MovieChat Forums > Avalon (2001) Discussion > My Theory (possible spoilers)

My Theory (possible spoilers)

posted 13 years ago by YouWishYouFeltBetter
9 replies | jump to latest

There are aspects of each "world" that provide strong evidence that they aren't reality.

Sepia world (what we are meant to assume is real life near the start of the film): People are motionless and a dog disappears. I suppose some sort of mental illness could explain a "disappearing" dog but why are there people who seem to be frozen.

Game world: People pixelate and disappear when they are killed. Ash is shown logging in and logging out of the virtual reality by putting on some sort of a helmet.

Class real world: Murphy pixelates and disappears when he is killed.

I would say that the sepia and class real worlds are different versions of the same world as Ash exists in both of them after removing the helmet and seemingly disconnecting from the game. I can only assume that if you exist in a place before you put a virtual reality helmet on, then once you remove that helmet you are back in the same place. Since this place is not reality it is just programming that makes "class real" more colorful and vibrant but it is still the same non reality world as the sepia world. Also Ash sees her dog in the sepia world and then it disappears. The next time she sees it is in the class real world, albeit in a different form. Its just another example that the two are the same world and programming has changed her dog from her pet to a poster/dog riding in a strangers car. A third example is that Ash sees Murphy as a vegetable in the sepia world and then as a seemingly healthy man in the class real world.

Since the rule in this movie for determining if a world is reality seems to be watching someone die and seeing if they disappear then IMO we don't ever see reality since in both the game world and the sepia/class real world people disappear when they are killed.

[–] nihilistic-life 13 years ago

In Class Real, it could be that Ash sees Murphy pixelate when he dies. It's what she sees. Meaning she's so used to videogames, and doesn't want to believe that Murphy actually died, so she fools herself into thinking that Murphy pixelated. However I can't explain the ghost girl in Class Real at the end. However, in the sepia world there were broken statues. In Class Real when Ash is facing the ghost girl, there are the same statues, but this time they are in perfect condition. This could be a metaphor that Class Real is whole (real life).
Very interesting movie indeed.

[–] [email protected] 13 years ago

This could be a metaphor that Class Real is whole (real life).

Or our reality is a level in their game and we're all NPCs.

[–] sub_mish 11 years ago

Class Read isn't real. We know it's part of the game because she's given instructions by the Bishop and she meets a man who is a vegetable in the real world, because he is Unreturned from the game world. After she shoots him, he pixelates, and then all the NPCs dissappear and are replaced by the ghost girl.

The ghost girl looks her in the eye and smiles at her before she is advanced to yet another level in the game - Avalon!

WARNING DO NOT click on "synopsis". It INSTANTLY RUINS ANY FILM YOU HAVE NOT SEEN

[–] JaneTheeIgnorantSchlutt 11 years ago

I think she is an artificially intelligent game agent in a virtual reality game. She doesn't exist in the 'class real' level outside of the game. She dreams of becoming real but doesn't know how to. She SEEMS to go to class real but the man then tricks her into shooting him. Rather than dying (as he would in 'class real') he just disappears. He had somehow guessed that it wasn't real and demonstrated it to her in the only way she would believe. That's why his gun was not loaded. He was ready to return and he wasn't going to really die anyway. After that she goes into the church to meet the little girl who smiles at her enigmatically.
Remember her earlier talk about how to enter 'class real'. You had to complete certain levels and actions and then the girl would appear to lead her to class real. That is how the movie ends, she is about to become real at last.

[–] emvan 9 years ago

I think you're got almost all of it here. She's definitely a conscious AI within a VR. And at movie's end, she is about to become real. The one thing I differ with is that "Class Real" is just another VR level; the actual reality she's about to be promoted to is some unimaginable far-future one. See my posts "The Last and Best Theory."

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

[–] eric-869 12 years ago

The movie is more like Inception that it is The Matrix, which people seem to like to compare it to. You're close, but ultimately I think Avalon describes multiple "layers" the way Inception does.

