MovieChat Forums > Frailty (2002) Discussion > Is YOUNG Fenton a demon?

Is YOUNG Fenton a demon?

posted 5 years ago by Starduster (268)
16 replies | jump to latest

PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE. THIS IS A DISCUSSION WITH MANY SPOILERS. SEE THE MOVIE Then feel free to participate.

In a previous post I have argued that in MY interpretation YOUNG Fenton is not a demon.
I understand that the writing seems to dictate differently. What I am going to do is present some compelling reasons that might flip the scenario of the movie to an opposite side.

There are many who see this as DAD is Crazy and suffering delusions. At the end there are things that would lead us to the contrary. But there are still other interpretations to consider,

Fenton as a boy is NOT a demon. He has NO history of ANY sort of behavior that would even remotely make us think that. He loved his younger brother and even contributed substantially to hid car when Dad was at work and otherwise.
Fenton was horrified by Dad's actions and cried when these people (Demons) were murdered. He WASN'T a killer. Deleted scenes on the DVD actually showed Fenton reading the Bible and trying to convince Dad that God would not want them to Kill people.
Dads argument of course, was that these were Demons, not people. Fenton was not convinced. Dad also admitted that he was not all that religious and it was Mom who was religious.
The counter argument was that Fenton couldn't see the Demons because He himself was a demon
HOWEVER, nobody else (regular people) could not see the demons either. Not because they were demons, but because they didn't have the special power to do so. So he could have been just an ordinary kid.
Dad OTOH supposedly had special powers (from God). The claim was that he had seen an "Angel" who gave him the the orders and pointed him to the "tools" and eventually the names of the "Demons"
In the Bible Christ said:
"23 Then if any one says to you, ‘Lo, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, .............. Matthew 24:23-26. Check it out for complete scripture.
The point is that Christ warned of false prophets some with powers to deceive.
So who is to say that Dad was not under the spell of a false Prophet.
Fenton, although he had religious convictions, turned away from "Dads God" because he didn't want to be like Dad had become.
I cant say for certain why he didn't pray for answers from what HE believed God to be, but he did see what this so called religion was doing. It was DESTROYING the family and the love they had for one another.
IF Fenton was a demon, why didn't Dad get any sort of "bad vibes" or visions when he touched his son?
It was also claimed that Fenton became a demon once he killed his father. Maybe! What Fenton saw was an end to the killings. An end to being asked to become a killer himself. An end to being locked in Cellars for a week for disobedience. The question remains, obedience to who or what. WHAT was the TRUE source of everything that had destroyed them as a family?
From that point we jump to the adult Fenton and Adam.
Adam, claiming to be Fenton, telling this wild story to an FBI agent. He says that he knows who the "GODS HAND" killer is. Fenton wasn't the "Gods Hand" killer, Adam and the late father were the ones picked by God. (supposedly). HOW did the case become known as the "Gods Hand" case anyway?
Now for the "final act". YES, we know that Adult Adam was a sheriff masquerading as Fenton. Yes we know that the FBI agent was declared a demon because he had killed his mother. Adam could not be seen on and FBI tapes and could not be recognized by the FBI agent.
False prophets demons and other unGodly entities can also also have powers to do strange things. So WHO REALLY was the source of all of this?
One can say God, I can argue that it was something false and UNGodly.
Fenton may well have been an innocent victim here. Maybe he turned bad later in life. We never actually saw him murder (other than Dad) and we didn't see any of HIS victims for certain.
These are just a few thoughts of an opposing viewpoint. Maybe I missed something. Its open for discussion. Keep in mind that this is all based on a supernatural premise anyway.

