MovieChat Forums > Hornblower: Retribution (2001) Discussion > Hobbs at Trial *spoilers*

Hobbs at Trial spoilers

posted 19 years ago by Triple-G
17 replies | jump to latest

***Spoilers***

Awesome film, but I am confused by Hobbs at the trial.

It is obvious he had profound respect for Captain Sawyer and hatred for Horatio.
So I am trying to put this in order:

Acting Capt. Buckland is obviously coming apart, but he also would not have announced Horatio pushed the Captain unless he had evidence to back it up-which would have been Hobbs, who obviously told Buckland that Willard said that Horatio had pushed Sawyer. When Hobbs walked in Sawyer was already dead and Willard dying and asked what he said, "he said I was brave," but then whispered something in Hobbs ear, and you see his expression. From this I would gather he said Horatio did it, so then I assume he told Buckland, he announced it at the trial, but then when Hobbs took the stand said he didn't know. Even if Willet had not told him anything he still could have implicated Horatio. I also have a hard time believing that Willard would have implicated anyone, but it is clear he said something to upset Hobbs.

So after writing all that, I guess it is subject to intrepretation. Maybe the deaths of Sawyer and Willard played on his mind, or maybe Hobbs respected Sawyer's history of courage and did not see that in Buckland and when it came down to it, he would not allign himself with someone opposite of Sawyer at the trial, or felt he would not go against any of his comrades and felt he was now a part of the crew and would not implicate Horatio.

[–] ivanovaat 19 years ago

Interesting.....I watched the episode operating on the assumption that Horatio did not push Sawyer..as I do not believe it would be consistant with his character. I can see Horatio confronting Sawyer, I can see him rallying others around him against Sawyer if he truly believed it was for the good of the service (which, of course, is what he did), but I can't see him doing anything as cowardly as pushing a demented man down a hole in the dark, then refusing to own up to the act.

I therefore interpreted the whispered info to Hobbs differently. I thought that either the perpetrator was someone Hobbs KNEW couldn't have done it, or the whisper was that the Captain realized in the end, that he had simply fallen. Either way, Hobbs would've been shocked. Hobbs had seen himself as the one person who stuck with his Captain to the end. While everyone else around him "plotted", Hobbs' admiration for Sawyer kept him on his side. It HAD to have been obvious that his beloved leader was no longer the man he used to be, but I figured that Hobbs loyalty overrode his objectivity when assessing the coherence of Sawyer, and to the end Hobbs always thought that though irrational and bedevilled, if Sawyer said someone had pushed him - someone pushed him.

It would have been devastating to Hobbs to realized he'd been running around trying to find a "figment". I believe that during the time before his testimony he would've been rethinking the events and realized, that if NO ONE had pushed the Captain, that threw new light on the Officers' actions. He was contemplating the gallows when Styles spit on him and called hiim "Judas" (just prior to his testimony....***A comment I found rather ironic considering he was being called a traitor for NOT participating in the mutiny!). Perhaps this contemplation was intended to convey that Hobbs was weighing the consequences of Hornblower being found guilty. Trying to decide if the punishment was something Hornblower deserved, as he now rethought the events.

I really saw Hobbs as a sort of alter-Hornblower. Hobbs was as loyal to Sawyer as I like to think Hornblower would've been toward Pellew, had Pellew gone insane.

Then again....maybe I'm just soft on Hobbs 'cause he's cute! :)
A

[–] sakimoto51 19 years ago

gcj29 said, "Acting Capt. Buckland is obviously coming apart, but he also would not have announced Horatio pushed the Captain unless he had evidence to back it up-which would have been Hobbs..."

Wrong. Capt. Buckland's jealousy (while he was being humiliated in court) prompted him to make the accusation, and he was banking on Hobbs' hatred of Horatio to corroborate it. It's obvious from Buckland's response to Capt. Hammond's question, "Is there anyone else who can support this claim?" Buckland says, yes, and then pauses and says "I believe there is".

As for Willard, there's not a chance in hell that he would've implicated Horatio, even if that is who Capt. Sawyer said pushed him. Willard makes it quite clear in the show that he is willing to die for Horatio. What I think simply happened is that Willard never named anyone and just died. I guess that would also explain the title chapter "A Man Of Honor" which makes sense of my interpretation of the events. An honorable man wouldn't lie in court, and Hobbs claimed he did not know, which obviously means that Willard died before naming anyone.

Häppiness and Härmony

[–] sage-presage 19 years ago

Agree. I don't believe Wellard would tell Hobbs Horatio pushed Sawyer. But it seems that Wellard believed Horatio DID push Sawyer so he said "I can't let you remember" or else he should say "I can't let you tell a lie".

[–] sakimoto51 19 years ago

Good point, but I don't think it necessarily means that Willard knew or even thought that Horatio did it. Willard knows he did not push Sawyer, but he doesn't know for a fact that Sawyer was even pushed at all since he never actually saw it. This is obvious since he is quite clear about not knowing who pushed Sawyer in the first place. So, when he says "I can't let you remember", I think he really does mean "I can't let you tell a lie." This makes sense to me since from the very beginning Sawyer has a history of making up false allegations. And it's not as if they are false to Sawyer, since he really does believe them. If Sawyer were to remember who pushed him, he could very well be remembering something he has actually made up in his own mind. He has lost his mind, remember? I hope it makes sense to you.

Häppiness and Härmony

[–] peggygeordie 12 years ago

If Welland simply didn't want Sawyer to tell a lie, he would have said so. What he said - clearly in an emotional state - was "I can't let you remember" so he was saving one of his heroes (Kennedy or Hornblower).

