War in Atlantic


I saw this movie yesterday and I liked it very much. There was only one thing that bothered me. The story is set in 1943, and this American sub is being attacked by a German destroyer in the Atlantic??? As far as I know it was the Allies who were sending convoys across the Atlantic, and Germans were using subs to hunt down those convoys. There was no German navy to speak of, except for the subs. Anybody know more about this?


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As far as I know, except for Graff Spee and Admiral Sheer, there were no real naval actions of the German surface vessels during the WWII. And there are no reported German attacks on submarines in the Atlantic War.

This also has a rationale:
Because of the nature of the submarines, their areas of operation are limited. Especially in the WWII era, they were very limited. The only places where an allied sub may be attacked by German surface vessels is the British Channel where RAF was constantly operative since the evacuation of Dunkirk in 1941 and no need for submarine action was required. other may be the action in Norway but there was always Task Forces to supress the formidable Tirpitz, so a submarine would be an unnecessary risk, and these fjords were always bombed by RAF again. it could be for supporting Operation torch, western coasts of north africa or in other remote places but there were NO surface vessels of German navy around such places either.

So the story is fiction. to make it moer realistic with german cew but that would against the chauvinism and US fascism and would require the brains and guts of director highly above the current one.

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I believe you're right about German surface vessels -- but it was worth it for the cool but science-fictiony scene where they dragged the giant hooks along the bottom.

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I think you all missed it - the setting of our story was only "a couple of days" from English ports. Also, when reading the Captain's log it's apparent they had some kind of sneak and peek mission (since they were taking covert photographs of the enemy sub tenders) which obviously could NOT have taken place in the mid-Atlantic. Thus, it's entirely plausible for our heroes to encounter disproportionate numbers of German vessels.

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Don't forget about the Bismarck, it sank the Brits' Hood... but you're basically correct, the German surface fleet was so totally outnumbered by the Royal Navy that their role was marginal at best.

The movie is so completely ahistorical that I quit watching half way through. Having an American submarine in the Atlantic being depth-charged by a German destroyer in 1943 is just too preposterous... the Americans didn't have subs in the Atlantic (at least nowhere near areas where they might conceivably have encountered a German destroyer), and by 1943 the Allies pretty much already controlled the ocean up to the point where even the U-boats were in serious trouble... a German destroyer would have been blown to bits in no time.

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THe Bismarck was sunk in May 1941, after that the German Kreigsmarine never put to sea again and remained in port.

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"So the story is fiction. to make it moer realistic with german cew but that would against the chauvinism and US fascism and would require the brains and guts of director highly above the current one."

Yeah, because the US was portrayed so positively in this movie, you know by blowing up the British medical ship and all that.

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Z-class destroyers were all but anihilated during the invasion of Norway by Germany. Few survived, the ones that did did not venture out far, let alone on the atlantic. ..... and they DEFINATELY did not have ASDIC (sonar).

other than that, cool movie, way underrated!

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The German ship in the movie looks like a destroyer, and they say in the movie it is one, when they spot it first. The Germans had sonar, after all it was invented during World War One already, even though I don't think it was used operationally back then. So by World War 2 it was no secret. The Germans had it, no question about it, and a destroyer would without a doubt have it, they are submarine killers. Check Uboat.net or whatever site you want. So that was no goof.

It is true however that the German destroyer force took horrible losses during the invasion of Norway, and that German destroyers usually didn't venture very far out into the open Atlantic ocean - I don't know if they ever did.

However, we are supposed to be close to England - they say right after picking up the survivors that "we could put you ashore in England, but that would be a 300 mile detour". That would be very close to England, and possibly to German bases in occupied France, maybe only a few hours out from base for the Germans. So it is not totally unbelievable that a German destroyer turns up and starts chasing them with sonar.

The sub is obviously a Gato class, a big American sub. It looks convincing to me. I've been aboard the museum sub Nordkaparen, that's a Draken class sub from Sweden, which was a class of subs in service during WW2, and it doesn't look that terribly different from the sub in the movie. The Nordkaparen was more cramped than the sub in the movie, that's true. Of course, the Draken class was only 66 meters (200 feet) long, and had a 35 men wartime crew. The Gato class was 95 meters (300 feet) long, and had a 80 men wartime crew. So I guess a big Gato class sub would seem a lot less cramped than one of those dinky Draken class ones. The movie seems convincing to me, when it comes to portraying the sub itself.