[–] FentonMeiks (1240) 5 years ago

>HOW did the case become known as the "Gods Hands" case anyway?
Fenton left a note with the first mutilated body saying "God's Hand had taken him and then only notes would be found from then on, not bodies". the other bodies were found in his basement. There were 6 victims shown by newspaper clippings in the opening credits and a note (very similar to Dad's handwritten demon list) of victim names in Fenton's room at the end. though the hand written name of 6th victim appears to say "Donna Linsky" when a newspaper clipping right next to it says no. 6 Donna Landry

if we believe Dad, he was told that the end of the world is approaching and they are part of God's Chosen "good" humans to "destroy demons" and dad is told "the Devil released demons for the final battle" why is it that Dad is told about whats happening? but, the "demons" don't seem to know whats happening.

if the devil selected Fenton and FBI agent Doyle (to unwittingly protect Fenton?) as demons why isnt Agent Doyle aware of it. it doesnt seem like God is playing the game fairly. unless, that trickster devil conned Dad and Adam into believing they were destroying demons when really they really killing "good humans". the ends music suggested to me an ominous vibe of a dark ending. perhaps it was just that God's Will wasnt a joyous occasion. Praise God.

i dont think the movie is intended that open ended though. i understand your theory and its a tragic story for Fenton. He's the one we support and trust through the film for his reasonableness and empathy. the sane one who descends into madness and fulfills his lamentable prophecy.

>IF Fenton was a demon, why didn't Dad get any sort of "bad vibes" or visions when he touched his >son?
i think your right that Fenton wasnt "evil" quite yet and that was Dad's hope. that God would forgive Fenton for the sins not yet commited and change his destiny before Fenton became truly evil. but, it seems God wanted Fenton to be a demon to test the faith of the father

[–] screenwriter (111) 5 years ago

Oh, and it was known as the "God's Hands" case because Fenton the demon was trying to lure Adam into a showdown by leaving the notes. "God's Hands" applied only to the human victims killed - not the demons that were destroyed. No one seemed to be looking for those "people".

[–] screenwriter (111) 5 years ago

Yes, Fenton was a boy demon who did later on become a serial murderer. Watch it again and pay attention to Fenton - everything he says and does (especially facial expressions) is congruent with a demon wanting a demon killer stopped. As directed, Fenton couldn't be killed until he appeared on the list.

Doyle's quasi "confession" to killing his mother and that Adam knew it even before he touched Doyle shows Adam was right - and by extrapolation, his dad had been right too. Adam even tells Doyle that their dad didn't want to believe it about Fenton.

You have to remember the story is not being told by Fenton but by Adam - who is trying to make demon boy Fenton sympathetic turned murderer to lure demon Doyle into his trap. That adds a hitch to the scene were the father tells Fenton he is afraid of him - Adam wouldn't have been privy to that conversation to be able to relay it.

And as for that scene - the father asking Fenton if he scares him? When Fenton says yes the father says the irony is that he is scared of Fenton. He also said the angel had told him that "you are a demon" but he didn't want to believe it. He knew he still couldn't kill Fenton until he was on the list [that would be murder] and was going to have to survive living with Fenton until he does appear on it. He didn't survive.

As he was dying the father could have easily told Adam to kill Fenton but only told him to kill the demon instead. He may have said someday you will have to destroy Fenton too.

My take on it anyway.

[–] phifty2 (116) a year ago

I love this movie too but I really wanted to comment to say this is one of the most thought out, polite thread discussions I've ever seen. If only most other people acted like you fellas the internet would be a much better and smarter place.

[–] scannerdarkly (1274) 3 years ago

Theres some good responses on this question all around!

I came to this message board to post something similar in that Fenton was a demon while still young as well.

My added visual and story clues to support this "Young Fenton Demon Theory" are as follows...

When Fenton is placed in the hole, he says God visits him and told him his destiny he will fulfill. You could argue he lied to get out of the hole, but what if he was telling the truth? He didnt say what destiny either, perhaps he finally realized he was a demon.

