I really didn't like the way that the film ended. I would have prefered it if the movie ended with Holly and Nat on the bus looking into each other's eyes. I thought the 2001 ending felt a bit false. We skip forward 10 years and all of a sudden everyone is friends again. Anyone else feel the same?
I also hated the ending. Holly was in a bad relationship (with Marina). Going to New York would have been liberating. Instead she renegotiated a bad social contract of a slightly better basis. Even Nat wasn't much of a prize. If he had been attracted to her and he had been any kind of man, Marina's minor road blocks would not have made any difference.
The problem with the film from my point of view is that the central conflict is whether Holly should continue her friendship with Marina and the film didn't show much that was positive, so there was plenty of reason to end it, and not much reason for it to continue.
Actually, there was plenty of reason for Holly to continue her relationship (if not friendship) with Marina. She was married to Marina's brother. Remember that old saying "you can choose your friends but you can't choose your family"?
chuckhhill wrote:
"The problem with the film from my point of view is that the central conflict is whether Holly should continue her friendship with Marina and the film didn't show much that was positive, so there was plenty of reason to end it, and not much reason for it to continue."
"Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?"
I totally agree, I really liked the movie untill the ending, to me it felt slapped on and unclear. I wasnt sure if Holly gave up the New York idea and stayed in the dysfuntional friendship with Marina, or if Holly did go to New York, and what we saw was a reunion of sorts.
shareThe ending was the only week point in the movie. Not only because it made Nat look like a weenie, but because it froze in such a way with the daughters, that was just cheeze.
And it's also not clear if she did go to NYC, yes I aggree with that. They should have ended the movie with her and Nat on the bus, and left well enough alone, regardless of the reality of the situation. In a way the ending gives Marina a break and shows that her freind and family forgave her for being who she is, but I felt that that wasn't enough. It didn't live up to the title of the film. It sort of made me sad because the film did so much right, where others have gone really wrong.
I do think that this is a chick flick, but that doesn't matter. It shouldn't make it bad. If more chick flicks were like this or Movern Caller (sp?), the genre wouldn't be so tarnished in the first place. This movie stayed with me for a while after seeing it in the movies, and I watched it last night, and I felt the same way the second time.
Bravo.
I can say this from my own experience...There are some people in our lives that just won't leave. I don't mean that we actually are trying to get rid of them...just there is this bond. We can fight, hate, love...but our lives won't ever go seperate ways...never...
sharei liked the ending.
i find that the fact you don't know wether she went to new york or not a good thing. leaves room for intepretation. which is better than being forced into one definate conclusion in my opinion. it was also great to see how marina had completely turned into her mother as she was at this age. (even as far as complaning that the girls are giving her a headache just as marinas mother did in an earlier scene)
and it's suggested that there is going to be a whole new cylce of a marina and holly story with their two children which i thought was a nice touch. there was even a brother which i guess would represent nat at that age.
i'm not saying the film was perfect and certainly had flaws but i didn't have any problem with the ending myself. i thought it was a nice way to end it.
all in all a great little film i would say!
I also liked the ending.
It showed that Marina was no longer controlling the situation and that Nat and Holly WOULD end up together. We saw a photo of Holly and Marian as young children, and then we see they both had daughters who would probably go on to be best friends.
I am glad we were brought up to date on the fact that Holly and Nat ended up together.
Gee, I thought that it was clear that she WOULD go to New YOrk?
I like that they remained friends.
But what I don't think that was realstic - I think 10 years from then Marina would still be pretty messed up - and both girls probably divorced.Stay close to the candles.
I actually really liked the ending; I thought it wrapped up everyone's characters quite nicely. Nat and Holly are together and happy (because whenever they aren't, they're miserable. Well, at least Holly is). The whole time, Holly is following after Marina while she does all these crazy things. All Holly wants is a stable relationship, though, and they show that by comparing her relationship with Daniel (the professor) to Marina's relationship with him. Now that Holly is in a stable relationship and with Nat, she's completely content. Meanwhile, Marina is accepting the consequences of her life...she's burnt out and unhappy. I took it that Holly and Marina aren't as great as friends as they were before. I took it as Holly took the job in New York and she and Nat went off and did all the things that made them happy while Marina had to hang around because of her unhappy marriage and pregnancy. Holly and Marina are still connected but the connection's not as strong anymore because Holly broke away (as well she should).
shareI thought it wrapped up everyone's characters quite nicely.
A lot of people are saying that they hate the fact that they show everything like it's okay, but I don't think they were trying to show that. Everything is definitely not okay (because of all the stuff they both went through) but they'll always be connected. I mean, in the beginning, they're "Harina" and I think despite what happens they'll always be that. Even if they hate each other, they'll still be in each others lives, if only for a few hours at a time. I think when Holly tells Marina that she can't do it anymore, she just means be so close to each other. Holly could probably get on in life without that intimate relationship, but she still needs some part of Marina, because they're "Harina" and they'll always be, to some degree.