The game Avalon is the deepest layer we see in the movie. The sepia world that Ash and Stunner live in is one level higher, but in a sense it is still a game. The people in the sepia world act as NPCs, or what is known as Non Player Characters in gaming terminology. This is evident when she rides the trolley and repeatedly observes the zombies standing expressionless, when she goes to the hospital the doctors stand motionless or go through rote motions etc. The people we see act in a very predictable, non-interactive way, save for a few "players" like Stunner or Bishop.

When people like you and I play a video game in real life, we control a character that exists only in the realm of that game, and their identity/stats/ability is defined by what happens in the game. That is the world of Avalon to Ash. But what this movie seems to imply is that there is ANOTHER level beyond that, and that Ash herself is a character in the sepia world game, being controlled by a player in a world above her, Class Real. Then the real mind *beep* is when she kills Murphy only to see his body whirl away indicating that Class Real is simply another game level.

The questions that bring up are the same that the movie Inception brings up. Are we in a dream/game in which we can wake up from, or advance to? If we are simply the characters in a video game being controlled by a person manning the keyboard and mouse, how would we know it? We would only know ourselves within the context of the game.

[–] ixtrm-sol 12 years ago

yeah a mmorpg inception is the vibe i got from the movie too. ash is being recruited as a gm in the alpha/beta version avalon 2 (200% more real!) because they needed some one who doesn't suffer mental breakdown/confusions from crossing different level of reality, murphy was stuck in class real either by choice or was so thoroughly convinced that it's the actual flesh and blood reality. from bishop's dialogues i guess the game reality level just goes on indefinitely, each time getting more 'real'. i think it'd be more interesting if class real is preparation for people stuck in the virtual reality to come out the pod to manage the virtual worlds and to face actual flesh reality the majority of the population are stored inside virtual games for whatever reason, but oshii left the ending open ended so there's no answer whether there's actual escape from avalon.

if you liked virtual/real themed sci fi, the anime zegapain dealt with it in pretty interesting way, with mechas too.

[–] flyingjy 11 years ago

In the early parts of the movie, Ash mentions something about how there's "something more".

In games the point is to advance levels until you "win" and feel fulfilled by finding the thing you were searching for.

To me, she was advancing levels in the game throughout the movie. Yes, the sepia-colored reality that appears was the "real world" might also have been just a level in the game she came back to..
She wanted to advance out of that.. she didn't feel it to be a real life, remember?
Note: in this sepia colored world, and she also saw a "ghost" in the hallway of the hospital, and her dog vanished out of the blue.. so to me those were signs that it was just another "unreal" game level.

The next level she advanced to is the Level Real. While this looked and felt like the "real world", this again was just the next game level. So we know how she kills Murhpy.

At the end, it doesn't spell it out if she kills the "ghost" or not, but based on the text "Welcome to Avalon" we assume she did.

She won, and advanced to the reality she was searching for. Personally I believe "Avalon" was meant as the "real-world", or a place with more of the "reality" she was looking for (And not just another, higher "game level").

[–] cobes11 11 years ago

I do not think that it was that complex. I think it was pretty basic: sepia was the real world, the game world was the game world, and Class Real was also a level in the game. I believe that the point of this movie can be linked to two key words in the prologue, "disillusioned" and unreturneds becoming "trapped". The sepia world was ugly, boring, and gross. I was depressed just watching them live in it. Hardcore gamers like Murphy and Ash became disillusioned with their gaming world as well which allowed them into Class Real, which is also part of a game. The point is that Murphy was not "trapped" in Class Real but rather chose to stay there because it was much more beautiful and vivid than the real world. Still no idea why the ghost smiled at the end.

I also believe that the dog did not randomly disappear. It represented the only thing she really cared about in the real world, the last sting keeping her to it. Bishop removing the dog from her life left her with zero reason to return from Class Real.