He may have told Hobbs that Hornblower did it as a dying confession... it is debateable whether Hobbs had somehow suggested to Buckland that he WOULD back him up regarding Hornblower, or Buckland was simply counting on a mutual hatred of Hornblower, not realizing that Hobbs' own growing respect for Hornblower - Philip Glenister has said how many times he had to come up with a look for "grudging respect" for Hornblower as they filmed - together that Sawyer was now dead with a clean reputation - meant that he was free to either 1) tell the truth (that he didn't know) or 2) tell a half truth (that he couldn't say) because he did want to save Hornblower. I absolutely love the look he gives him at that moment, and wish Hobbs could have gone on to serve Hornblower with the same devotion he gave to his old captain.

[–] ember_firedrake 19 years ago

Sawyer didn't actually tell Willard who pushed him. He just said "I remember who pushed me!" and then the door opened and they got shot. Willard wouldn't implicate Hornblower, and having heard no name from Sawyer's mouth my guess is that he didn't tell Hobbs anything. If you look, Hobbs says "Tell me" and as he leans in Willard dies.

The reason Hobbs didn't implicate Hornblower out of hatred for him is because of what Hornblower said to Hobbs when Sawyer died. "He was a man of honor, and he died in battle." Those words touched Hobbs, so even though he could have implicated Hornblower out of spite, he did the honest thing and said he didn't know.

--
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
SIPTEA

[–] sakimoto51 19 years ago

Absolutely!!! Those words touched Hobbs so much that he repeated them at the trial!

Häppiness and Härmony

[–] LadyDewhurst 19 years ago

Keeping in mind, that the captain's mind was gone even though he showed signs of sanity just before he and Wellard were shot.
There were countless hints through out Mutiny and *Number 6* that Sawyer keep seeing Horatio's shadow above him, which lead me to believe that Sawyer was convinced that Horatio did it!
Nonetheness, as you pointed out earlier Sawyer did never really tell Wellard who, and therefore he couldn't have possibly told Hobbs. But is there still a possiblity that Sawyer DID tell Wellard in one of the shots we didn't see? If so I am convinced that he would've said "Hornblower".
So when Hobbs enters and talks to Wellard, Wellard would've been expected to say "Hornblower" or "I didn't find out".
But again, remember when Wellard said "I can't let you remember," and how loyal Wellard was to the Lieutenants, saving their lives even if it ment his own.
So... I highly doubt that Wellard would've told Hobbs it was Horatio even if the captain had said so.
It was, I agree, Buckland's envy and embarassment that led him to accuse Hornblower.
And Hobbs simply didn't know!

ARCHIE LIVES ON!!!! [I can prove it too!]

Lady Dewhurst

[–] LadyDewhurst 19 years ago

Yes, yes, I realise how pathetic I am replying to my own comment... but after having a discussion with a friend of mine...
Perhaps Wellard told Hobbs that he himself pushed the captain; I'm thinking the scene between Archie and Wellard where he says, "I owe my life to three Lieutenants aboard this ship and I would do anything to repay them."
So when Wellard knew he was going to die he told Hobbs it was him; so that Horatio, Lt Bush and Archie could live. Huh. Nice plan.
Thank you, thank all of you!

[–] wnewman106 19 years ago

In the book, which is different than the show, Wellard, the midshipman is the one who pushed the captain because the captain had been having him "kiss the gunner's daughter", that is, being beaten. Horatio knew, or suspected, Wellard had done it, but kept Wellard's secret by saying the captain must have overbalanced and fallen on his own. This is in keeping with all the Hornblower books and movies.

[–] tammy-20 19 years ago

When Wellard and Hobbs are waiting for the cannon to be lifted up Hobbs says something to him about Wellard being so doped up on laudenum at the time that he wouldn't remember if he pushed him or not. Then he asks Horatio if he ever did anything and then forgot he did it. My personal opinion is that nobody pushed him, they were all trying to grab him but missed. When Wellard "can't let him remember" I think it's because he thinks Horatio or Archie might have done it, but he can't remember so he wants to protect them. However, becuase the accusation was made by the first lieutenant in court, someone has to take the fall (no pun intended).

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] jleslie48 18 years ago

well said meteor-4. I think you got it.

[–] peggygeordie 12 years ago

Good point, however while Hornblower's words may have been the turning point, Hobbs' feelings had been building for a long time toward admiration of Hornblower - it was just that he was still conflicted by his long service with Sawyer. I suspect that Hobbs' testimony would always have been honest - he would not have pushed so hard to learn the truth if he could always have damned Hornblower with a lie - but everything came together so that he could speak the words he needed to to save Hornblower (or at least, keep him from the gallows long enough for Jamie to save him!).

[–] shawnamills 19 years ago

I still think Wellard told Hobbs he (Wellard) did it, in order to clear Horatio's name.

Either that, or he breathed his last breath before he could spill the beans. I don't think Wellard said Horatio did it, because Hobbs would have backed up Buckland's accusation.

[–] peggygeordie 12 years ago

Not necessarily. I could go either way with whether Wellard told Hobbs anything, but you have to pay close attention to what Hobbs' real conflict is, and actually there are many layers. First an idolized captain vs. charismatic young upstart (but someone for whom he has a growing if grudging respect)... the good of the service... the need to keep his captain's honor intact (solved as suggested by Hornblower's words)... the knowledge that Buckland is NOT command material and Hornblower is.... Regardless of what he knows or doesn't know, his testimony is not only carefully worded but represents a transfer of his loyalty to Hornblower, and I love the real dignity of that moment.