. in fact, if you watch renegade while on peyote, youll notice things you normally dont see with the naked eye, esp during the trip scenes. if you watch one of the trip scenes while tripping on peyote, youll feel like your part of the trip, its hard to explain but watch it. i myself am a shaman, and personally know many of the navajo healing songs by heart. (they get it from the peyote)