He kills his Dad, and throughout the movie he kept telling his dad "You are killing people not destroying demons". He tries to save the obvious bad guy demon before Adam carries out his Dads mission and axes him. When Fenton and Adam are burying both the bodies Fenton makes a statement that goes against what he had been saying the entire movie, he tells Adam "Promise me, when you destroy me, that you will bury me here in this rose garden". Why would Fenton use that phrase instead of "..when you kill me"..Maybe Fenton understood the distinction since he had the previous revelation by God in the hole that he was a Demon?

He ends up hurting and killing people for years as an adult, which goes against his character the entire first part of the movie when he kept trying to stop his dad from killing people? A kid with that much conviction of character trying to stop his OWN FATHER from serial killing people, is not going to become a serial killer themself.

[–] scannerdarkly (1274) 3 years ago

Another part I noticed this time, is that every Demon encountered by the father reacts in a similar fashion.

When the father approached the first victim, the lady in blue. He walked up to her doorstep, and she walks out before he can knock and they are both startled. The lady looks frightened at first by his presence, but when it shows her face again she has this look on her face and in her eyes that suggest shes not really afraid of him but more like shes agitated with evil intention.

When the father places his hand on every victim, he has a reaction to it and later we see the visions that he saw. But the victims have a similar reaction! Look closely how the victims seem to react to his touch as well, as if they are receiving their own visions showing them the wrongs they did in their life to show them why they are in this position now! Even the FBI Agent Doyle had a reaction to Adams touch at the end of the film!

The gloves did serve a purpose, because without the gloves they would react and have visions before he could get them in the van! Notice several times in the movie, adult Adam (pretending to be Fenton) found ways to avoid the FBI Agent Doyle from touching him. When Doyle enters his office he goes to shake Adams hand but Adam hands him the picture of his mom instead and questions the photo. When Doyle cuffs Adam he tossed him the cuffs (no touch!) and then when Doyle goes to place his hand on Adams head to help him enter the backseat of the vehicle, Adam quickly moves his head away and says "I got it" and sits down quickly.

These are some things I picked up on this time I watched the film : )

[–] FentonMeiks (1240) 2 years ago

of course, everything is up to interpretation since the movie is so vague (in the right places), plus it has an unreliable narrator. the movie is kinda like the usual suspects with religious overtones.

if we believe everything shown, then i feel like being in the hole is what drove Fenton insane/evil. his soul became as dark as the pit in that moment. was it a visit from God, Satan, or just insanity? idk. but, it seems to me that Dad accidentally did the worst thing here, in is futility, Dad actually awoken the demon inside of Fenton in his attempt to save him.

Fenton helps capture a demon before the pit. he diverts the attention of the old man by acting as if his dog was under a car. i think this is the lone moment where he helps dad other than digging pit/graves. after the pit, he "alerts" a demon of dad's attack by knocking something off the wall.

was the demon in Fenton lying in wait when he was younger? could the demon have been excised before Fenton grew up to be evil? up to what you believe. Praise God.

[–] scannerdarkly (1274) 2 years ago

Him being in the hole could have been the event that triggered the darkness within him, that makes sense. Gods message to the Dad of "Fenton is a demon and must be destroyed", that we learn from narration in the course of the film, has some interesting outcomes. The Dad hears the message and sees his son Fenton doesnt believe or have the visions like him and Adam. So he sets out to teach and help Fenton become a believer BUT ends up creating the Fenton Demon in the process! But if thats true, God telling him that his son is a demon is what lead to Fenton becoming one in the first place. What if God never said anything? Maybe Fenton wouldnt become a demon, but he still wouldve got his dead killed or captured by police. But then again there is free will, God gave the Dad a chance to save himself and the mission by carrying out Gods will but the Dad couldnt do it and "God didnt take pity on my father like he did Abraham".

