Matrix??


Is it just me or does did movie reminded anyone else of THe Matrix?

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Some aspects, like the hint of a virtual world within the real world.

Generally it was quite different though.

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It put me more in mind of eXistenZ. A favorite of mine directed by Cronenberg that was released the same year as The Matrix.

Talking? During Horsehead bookends?

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Same here. This movie reminded me more of eXistenZ or the .hack game series more than The Matrix. The only reason people compare everything to The Matrix is because it's popular and they are unaware that any other film can be more compelling.

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Well the Matrix did take elements from Ghost in the Shell, another Oshii film. I've always felt Avalon was Oshii's response to the Matrix... it's cyberpunk, but with less emphasis on the cyber and more on retrofuturism. It's also one of the few live action movies that moves like an anime, which the Matrix was also attempting to do. Try Casshern for a similar live action anime.


------END TRANSMISSION------

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Yeah, it's really funny how all the kids say everything is ripping the matrix off while the matrix is the biggest rip off in movie history. There's basically nothing original in that film. The style is John Woo + Anime. The philosophy is Christianity + cheap comic boon concepts that were around for ages. The look, trench coat + sunglasses has been around since the 30's and is the cheapest trick to make a character look cool. The machine vs. humanity is the oldest sci-fi concept in the book, the reality not being reality has been around since before 19th century and was done in movies way before the matrix. The action is Hong Kong all the way. Not even bullet time is original in its entirety. To top it off, the matrix is basically a rip off from Dark City almost frame by frame in terms of camera angles and framing and sets, not to mention it has the same concept (the rest is from The 13th floor which is based on a very old book).
The matrix is crap. I wish people would stop saying everything is a matrix knock off.
The Matrix IS the rip off.

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While most of your points are valid, The Matrix is one of the best movies ever made, because it takes the best of things and wraps them into a really well made movie with a big budget, also just because it borrows from anime doesn't mean it's not original, no movie was able to turn anime into a real film quite like this before.

Anyway the op's point was this rips from the matrix, and it does, it came after and lots of stuff is lifted straight from the matrix. Hell even the title sequence is from the matrix but orange instead of green.

Anti-fanboys are worse than fanboys.

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Oshii san, the director of the movie also makes the anime movies "ghost in the shell" before Avalon, the wachowsky brothers said the take a lot of anime and manga for the matrix trilogy (from the beggining it was imagined as a trilogy, to compete with starwars, but joel silver decided to not continue with it, until the dvd sales tell him the contrary, but to take no risk he decide to make the other 2 movies at once, for budget, thats why reloaded and revolution has no real bullet time camera effect, they have to do it with CGI because it was cheaper than paying for all the cameras to make the effect, anyway) and in "ghost in the shell" all the people connects from the back of their neck to the net.
ITs not copied, it was inspired, a lot of people, angry to the matrix fans who can't stop calling a lot of movies rip offs of the matrix, even movies before the matrix, like Blade or lost in space, said that the matrix its a rip off of so many movies, but the wachowsky said they wanna make a real anime movie, the slow motion camera works as those recycle frames from old anime shows, like Tsubasa Osora jumping to kick the ball in the air.
Sooo, this movie and many others inspired the wachowsky to make the matrix, and I believe they make a great script of "V". thanks for reading

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my lord, an explanation worth reading...cheers link_m, much appreciated.

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Oshii sensei has made lots of moviess, most of which were long before the matrix,
but Avalon was almost definitely made in response to it
there are scenes in the matrix which are almost identical to scenes in ghost in the shell (agent smith chasing neo through the market matches the scene with kusanagi and the man with the camo coat)
but there has to be a line drawn between inspired by and unable to think of an original idea and that's where the matrix fell down
it's a rehash of a lot of older works and often took the imagery without understanding what was behind it (the orgy in the second film matched the seitch orgy in the novel of dune) avalon on the other hand had more to do with themes Oshii-sensei had originally explored in films like Ghost in the shell, which is very different from the manga, and Jin Roh
I can point out a lot of other "similarities" from well known and less well known works, i think the only one that they weren't inspired by was Star Wars and that's probably just because George Lucas sues

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If you listen to the commentary track on "Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence" it states that (some of) the animators were told to watch The Matrix in order to get a feel for the look and style they wanted on Innocence. Everything influences everything else.

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I don't know if somebody has made the connection between Avalon and the cyberpunk book "Labyrinth of Reflections" from the russian science fiction writer Sergey Lukyanenko. Everything is very similar, even the "death" thing in Avalon, where your character becomes to millions of broken glass mossiac or something, freezes for a second or two and dissapears. The "divers" in the book exit in the same way from the illusion city as the author discribes it. I've read it myself. They were even filming "Labyrinth of Reflections" under the name "Depth"/"Glubina" but I don't know what happened. It seems the data about this movie in IMDB has been deleted??? I'm sure I've read about the filming here. The search doesn't show anything.

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playing it Bogart.

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with one crucial difference - the matrix is a piece of hollywood *beep* it started well but swiftly became a terrible kill-the-baddies moralfest. This is more nuanced and subtle, more European in its noir social comment sensibility and Japanese with the high tech, bizzare / crap ending. It's like comparing a hamburger with a three course meal.

Sits in corner counting inconsistencies and Spoiling It For Everyone

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Avalon did remind me of several movies. Not as in Avalon ripped off stuff!!, but as in hints, nods and / or influences. First, obviously, Ghost in the Shell. The heroines even look alike - not to mention that they behave alike. At one point in the beginning, Ash climbs over a tank, and I was for one second actually expecting her to try to pull open the lid . Not to mention the fortress thing near the end (the way it appears, almost out of thin air, the way Ash is dodging bullets while running on the side, very similar to the Major's fight with that wicked tank in the end of GitS).

Then, there was Matrix, of course - especially because of the Stunner character, who felt a lot like Cypher (they almost had the same facial expressions, plus great appetite in both cases). Also, because of the reality stinks, game-reality is much better, we choose our own reality hence let's stay in the game argument from Murphy in the end (reminder again of Cypher's dialogue with the agent).

And one more nice touch - Besson's Nikita. In the class real, Ash opens a window to discover a wall, then she finds a gun with only one clip in a rather fancy box, and to top it all, she is supposed to kill one guy while wearing a fancy feminine outfit in an elegant environment (whereby so far she was only dressed in manly clothes and had a rough existence). All reminders of Nikita's first mission . Add to this her situation in class real (dangerous new mission with only one way out - a kill), and her behaviour outside in the "modern" world. Combined with a Pygmalion comment from another thread, I guess that one could also see the woman Nikita herself as a statue brought to life and loved by her sculptor (Bob, of course)...
After more thinking - actually Ash's whole pre-class real life looked a lot like Nikita's training in that school for special operatives.

Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things, and they are not to be tempered with!

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Feels a bit like a reverse Matrix, with people trying to get to a "better" VR world to escape their depressing real world.

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I like the guy claiming it stole the opening credits from the Matrix, which were stolen from GITS. Oy. It's clearly Oshii's response to the Matrix, questioning reality instead of building a comic book Cyber Jesus Christ Superman.

If anyone needs me I'll be in the lab.

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Is it just me or am I the only one whose noticed a genre trope?

*sigh* No. You aren't the only one. That you thought you might be, is laughable.

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