MovieChat Forums > Dagon (2001) Discussion > What was Dagon's motive?

What was Dagon's motive?

posted 13 years ago by bananafanta18
27 replies | jump to latest

Let me start by saying I love this film almost as much as I love the story it's based on, but now that I think about it, I'm not entirely sure what Dagon's (or the Deep Ones') motives were in either.

The premise is the same, humans are granted plenty of fish and ancient gold in exchange for worshipping (and occasionally engaging in intercourse with) fish people. But why? At first, I thought perhaps the hybrids were necessary to extend Dagon's rule to the land rather than just the ocean, but then I dismissed it when I remembered that they all seem to eventually return to the water to live among the Deep Ones (in the movie I believe it is only implied, but the story directly states that the hybrid Deep Ones all seem to reach a point in their development where they really can't even be walking around outside and eventually have to return).

I guess "repopulation" sort of makes sense, but only for the film, which only makes mention of Dagon (and not the Deep Ones as a whole). I can see how if he were the last of his kind, he would need to repopulate, but the Shadow over Innsmouth seemed to imply that there were a large multitude of Deep Ones (enough that the fisherman encountered them in another country and a whole slew of them followed him back).

[–] mads-26 13 years ago

True, Dagon's motive for the deals are to increase his ranks (remember that the deep ones are basically not only his foot troops but also his minions).

Why he need more is not really mentioned in Lovecraft's books (or others for that matter) except that it is to increase the ranks. Though when you consider that he sees them as his children and that they protect Dagon, Mother Hydra and to some extent Cthulhu from the old gods, it does make sense that the more you have the better protected and serviced you are.

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[–] kukident 13 years ago

never read a book before or had any idea my whole life, but if i were to take a wild guess i d say he communicated with them over an under-water radio station

[–] mads-26 13 years ago

Yes he communicate with them though dreams and telepathy, just like the other old ones (Cthulhu is often mentioned that his followers receive his will through dreams of nightmarish proportions too terrible to describe).
Dagon probably has the same ability.

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[–] haafket 13 years ago

Money and power are usually the things driving bad guys into doing what they do. And in this case I would go and say power, since money does not seem to be a problem if he can get the villagers as much gold as they would ever need.

[–] jackIYM 13 years ago

The Old Ones are engaged in a war with several other lifeforms for possesion of the Earth. The last big battle was against the Elder Things(At the Mountains of Madness). While they are bottled up, there are still loose shoggoths and others.

They want recruits.

In Lovecraft's stories both Dagon and Cthulhu offer this mad eternity that will be strange and glorious to their followers(later writers created the idea that the Old Ones would simply eat/kill everyone).

Kneel before the Old Ones and gain eternity beside them.

It's not a bad deal.

[–] Ixnatifual 13 years ago

Dagon wants cable.

[–] morden1018 12 years ago

The story at least hints that the Deep Ones were using Innsmouth as a beachhead, a foot in the door of sorts. They planned to slowly expand their hegemony of the surface world.

[–] mads-26 12 years ago

Wrong, Dagon and mother hydra offer people to become like them (and mad), Cthulhu only promise to kill the followers first so they are spared his dominion of torture, madness, screams and pain.

[–] shiben 12 years ago

Did Cthulhu ever really promise anything to his followers? I was always under the impression that he didn't give two craps about his followers, they just worshipped him anyhow because he's a freaking star-god. Isn't that sort of the point of cosmic horror? That you are like an ant to them - totally worthless and not even a blip in their thought process

I have no mouth and I must scream.

[–] mads-26 12 years ago

True, he did not, but the followers believe that they would be eaten by him first and hence spared his reign.

[–] jackIYM 12 years ago

Not eaten....

" Then, whispered Castro, those first men formed the cult around small idols which the Great Ones shewed them; idols brought in dim aeras from dark stars. That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."

