MovieChat Forums > Spy Game (2001) Discussion > Very big hole in movie

Very big hole in movie

posted 14 years ago by ebhaugen02
52 replies | jump to latest

Ok before I point this out I want to say that I love this movie. Very very well done.....i like all the sneaking around Redford does to rescue Bishop. Ok now on to my main problem with this movie:

Nathan Muir is forced to spend $282,000, his life savings, for the power outage in the grid that the prison is located in. Ok, Nathan Muir, a mid-level CIA Operative, at his retirement, only has a life savings of $282,000? Seriously? The position he is in, and as long as he has worked for the CIA, he should be making $282,000/yr by that point and his life savings (and we dont talk about his pension - being a government job) should easily be over 1 Million.

[–] smhni 14 years ago

I was reviewing the movie for the 4-5th time today and think about it too...

but then again, check out this dialogue late in the movie:

(Harry Duncan tells Muir (when negotiating with the Chinese Deng):

"It's not like it(=282k $) was your money."

what does it suppose to mean? ...hmmm, so maybe it was some money he had kept away for such a situation.

[–] nickmorgan19457 14 years ago

Duncan thought the plan was something for the government, not a personal project of Muir's. That was the joke.

[–] eatontj 14 years ago

Although I'm sure $282,000 was supposed to be considered a large portion of Muir's savings, I think it's safe to assume that Muir was bluffing to the CIA in the room with him about it being "all" of his life savings.

I think we are to assume it was the amount of money he was going to spend on a house in the Bahamas... but I think it's safe to assume he had more money than that... otherwise he really couldn't be retiring, even with his CIA retirement benefits.

I think he basically traded his "dream house" for Bishop's life.

[–] rick03 14 years ago

I agree that he would have more than 282k saved but:

1) He liquidated all of his assets and therefore took great losses.

2) I have no way of knowing but I would almost guarantee that a mid-level CIA agent would not be making 282k a year as you said.

3) I am sure he has more money elsewhere. Maybe he couldnt liquidate it. Maybe it was in a place that he couldnt get at it because it would be too easily traced.

[–] praxistens 13 years ago

>>> I am sure he has more money elsewhere. Maybe he couldnt liquidate it. <<<

I feel silly, since I've got in on this thread w/ an interpretive 2-cents' worth. In the movie, a guy wearing glasses approaches Harker w/ a slip of paper & says, "Muir consolidated his overseas assets." The $282K were overseas assets; not everything. We don't know whether he had more money elsewhere, but all that's liquidated are overseas assets.

[–] schumithecat 14 years ago

the movie is set in 1990. $282k would probably be 2-3x that in today's money. the government doesn't pay that well but you get a pension.

[–] ari_burd 14 years ago

Agreed. That's certainly not a plot hole. Many folks retire with far less $$$ than that thanks to a government pension. They then go and get a new job while they collect on their pension.

If there's a plot hole, to me it's the fact that no one noticed Muir stayed at the CIA all night during his last day of employment. Doesn't this send up red flags?

[–] rick03 14 years ago

I remember from "the recruit" someone saying that CIA security is all about monitoring who comes in and what comes out. Its assumed that once you are there that you are supposed to be there so less security is then needed.

Now I dont know if any of that is true, but it sounds pretty good to me. I remember at the beginning of the movie someone tells Muir to make sure to turn in his stuff when he checks out. Im sure that info came up when they swiped his card on the way in and they wont remember something innocuous like that until he checks out with his card again. Im pretty sure they wouldnt search the building for him.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] nitejrny282 13 years ago

Exactly! $282,000 in 1990 would be somewhere between $470,000 to $706,000 in 2010, depending on what index you use. Check the link below...

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/result.php?use%5B%5D=DOLLAR&use%5B%5D=GDPDEFLATION&use%5B%5D=VCB&use%5B%5D=UNSKILLED&use%5B%5D=MANCOMP&use%5B%5D=NOMGDPCP&use%5B%5D=NOMINALGDP&year_source=1990&amount=282000&year_result=2010

[–] emuir-1 14 years ago

The money was the amount he had secreted away for a rainy day and never touched since, as he instructed bishop to do when he first recruited him.

[–] praxistens 14 years ago

Yes: so you can retire "someplace warm."

The hesitation with which Muir considers parting with that life savings @first tells me there ain't a whole lot left after that. (People here that think Muir would have more or that CIA case offs. make $280K live in the Real Housewives-open orifice, Republocrat fantasyland.) However, there's something said by someone that left me to think that Harry Duncan was going slip that money away from Tran: remember, Muir's told that Duncan's disappeared with his money.
51depasser

[–] thenamlessjon 14 years ago

Trust me I know this from people I've met at the Agency you don't get paid good unless you're senior operations or if you're head of something. He was only mid level meaning he probably didn't get paid anywhere near 200,000$ a year.

I don't know lol what kind of money you people think they make but trust me they don't get paid much at all!!!!

The Porsche would be kind of believable though, but anyone who is in the espionage game would never drive something that is essentially a death trap.

[–] clubsamwich 14 years ago

I agree. What I've read on the CIA I understand a case officer doesn't make the big bucks and Muir wasn't portrayed as a character who chased promotions and pay rises. As Troy Folger says "He's a man who got the job done", which strikes me as someone who is result focused and not reward focused.

[–] tjh3123 14 years ago

As someone mentioned upthread, I believe that the point was that Muir traded his life's savings for Bishop's life.

In terms of the dollar amount, regardless of what his salary was over the course of his career, he could've amassed the $282K through savvy investing, so to me that is not an issue.

What was skimpy to me was that the aggregate of his accounts at the time he requested liquidation just so happened to equal the dollar amount on the property brochure. At the very least, in most cases, there are extras above and beyond the advertised price. That combined with the fluctuation of the portfolio value on a given day makes it very hard to believe those two figures would equal.

In addition, that left him nothing else for furnishing, daily living, etc... But then again, he is a genius spy, so I am going with the logic that he had funds hidden elsewhere under the radar.

Overall to me this is a minor issue in the grand scheme of what was a fantastic, underrated spy thriller.

[–] paul_cowsill 9 years ago

You're talking about a guy who forged the signature of the director of the CIA. So, he could've forged the brochure as well.

I'm sorry the Coen brothers don't direct the porn I watch. They're hard to get ahold of, okay?

[–] thenamlessjon 14 years ago

Plus you people need to keep in mind he lives in probably the Virginia/DC area...its like 22% taxes in DC...housing is very expensive. when you add in all the costs it adds up.

but you never know he might have other accounts elsewhere. but I doubt it.

[–] bear022013-588-696101 14 years ago

IT IS CALLED DIVORCE PAL,TRY IT SOMETIME! I MADE A HELL OF ALOT MORE THAN ANY CIA MAN AND LOST OVER A MILLION-NOT COUNTING LEGAL FEES-WAKE UP?

[–] James_Camacho 8 years ago

Muir was only married once -- the other wives were fake. Pay attention next time.

[–] Tawkingmime 14 years ago

Im pretty sure he had way more saved up. One thing I noticed at the point where he made the deal was that when the camera showed the paper which contained his financial information, there was no two shown. it was "hundred and eighty two dollars" so what preceded the hundred is unknown..