MovieChat Forums > The Time Machine (2002) Discussion > He shouldn't have been able to go back t...

He shouldn't have been able to go back to see Emma


The time machine shouldn't have been able to go back in time to when Emma was still alive because the time machine wasn't even built yet. He builds it several years AFTER her death. We assume the universe in the movie follows a linear timeline because Alex cannot save Emma since her death was the reason for him to build it in the first place. I say "linear timeline" because the past will directly affect the future in a singular universe. Therefore, he should only be able to go back in time up to when the time machine was first built, but no further.

If Alex was capable of going back in time BEFORE the machine existed, then we assume he's skewing off into another timeline of ANOTHER universe, in which case, Emma would not be bound by a paradox, and she would be able to live.

Thoughts?

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the 1890s logic of time travel was a time-machine can travel through time like a ship through water, not only to places where other ships existed. but really the time machine itself has to become removed from the timeline of the universe in order to travel through it in that context, so by it existing at any point in the timeline it's capable of moving through that timeline.

by your logic (which i mean it's all time-travel, so yours is just as sound as mine) the time machine would only be capable of traveling within the machine's actual lifespan (from creation to first issue that impedes its function, where you could stop, fix it, and maybe keep going). but that also puts a limit on where a person could travel, they'd only be able to travel within their own lifespan, which makes for less interesting stories.

the biggest problem with Emma was that since her death inspired the time machine, simply by it existing when he went back to save her, she has to die again. or if she didn't, the time machine and Alex would have to cease to exist the moment she was safe (again less interesting for storytelling). really the thing with time travel is unless you're in a purely observational state, removed from the timeline (let's say, inside the bubble, for this particular machine) there's a good chance that the simple existence of you and your machine in the past would alter the future to the point where the second you put it in park you and the machine would cease to exist.

the idea of splitting timelines is kind of a egotistical human approach to time travel, at it's base level we think we could create a universe simply by existing, whereas it's much easier for the universe to simply blink us out of existence (we're not that important to it). whether or not time travel for humans is possible, it's probably pretty safe to say that altering the past is impossible. i dunno about traveling to the future, perhaps you could only move forward in time, it depends on the relative nature of time and space, if on a universal scale there even is a "present" to use as a benchmark, or if that's a uniquely human way of looking at things.

then again, i'm no physicist so what the hell do i know? just the fun theories of sci-fi movies. for all i know since all matter in the universe was created in the big bang, by traveling through time, you'll create a moment where the same two bits of matter (you, and wherever your matter was at the time you traveled to) exist at the same moment in the universe, and for all we know the whole damn thing might be fragile enough that you could wipe out existence with just that.

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None of it makes sense. If Alex went back in time 100 times to see Emma die in 100 different ways, wouldn't there be a point where 100 time machines existed and 100 Alex's are all trying to save Emma?

More likely he fractured (or phased through) the timeline into 100 different paths, each one slightly different from the original. He just didn't get far enough from the original path to one where Emma didn't know Alex, hence negating her death (which is largely caused by her meeting him on a dangerous night LOL).

Either way, it doesn't matter. Time travel into the past is not possible.

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Back to the Future proves you both wrong :)

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[deleted]

But then if you save Emma and go back to your own time, you'll find her married with the other you from the past?! In different timeline approach to time travel, you'll never be able to return to the future you belong in.

How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise my hands.

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[deleted]

LOL, my brain boils every time i start at these things.

So, i can't understand why the other me would vanish? As far as he knows, Emma is barely saved from death by a mysterious stranger. And then he marries her. And, 4 years later, his exact replica (me returning from saving Emma) appears out of thin air in his house as he is trying to teach his son to walk. That guy (me), stepping out of the time machine, does not belong in this timeline, he shares no memories with Emma for the last 4 years of her life, and has no way to return to his original timeline where he could say "eff it, i'll just get a cup of tea with my friends".

