MovieChat Forums > Carmen: A Hip Hopera (2001) Discussion > The problem with this...

The problem with this...

posted 19 years ago by miss_cand
29 replies | jump to latest

I do kind of like this film, I like the music and I think the idea of making the opera 'Carmen' into a hip-hopera was pretty cool. But I think we're meant to actually like Carmen aren't we? The epilogue says something like how she's one in a million and how there'll never be anyone like her again. Is that just because she was beautiful? Because I wouldn't say there was anything else special about her. If anything she's not even a likeable character, she's vain, selfish and manipulative. Maybe if they gave her some 'nice' qualities it'd be easier to feel sorry for her, but I just felt sorry for Hill at the end (and also Blaze!). In the opera is the character of Carmen a 8itch too? Does anyone know?

"Someday I will return and destroy your weapons of meanness and hurting!"

[–] XTreeme6755 19 years ago

i actually got to see Carmen in a new york opera house ... it was really hard to pay attention cuz (haha)
ONE: their dialogoue wasn't in freakin english (there was subtitles)
TWO: it was my first live opera (the phantom of the opera movie was wicked)
THREE: despite all this previous crap, we were all up on the fifth floor ... (could it've gotten any crappier?!) it's hard to try not to doze, it was kind of boring and im only 16 but ... the ending was unsuspected and everyone was cheering for carmen

aside from my bitching, yeah you are supposed to like carmen in the end (i think she died). i don't remember if she slept around. but i do remember she was a sleeze

[–] White_base_groupie 18 years ago

- Opera is usually in a foreign language. Deal with it.
- Phantom of the Opera isn't an opera, it's a musical
- Clearly this opera was wasted on you. Pity, I'd kill to see an opera in New York, especially "Carmen."

I maintain that teenagers shouldn't see opera unless they know exactly what they're getting themselves into it.

[–] DarcyBrandon 15 years ago

^I agree White_base_groupie. How could anyone complain about watching Carmen in New York? I would love to see that.

[–] Tanu Tuva 8 years ago

Yeah, he says they were cheering for Carmen but doesn't realize they were cheering the performance and not the character.

Of course Carmen is not meant to be a likeable character!

Opera is about the music, not the story. Even a 16-year-old should realize that it's for people who listen to that kind of music. You are expected to know the story ahead of time because you can't possibly follow the story from hearing it sung in a foreign language. (Shakespeare is the same to an extent.) They even give you a program book with a summary. You're supposed to read it before the music starts if you don't know the story.

I listened to classical from the age of 14, and you're right, of course, to say teenagers shouldn't go, but neither should anyone else unless they really listen to it. Since The Three Tenors popularized it we have a lot of people in concerts now who don't have a clue. They applaud every time there's a pause because they don't understand that silent pauses are part of the music, and the pauses are supposed to be silent. They even start applauding during the diminuendo at the end of a piece because they think it's close enough to the end. I want to kill them. People who listen hold their breaths during a diminuendo, then wait for the echo to die, before we applaud.

I have never heard Carmen live, but I've heard operas at The Met and The New York State Theater (also part of Lincoln Center) and other theaters in NYC, and I heard Aida in the Baths of Caracalla in Rome. That was special because the stone floor allowed everything from horse-drawn chariots to elephants to parade across the stage.

If you get your wish and hear an opera in New York, make sure it's at The Met, home of The Metropolitan Opera. The New York State Theater is the home of the New York City Opera company, and they are not always good. A performance of theirs might have one really good performer but the rest mediocre. Of course, The Metropolitan Opera also tours, so they might come to you.

[–] homisthecat 18 years ago

When you go see an opera you should really learn the story behind it first, it will make you appreciate it more... and I love the habanera from Carmen; I got to see it in an NYC Opera house but I couldn't see too well cuz I didn't have glasses then (such a pity)...

[–] lilcainine2000 19 years ago

Yeah that was crud how all the bad stuff happened to Phiphers chracter too he was the best character I thought.