I was told during my visit to Nordkaparen, and also by a colleague who used to serve as an officer on a Västergötland class sub in the Swedish navy (much more recently than WW2), that the discipline on a sub generally is different from that of a surface ship. Not less discipline, but different. More like in a sports team, like in a football team or whatever. The distance between captain and sailor is shorter, the atmosphere less formal. The atmosphere on the sub in "Below" wasn't totally unreal to me, I've served in the armed forces myself (Kustartilleriet in Sweden - an amphibious force with an interesting mix of naval and army equipment) so I have some experience of what it means to be a private working in an informal atmosphere alongside officers. But they sure did seem to have some kind of serious attitude problem on that sub in the movie - she was never a happy ship to begin with. But I suppose that might happen sometimes, that discipline breaks down. So the movie seems acceptable to me, at least, when it comes to portraying the crew. Not the best of crews, I'd expect better of a US Navy Gato class crew, but not totally beyond belief.

So I agree with tobyl-1 that this movie is way underrated, even if I don't agree about the German lack of sonar - they did have sonar! Minor gripe, no offense intended.

Anyway, considering it really isn't a war movie, but a horror movie, it is still a very good u-boat movie!

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The German Navy is still fairly underrated when it comes to talking about its importance in WWII. I just read an article about a German Naval flotilla operating out of the Channel Islands between France and England and apparently they kept up a reasonably sizable force even until the German surrender in 1945 believe it or not. Granted, the biggest ship they had were two Z-Class destroyers, but they had many many heavily armed minesweepers which doubled as patrol craft, and even more fast attack torpedo boats. Yes, the general idea is that the Germans only used submarines and the odd battleship (Bismarck, Tirpitz, etc) but their destroyer force (what was left after Norway) was up to completing the tasks they were assigned for the rest of the war, namely the protection of Swedish ore shipments across the Baltic Sea to Germany and patrolling the Norwegian, French and Dutch coasts.
What I found more unbelieveable was the use of an American sub in the Atlantic, didnt most of them (and by most i mean pretty much all of them) serve in the Pacific against the Japanese? What with so few targets suitable for a submarine in the Atlantic, i imagine most of them would have been assigned as Air/Sea rescue craft as some were in the Pacific.

just some random thoughts from a history nut

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What I found more unbelieveable was the use of an American sub in the Atlantic, didnt most of them (and by most i mean pretty much all of them) serve in the Pacific against the Japanese? What with so few targets suitable for a submarine in the Atlantic, i imagine most of them would have been assigned as Air/Sea rescue craft as some were in the Pacific.


The US Navy did operate several (6 I think, though I'm not sure) fleet boats in the Atlantic for a relatively short period. The idea, again, if I remember right, was to prey on German submarines with other submarines. At least one of the boats was lost, though I don't remember how. The subs involved were eventually reassigned to the Pacific.

As for targets, the British conducted their own submarine operations against the Germans U-boat efforts...not really hunting the U-boats themselves, but ships that would resupply them at sea and other such. The crew in Below seemed pretty eager to believe they'd sunk a German sub tender, so perhaps the Tiger Shark was engaged in similar operations.

In any case, the presence of a US submarine in the Atlantic is plausble.

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[deleted]

The German navy also relied sucessfully upon surface raiders, one of which went around the world sinking Allied shipping. Surface raiders were heavily armed ships disguised as merchantmen. The story of the most sucessful one was told in the rarely seen but excellent film, Under Ten Flags starring Van Heflin

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You are speaking about Graf Spee or ADmiral Sheer or Deutschland but actually, as you have mentioned they were raiders not destroyers.

About post above. I did not comment of the quality of the movie. I just think it was unhistorical.

The reports about German navy seems to contradict with the memoirs of Doenitz who were in charge of u-boats until '43 and later the whole navy. Unfortunately ı don't have the book now to confirm but I remember by '43 even u-boats were scared even to surface at nights to charge their batteries because they were found and destroyed in many occasions, even out of the way of the allied task forces.

though I don't think it was much underrated I think it was a good watch and even that becomes harder to come by nowadays.

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Many good points here. Basically, the overall factual basis for what you see here is scant, at best.

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