MovieChat Forums > The Mole (2001) Discussion > Disappointed in the winner

Disappointed in the winner

posted 16 years ago by mickfly718
17 replies | jump to latest

In the first two seasons, the winners were not the first to discover who the mole was. Charlie pegged Kathryn right off the bat, and Heather used process of elimination to key in on Bill. While they were first, they were not the only ones to discover the identity of the mole. Stephen and Jim figured it out pretty early on making Stephen a respectable winner. Dorothy, while not figuring it out on her own, still used her knowledge to get rid of Al and get to the final 3, needing only to beat Heather at a memory game to win the quiz.

Mark, however, literally had no idea who was the mole until the final execution of Paul. And even then he made a gut decision (Craig) instead of a logical decision (Nicole, at least from his standpoint) and got lucky.

I can't imagine how pissed Paul must have been as John went through and pointed out all the times Mark was just seconds from execution. On top of that, Paul would have made final 3 had it not been for the last exemption, since Mark still had no idea that it was Craig. It also kind of trivializes Paul's game, since so many players had no clue (Victoria, Kristen, Clay, etc) but can say they played well since they tied the winner.

As much as I hated the two players, I would have much rather seen Paul or Nicole win over Mark. At least they played as shrewed detectives who drew suspicion away from their mole and onto themselves. And the producers must have been kicking themselves when he gave that confessional early on about how Craig is the perfect mole since he's so likeable. He saw right through their ploy.

Mark may have played a better game than I'm seeing, but it just seems like he meticulously took notes without direction, got insanely lucky, and then took a guess.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dishnazi 16 years ago

I agree with the general idea of your post but you have to give Mark credit for being incredibly smart. Here is why. They offered up that exemption when it was down to 4 with the idea that Craig would wait for a minute and come out with the answer so that there would be a fair quiz to get into the final show. But Mark was so quick with that word puzzle that he ruined the whole plan and got himself an exemption. Craig really screwed up there as the mole because the producers definitely didnt want to give someone a free pass into the finals.

[–] mickfly718 16 years ago

That is true, Mark proved himself to be very intelligent. Another example was the treadmill challenge, where he was solving puzzles with only the help of the real saboteur and the fake saboteur. He is a very smart guy, but I don't think he played the game nearly as well as Paul or Nicole. In the end, this game is much more than a series of word puzzles.

[–] woeiskenny 16 years ago

the mole has turned more into a game of chance than a game of logic

The game is based on many different elements. Luck is an important element, but not as much as intelligence, strategy, and of course, manipulation.

Although this season was a bit mediocre, it wasn't really any different than the other seasons, especially the celebrity versions.

In season 3, none of the players figured out who the mole was until the final quiz.

In season 4, Mark did find out who was the mole was from the start, but he kept second guessing himself because he seem to have failed to realized that the mole obviously was not going to sabotage every mission. Dennis did not figure out who the mole was, but he did succeed in manipulating Mark into think that he was the mole.

And then there was the whole Elavia thing in season 2.

Season 1 was vague to me, so yeah, I don't have anything to say about that season.

Eh it is what it is. There's a lot more to the game than finding who the mole is.

[–] evanistheman 16 years ago

mark is a horrible winner. WHen you think about it he really was just all luck until the last quiz. He got sooo many exemptions and then got saved 3 times by other people on the quizes. Nicole NEVER had an exemption excpet for the time she was stuck on the beach. I feel nicole should have won but got cheated.

SAW V October 24, 2008
The games have just begun

[–] homesrfan 16 years ago

Mark probably put more money in the pot than anyone else. In that event where he had to go on the treadmill, he stayed on for one hour and did most of the questions himself.

[–] jabell 16 years ago

I agree with homesrfan. Mark played hard on all the physical & mental challenges. He reminds me of (a much more likeable) Rob Mariano. I knew he wasn't the mole when he was on the treadmill. And I'm glad he won because he probably needs the money more than anyone else--after all he's a schoolteacher with 3 1/2 kids. I loved that he wanted his wife to be able to stay home with the children. You go, Mark!!!! I was for you all the way.

Nicole can be very proud of herself, but, as she is a doctor, she doesn't need the money like Mark does. (Paul probably does, too, as much as anyone else.)
Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

[–] liketoknowwhy 16 years ago

I understand your point of view mickfly and I couldn't agree with you more. Now I understand Paul's frustration when Mark won that exemption in the paintball game. I think he knew, or at least assumed, that Mark was still clueless as to whom the mole was. He therefore would have beat him in that quiz for the final three and seemingly won the game since Nicole scored so poorly on the final quiz.