"I spit the truth and only the truth"

[–] briana_002 19 years ago

basically, she was a b!tch

____

"MaCKENZIE"

[–] lil_cinderella007 19 years ago

in the original, Carmen was a gypsey...a seductive one. she's supposed to be a victim to herself living a life of seduction, and that's it. She can't change-it's just her nature.

"If you teach a girl to fear sunlight, all her life, can you blame her if she doesn't want to go out and play?"~Great Expectations

[–] trish984 18 years ago

I totally agree with you, I mean I liked the movie especially the music, and sure Beyonce rocked it and really put some kind of flavor in her character Carmen, I liked her game, she looked amazing, very sexy and attractive, but... she was definetely mean : she enjoyed hitting on other people's men and creating trouble, she was selfish and manipulative, and hey, she got into a fight!! what kind of a Diva is that? and she ruined Hill's life. So at the end, I didn't quite understand when they said there will never be anyone else like her, I think the movie failed on that one, because in the end there was really nothing special or even likeable about that girl, she was just mean, think she was beautiful? but what is beauty if you don't have it from the inside ! I think they should have removed the epilogue cause' it contradicts the whole movie and it seems kind of hypocrit too. So what, we're supposed to have some kind of pity for Carmen just because of her looks? That ain't right, wrong is wrong even if you look like a star, i mean don't let the looks fool you, and know how to control yourself, something that looks good doesn't mean it is good, sometimes you just have to accept your life the way it is, your girl might not be a diva, her game might be "wack" but that's fine, because you don't know how much trouble a diva could bring into your life.

[–] tellaarm 18 years ago

The whole thing was AWFUL!

[–] Tsukasa10101 18 years ago

Like they say 'Beauty is only skin deep'

[–] madden_football05 18 years ago

I agree with you 100 percent. i think when they say there will never be another one like Carmen, is because of her quialities. There will never be another manipulative person like that. You will never find another girl like her. At least I hope I never do. Beyonce played the he*ll out of that character thoough. Big Ups to you B.

[–] menace_sfs 18 years ago

Many would argue that my account is going to be very biased, but I'm just going to be real. Although I love Beyonce more than anything, the movie wasn't the greatest in the world. I love the whole idea of the film being a 'hip hopera', it's very unique and interesting. Beyonce played a very minipulating, greedy, selfish character which she pulled off very well as it completely subverts the generic qualities of Beyonce's personality. Playing a charater that is nothing like you makes you a stronger person and a greater actress. So I'm just going to say, Beyonce..you did well!

[–] KaleshaB 18 years ago

I guess maybe the fact that aside from all of the evil stuff that she has done, she had true dreams of her own and wanted success within a career, love & her friends. Thats why they showed somewhat sympathy for her at the end, although as we all know, she doesnt really deserve it. But I still luv this movie!!!!

[–] HMCarper 18 years ago

6 of one, half dozen of another...

In the original opera, Carmen is a gypsy...she causes trouble wherever she goes, not because she sets out to, but because she doesn't live by the dull standards of everyday life...she is beautiful, rebellious and determined to live life free on her own terms, a very seductive and potent combination. Yes, she is manipulative ( she convinces Don Jose " Hill" into releasing her from prison, an impulsive act that makes him lose his stability as an officer and run away with her) but not maliciously so. She just leaves a lot of collateral damage in her wake.

But she's not a "heroine" either. Don Jose/Hill is still portrayed as the innocent victim of her charms, powerless to resist her, he leaves his post, his fiancee, all forms of respectibility to fall in with her band of gypsies and , never to return to normal life. He tires of her flirting, feels she owes him for his sacrifice. She quickly becomes bored with him and his complaining. When she catches the eye of a rising young matador, she leaves Don Jose in the dust. In a jealous rage, Don Jose catches her outside the arena, insisting that she ruined his life and must return to him. When she coldly rejects him, he stabs her. The moral of the story: wicked women are the ruination of noble men and will come to no good end.