Just as Marty in Back to the Future when he returns to '85 and his parents are not losers any more. Yet he is from a timeline where his parents are losers, and he does not share any history with "winner" family which, in fact, should have "winner" Marty around somewhere.

The only way to fix this would be to send "the other me", or "winner Marty" back to the intervention point with the same task, and replacing them in this new, totally foreing timeline. And no one would recognize me having completely different memories with total strangers, and we'd happily get on with our lives!

I think Doc Brown was right, and the instant anything meddles with space-time continuum, the universe should kill it out of existance.

How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise my hands.

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[deleted]

Yeah i forgot winner Marty going back in time from Lone Pine Mall. But as you suggested, the timeline is very different which makes it less likely that things will play the same.

How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise my hands.

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[deleted]

for all we know the whole damn thing might be fragile enough that you could wipe out existence with just that.


Doubtful. Just it probably is just not possible.
Technically one atom is the same as any other atom. If we get down to the whole idea of the universe being just a hologram or a matrix of information it would have no real impact to say that certain bits are 1s rather than 0s. There is quite a bit of evidence to say that this is in fact the case with the universe and it's all information. Matter per se is nonexistent the way we think about it.
But again most probably going back in time is probably impossible. Traveling to the future probably is.

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The time machine shouldn't have been able to go back in time to when Emma was still alive because the time machine wasn't even built yet.

Well duh, that's kind of the point! Is this the only time travel movie you have ever seen?

Like the person above says:
"Back to the Future" proves you wrong.

Don't tell me you have not seen that! Did you have the same argument about BTTF?



"Champagne for my real friends, and real pain for my sham friends..."

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[deleted]

He could have found a way to save her, but if she was only missing would he have still built the time machine. He kidnaps her bringing her into the future creating the paradox loop of building the time machine to save her thus he still builds the time machine to take her with him. Or by a long stretch he saves enough DNA to clone her in the future travels further kidnaps her clone and brings her clone to the past to kill and create a swap. Thus another loop. However, he still never finds the answer until a far too distant future to easily return from. From the end I think he builds a new machine and travels into the future to be sure that the future has more promise than his past, perhaps he becomes Dr. Who or something. lol

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this is underrated comment. all this makes sense somehow. very clever

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That's only a theory. In his novel Timescape, Gregory Benford theorizes tachyons allow time travel into the past before the creation of a time machine because time is more akin to a landscape than to a river.

Personally I've never bought the idea that a time machine, if possible to construct, would be limited only to being able to travel to the point of its origin.
Requiescat in pace, Krystle Papile. I'll always miss you.

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The only thing time travel is determined by is whether you change the past, not whether something from the future can exist before it was made.
In other words, Causality.

If Alex had changed events so that Emma lived, the version of himself that went back in time to change those events would never have existed.
Certain events must then be unable to be changed.
At this point it would have to create multiple universes to allow for this loophole, or time itself may break. We have no idea what a paradox would actually do.


--

"I wasn't paying attention, that makes it a plot-hole!"
-The Average IMDB Thread

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Yeah this is the grandfather paradox. I.e. you cannot kill your grandfather or father however much you try.
They say that something would stop you from doing so. Like say you try to shoot your grandfather and the gun would lock or something else would happen that would prevent you from doing that.
This is of course very unconvincing. In my view, it is much more convincing that it is just impossible to travel to the past.

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There are lots of different theories of time travel, how it works, it's limitations and how paradoxes are resolved. Here paradoxes are apparently resolved by something that stops the action that would create a paradox, in essence a kind of "magic" or super intelligent force would have to intervene (sending the horse leading to emma's death). I find this theory rather implausible but it does fit nicely with the story in a poetic way.

What you are talking about is the theory / rules for primer.

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It is only a movie. So, the time machine can do whatever the writer(s) say it can do.

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yeah i find it funny people try to desect it like it is some sort of documentary.

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This isn't Primer. The Time Machine doesn't have to be in existence for him to travel back in time. By the rules exposited in The Time Machine,.. he could visit the time of the dinosaurs.

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