Paul even showed frustration at the reunion when they showed all those times that Mark was almost eliminated. I felt bad for the guy b/c he was onto Craig since day one and he lost to a guy who figured it out during the final challenge. It sucks. Yeah, this game has to do with luck but it also has to do with who's smart and the best detective to figure out whom the mole is. That's why I've always liked The Mole because it wasn't like the other reality game shows - you really need a brain to play this game.

Overall this was my least favorite season since it was blatantly obvious that Craig was the mole. I remember the shock I had finding out Kathryn was the mole in Season 1 I was even shocked Bill was the mole in Season 2 along with the celebrity editions. Not to take anything away from Craig, but the producers should've picked someone else to be the mole.

[–] jabell 16 years ago

But I didn't like Paul. I found him to be a typical arrogant New Yorker. I hated his accent and his tattoos. If he had won, I'd have been very unhappy.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

[–] reallyshortpeoplerule 16 years ago

Paul should have won. I doesn't matter if you didn't like him, he played the best game. It's like season one of survivor when they all voted for Richard because he had played the best game.

[–] jabell 16 years ago

I disagree. It's like when Amanda lost Survivor even though she won more challenges than Parvati. I think Mark definitely played the hardest. He was like Rob Mariano, who won 16 challenges in Survivor: Allstars. And Mark won the one that counted most--figuring the word game so he could be the sniper.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

[–] pillow_fighter_1123 16 years ago

Mark deserved to win; not only was he gracious, but he played the hardest and added much money to the pot. Yes, I did like Paul, but did he truly add as much money to the pot as Mark did? Mark just seems like a genuinely nice guy, and I'm really happy for him.

[–] mickfly718 16 years ago

The problem with this argument is that this game isn't solely about adding as much money to the pot as possible (like the Weakest Link). It's about ensuring that you are the one that wins money, since everyone executed presumably gets nothing. Priority one should be to avoid execution, while priority two should be to increase the prize value.

Paul focused more on the investigative aspect of this game and discovered off the bat who the mole was. He ensured himself that he could score very well on the quizzes with only time working against him. He correctly assumed that the group as a whole would earn a considerable amount of money, and he succeeded in doing the best job of setting himself up as the winner.

Mark focused much more on adding money to a pot that might not end up as his. With no clue who the mole was, he meticulously took notes on every single player (not the best strategy when you never know how long you can hold onto that journal). He obviously did not set himself on the right path to be the winner, as evident by his poor quiz scores, but somehow ended up there anyways.

My main problem with Mark winning is that, in my opinion, it goes against the aspects of this show that make it remarkable. This show prides itself on the fact that it involves incredible logic, secrecy, and manipulation. Otherwise, it would just be another Survivor or Big Brother. To see the winner's game boiled down to several near-misses and a final leap of faith is very disappointing. Especially when another near-winner had the mole pegged from the very start.

[–] jabell 16 years ago

Look, I know you don't care, but I've already had one disappointment this summer when Aaron McCargo(!) won The Next Food Network Star over the much more worthy Lisa Garza & Kelsey Nixon. If Paul, whom I can't stand because of his terrible attitude, his accent, and his tattoos, had won over Mark, whom I loved, I would have been crushed.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

[–] mwmitch2 16 years ago

I agree - it doesn't seem right that Mark won when he really wasn't sure until the end. It seems like Nicole or Paul should have won. I agreed with Paul that there should not have been exemptions so late in the game. However, at least Mark was very intelligent and was very good at the challenges.

[–] mickfly718 16 years ago

I should probably also point out that Mark was in no way the worst-case winner for this season. He is a very smart guy, as he proved during the challenges. It's not like he mindlessly skated to the end (like it would have seemed if someone like Liz had won instead). He did try to figure it out and engaged in an appropriate amount of coalitions. He even handled these coalitions very well. His gameplay was in the right place.

My problem is that he got it wrong so many times. He literally bounced from contestant to contestant throughout the duration of the game and never settled on Craig until he had to decide between him and Nicole.

Paul just got it right off the bat, and even Nicole had it figured out towards the end.

I guess I would be happier with the game as a whole if there was some bonus for someone who actually figured the mole out. Maybe if they award an extra point or two if you actually choose the right player as the mole on the last question of the quiz. By weighting the last question, it decreases the chance that someone who plays the odds with each quiz will outlast someone who actually has it figured out.

[–] jabell 16 years ago

But is it wrong to be glad that the likeable guy (I couldn't stand Paul) who badly needed the money won? And to boot he's a schoolteacher and coach, shaping the minds of our young people.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)