This of course has dated with time...a woman who openly drinks, smokes, dances on tables and cavorts with men isn't a vixen, she's Tara Reid. And any guy who falls for that is played, not pitied. My guess is, they tried to make her more of a hootchie/golddigger to keep Jose/Hill as the object of pity...but in doing so killed any sense of what made her extraordinary in the first place (thereby defeating the purpose of the alterations)

[–] baddbrittany16 18 years ago

I'am with you I think it is very good and I don't see a problem with it either I saw it last night and it was good.

[–] los_2000 18 years ago

ONE: their dialogoue wasn't in freakin english (there was subtitles)

...umm, that foreign language was probably called French. Who did you attend the opera with, a local drunken bum off the streets? When you attend an Opera it's not like going to a movie or musical. The more you know going before attending, the better the experience will be. Most people read different kinds synopsis so they'd have a clue what's going on.

As for "Carmen the tragedy". Anything with "Hip Hopera" in the title is going to be garbage. Strange thing is that half the people who actually liked this movie : A. Don't know who Georges Bizet is. or B. Think that "Habanera" is spicy chile pepper.

I never much cared for Carmen, but I did appreciate how it tried to make Opera appeal to the masses (People, if you only knew the drama that occurs in Operas..., insest, sex, adultry, sex,love, sex, jealously, violence, suspense, drama, etc, and did I mention sex lol.)on that note I love Don Giovanni but if I ever hear of attempt to make this one happen as another lame attempt on "Hip Hopera" than it's safe to say that we're all going to die and everyone has lost their minds.

As both a music educator and an African-American I was offend by the trash. Ok idea, but still terrible.

Fun facts: For a year after its premiere, Carmen was considered a failure; denounced by critics as 'immoral' and 'superficial'.

For those who think all opera is sung than check out The Beggar's Opera by John Gay.

[–] wait_dream 18 years ago

Carmen in the opera is supposed to be a free-spirited woman who lives life to its fullest. As someone mentioned, she is also a gypsy who has had a rather wild life. I personally couldn't stand her character, though. She flirts with many man, ruins their lives (though unintentionally), and breaks their hearts. At least she destroys the heart of one man. Of course I feel bad for her in the end; I consider it a tradgedy. It doesn't mean she was supposed to be likable. But she was supposed to be amazingly seductive and magnetic. Note: I have not seen the hip hop version, so I can't compare.

[–] celloboots 18 years ago

this movie was hysterically funny b/c of how bad it was: lyrics like "I wouldn't leave you in Berlin in Post-War Germany..."

I was very disturbed by the messaging in this movie that was applied as "normal", like when Carmen turns on Hill b/c he can't get a job (b/c she expected him to violate parole). As an African-American woman, I see this messaging often flung toward youth and reflected by them, too... which is really scary. I guess moral, self-esteem type movies are only for middle-class white girls. Eat your heart out, feminism.

I say this because it seemed evident that in this rendition of Carmen we were supposed to sympathize with Beyonce's character, as she reflects stereo-types of "street life".

It was all very frightening if you think of it being targeted to young teens. I mean, I admire the intent, but the messaging all around was disturbing. There wasn't ONE likable character... well, maybe the fiance.

[–] crazyeightyeight 17 years ago

I'm actually writing about this right now for a class I'm taking. In the original novella, Carmen doesn't really exist except as a male fantasy--other than what Don José feels for her, we don't know anything at all about her character, motivations, intentions, life without Don José, etc. So naturally modern filmmakers would try to flesh her out, to make her more human. But I think when you get to know Carmen too well (I mean, actually know her, and not think you do like in the opera), she becomes thoroughly unpleasant and not special at all. It's the mystery that draws Don José to her in the original.

It also bothered me that Hill didn't kill Carmen at the end. I think the filmmakers must have realized that no one could be so obsessed with this characterization of Carmen that they would be driven to kill her out of jealousy. Interesting thought.

"You are just in your own little Euripides play over there, aren't you?"

[–] 32cm 17 years ago

If you're talking about the original novella by Prosper Mérimée, i think you didn't understand much of it. Doesn't really exist? just a fantasy? so who killed the girl in the tabacco-factory in the beginning of the story?

[–] girljms 17 years ago

I love Beyonce..

/Life would be boring without music and movies/