Excorcising demons is something I never considered for this movie, but its stated that the end of the world has already begun and demons and angels walk the earth now. So by the Dads talk with his sons, these people ARE demons, not merely possessed by demons. Question is, do they know they are demons from birth or are they "called" one day and realize they are demons? A detail in the beginning of the film is young Adam is so joyous to sing a christian church song, and wants young Fenton to sing with him and Fenton is reluctant to do so but only sings the small part of the song for Adam. This is normal, but when watching the movie with the viewpoint of *Fenton was always a demon* it adds something to the movie. I also picked up this time that the Dad says there are "people like us" that fight demons implying that there are more families and people out there who are doing missions like how the Dad and Adam are. It could account for why Adam has a pregnant wife that is a believer. Maybe they met eachother because they had similar missions?

[–] FentonMeiks (1240) 2 years ago

i agree with a lot....even though Dad says several times "we're not killing humans, we're destroying demons" it's a tough pill to swallow with us knowing Fenton, i still feel there is a trigger/moment that the evil "awakens"/becomes unforgivable. a demon committing murder of an innocent human seems to get you on a hunter's list. why not just be on the list before an unforgivable sin if there is no possibility of redemption?

perhaps poor Fenton is screwed if he's not "human" at all. it's tough for us to believe that with his empathy and rationality in the movie. i'm also stuck with him helping Dad catch a demon. if he was an entirely irredeemable demon how did he not warn the old man, make a scene, or screw up the capture. it gives me hope of Fenton's redemption/excising... could God's Grace forgive and bring him to the Light? i would certainly think so... and so did Dad.

but, can fallen angels be forgiven? unfortunately....no. so, sayeth the bible.
https://carm.org/about-angels/can-fallen-angels-repent-and-be-forgiven/
if Fenton is entirely a demon or fallen angel and Jesus didn't die for his sins then there is no forgiveness and after the pit experience "he was ready to fulfill his destiny".

just throwing stuff out there. obviously i love the movie with my username :)

[–] scannerdarkly (1274) 2 years ago

You write a lot to think about!

What if the message from God is "One day you will have to destroy Fenton"? And the Dad tried his hardest to prove God wrong that his son will not become the monster only to end up fulfilling it. BUT Adam himself said "I had to wait until Fenton was added to my list" so even then Fenton may have had a chance?

It makes sense that angels cannot repent in that they knew God and lived with him, without any doubt. So if they knew him and still decided to rebel then thats it!

[–] FentonMeiks (1240) 2 years ago

you pulled a lot out of me and gave me plenty to think about also. thank you.
dude i deleted paragraphs saying this reply is way too long. lol.

first, yes, thats exactly my dad/fenton take right there.

i think you changed my mind on Fenton. i used to think Fenton could be forgiven by God. now i just dont think he would, im thinking Fenton even living a free will "good" life might not get himself on a hunter's list. but in his death he would still ultimately be damned, after our conversation.

theres a deleted scene of Fenton reading the Old Testament and saying something like "reading this gives more credence to dad's story."
im thinking now, God can be vengeful and God simply just wouldnt forgive Fenton.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

Hmm, I've actually never analyzed this film. I'll have to rewatch it a bit more conscientiously and get back to this thread. Loved the film but not one I find myself interested in watching multiple times.

[–] scannerdarkly (1274) 2 years ago

There are movies that are best when you dont watch it but every several years. Let us know what you think when you rewatch it! October is the best time for movies like this : )

[–] acidraindrop (3055) a year ago

Fuck, I never did rewatch this movie. lol here's another reminder to myself. Wonder what's streaming it right now.

[–] jcnyclv (1382) a year ago

I also have never analyzed this movie. I saw it once, many years ago, and I remember liking it very much but I never thought too much about it afterwards.

I'm going to watch it again too. After reading all this, I'm wondering if I even fully understood things at the time. I usually do but now I'm wondering.

It's for rent on Amazon or free on YouTube.

Edited to say: I'm sure I understood it but it's been a very long time so I'm not remembering. I will definitely watch it again very soon.

[–] scannerdarkly (1274) a year ago

You can try your local library to borrow the DVD for free. Its possible they have it.

Im looking forward to your views on the movie upon your rewatch : )

No pressure though, whenever you have the time and inclination, its a good watch when you havent seen it in many years.