[–] daydreamer021979 12 years ago

The Old Ones are Eldritch Abominations. We as human beings are not meant to understand their motives or thought process. To understand them is to Go Mad From the Revelation. Yeah I read too much tvtropes :)

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] PostmortemG 11 years ago

I've yet to read Lovecraft's works extensively, but from a Biblical perspective, what was happening in the film was obviously a battle between gods: Christ and Dagon. The story is an illustration of Dagon's might, and the "rewards" that it was/is willing to bestow upon its followers in exchange for their servitude. It's quite the primordial story, really! =P

"Cain and Abel will go to Heaven... if they can make it through Hell!"
-Los Hijos Del Topo

[–] daydreamer021979 11 years ago

Personally I would pass on the rewards of hideous mutation and incest thanks XD Now if Jesus wants to give me the walking on water, loaves and fishes multiplying and the water into wine deal then all I can say is, "Awesome!" :)

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] GreyHunter 10 years ago

What's your problem with hideous mutation and incest? Are you a bigot or something?

Seriously, though, while I can't imagine taking him up on the offer, there are probably plenty of people who would consider these things tolerable if the outcome was immortality.

[–] daydreamer021979 10 years ago

Jesus also offers eternal life and without mutations. You may not like it, but his offer is simply better.

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

Christianity doesn't have anything to do with the things Lovecraft writes about. Stop trying to shoehorn it into the mix.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?

[–] daydreamer021979 10 years ago

I'm not the one who originally brought it up so don't blame me.

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] jbaker1-2 7 years ago

Overlooking for the moment the fact that there's no verifiable objective evidence that the Christian deity (or any other deity, for that matter) is any more real than Cthulhu, the problem with the Christian version of immortality is that in order to live forever, you first have to die (sort of self-contradictory, don't you think?). Not a very attractive proposition when you think about it, especially considering that no one has ever come back to confirm that the stories are true. As far as anyone still living can see, Grandpa is done for. Maybe he got his harp and wings, maybe he's just dead. There's no way of knowing. And how do Christians deal with this? "You just gotta trust me, dude! This is legit." They talk the talk, but as far as proving their claims, they don't walk the walk.

Lovecraft's gods, on the other hand, deliver in the here and now. Real, tangible results. Yes, they demand a high price for their favors, but given a choice between dying and maybe (but probably not) being resurrected and a sure guarantee of living forever, even as a fishman, without the requirement of physical death, I think I'll learn to like water sports.

[–] daydreamer021979 7 years ago

Well if you want people peeing on you that is your choice. Enjoy your watersports.

LIGAF

[–] Duragizer 11 years ago

I've yet to read Lovecraft's works extensively, but from a Biblical perspective, what was happening in the film was obviously a battle between gods: Christ and Dagon. The story is an illustration of Dagon's might, and the "rewards" that it was/is willing to bestow upon its followers in exchange for their servitude. It's quite the primordial story, really! =P

Lovecraft was pretty antipathic to Judeo-Christian theology, and the vast majority of his stories preclude the possibility of God or any other similar deities from existing. That being said, that might not be true for this movie itself, and it's certainly a great idea nevertheless.

Standing there, on a road that leads to anywhere ...

[–] cyguration 9 years ago

I've always found this particular topic fascinating.

In the Bible they mention similar things to Lovecraft's "Old Ones" -- they refer to them as "Principalities" -- others that are presumably cosmically enriched to alter time, space and some form of godhood.

Interestingly enough there are times mentioned in the Bible (and in the missing books) where God holds court with various beings, not all of whom are "good". It was like discussing city plans with cosmic civil servants... except not all of them are civil and not all of them want to be servants.

It baffles me why this is rarely ever explored, though? That maybe the fight isn't always just "Satan" -- there are others also mentioned throughout the Bible that sound awfully familiar to Dagon. One I think was Baal and there were a few more that required sacrifices of sorts.

Seems like people are afraid to explore that topic further in movies but I always wondered why?

[–] GreatWhiteApeofBarsoom 8 years ago

Lovecraft's universe is one where the "gods" are really superpowerful alien beings originating far from Earth. Christianity has no place in his cosmology. Lovecraft envisions the universe as complete amoral, apathetic, and indifferent to humans. He expands on this concept in The Shadow out of Time and At the Mountains of Madness, in the former mentioning how humans will give way to a race of beetles and in the latter discussing how the Old Ones created the evolutionary cycle culminating (for the moment) in Man before seeing their civilization destroyed. Christ and Christianity have no place in Lovecraft's scheme of things.

Requiescat in pace, Krystle Papile. I'll always miss you.

[–] 12 years ago

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