I think the last scene takes the film full circle. At the beginning, they're friends, they're "Harina." If the film ended at the bus scene, it wouldn't have said much about Holly and Marina's relationship. They began as friends and they'll end as friends (even if they aren't as close).
I agree. Some relationships are really complicated, and a lot of times, you just can't cut people out of your lives because it's more convenient and/or healthy. It may be better for the person, however, that is perhaps not how real life works. For better or for worse, the girls have a part of each other that other people who come in their lives will not have. They'll know each other. They've seen each other when they were young, and shared their ïmmature" hopes and dreams that as you grow older, can't seem to reiterate (from personal experience).
"There is ultimately a species of happy ending, although you realize it represents maturity and weariness more than victory. The struggles of the teens and 20s are so fraught, so passionate, so seemingly desperate, that when you grow older and learn balance and perspective, there's a bittersweet sense of loss. In years to come, Marina and Holly may reflect that they were never happier than when they were making each other miserable."
"I don't know about what happened... because once you start writing, it all becomes fiction."
also it does actually show their development. like holly isn't afraid to be with nat around marina, and the girls don't seem so stuck to each other.
and it's been ten years, the scene is so brief becasue we're still allowed to guess what happened in such a long time. the freeze frame of the daughters was a bit cheesy though, it's like omg it's happening again???!!!
I read this whole thread, there are a lot of good posts in it.
In my personal opinion I liked the ending...
I think that they did not hate eachother at all.
They were jealous of the other's characteristics.
Holly wanted to be more Risque and Marina wanted to be more cultured.
They help each other by providing what they can't do themselves. Eg: Holly brings stability to Marina's wild ways, and Marina brings excitement to Hollys reserved ways.
Clearly Marina and Nat care a lot about each other so since it was obvious that Holly and Nat were going to end up together, Holly would be seeing Marina for the rest of her life.
It would be impossible for Holly to cut all ties even if she wanted to, due to the fact that she was going to end up with a close member of her family.
I don't think Holly wanted to go to NYC at all and I think she stayed in the end.
It wasn't her. She remarks to Nat that it would be good to go away and start again. A lot of people have that feeling. I think hat's the only reason she wanted to go. To get away from the bad situation and start a new life.
Since she ended up with Nat there was no particular reason for her to flee.
Also, I still think a part of it was her trying to act like Marina and do one better than Marina (as we see throughout the whole film.)
I don't see why everyone is complaining that the children were doomed to live the same as Harina.
It's not necessarily saying that.
But as others have mentioned Marina is complaining of a sore head and telling the kids to shut up, that's exactly what HER mum did at the start of the film.
It's pretty common for people to grow up to be like their mum. Her mum did a lousy job and Marina was doing no better in raising her kids.
I think that was more the point they were making. That there was another MARINA (not Harina)
After all, the camera was following Marina's daughter and froze more on her.
I couldn't care less whether Holly went to NYC or not. Like I said before I don't think she actually wanted to. I think they both settled down. I don't find it necessary for a film to spell everything out and have a definitive ending.
BUT I think if she did go to New York they would have shown her in New York, possibly working or being sucessful, or at least shown them in a city rather than a cosy British looking house/ garden.
I seriously doubt that Marina would have been featured in the same scene if things changed a lot. It doesn't exactly look like Marina is visiting them in NYC or anything.... unless she moved too which is quite unlikely imo.
The film ended the way it began in that whimsicle way but I think it was supposed to be funny.
It sort of reminded me of at the end of horror films when the killer comes back to life and laughs or winks or something.
I completely agree with you about the NYC thing. That's a really minor plot point, and it's obvious she only did it to get of that relationship.
It seemed obvious from the ending that they had come to some sort of resolution. She and Nat were together which was the thing Marina dreaded the most. And I think Marina married the Jewish psychiatrist, and in her own way was happy. She'll always be sarcastic and biting but it seemed she had calmed down somewhat.
I tended to look at the ending shot as more hopeful than anything, that these girls could grow up incredibly close without the dysfunction of their mothers relationship.
I didn't really have a problem with the ending in terms of the idea of them still being friends but the '10 years later" scene did feel very abrupt and thin compared to the rest of the movie.
I think they could have afforded to add on a few more minutes or maybe even leave the scene on the cutting room floor as some have suggested....
but I still L-O-V-E this movie :)
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the 2001 endeing didn't fit... should have been 1995 or something.....Or how about the millenium and they are all back at the house again for a celebration....
shareI loved the ending. It wasn't cliche or expected. Sometimes people don't always make the best choice, but thats life.
shareActually, I found the ending TO be clichéd, where the children of the main characters are slated to go through the same relationship as their mothers.
I have a lot of close friendships which have lasted MANY years, but I believe Marina became toxic to Holly and they became toxic to one another. It was a really important scene where Holly told her she WAS leaving, to stop suffocating her, etc. etc., and then they're all thick as thieves with kids.
Maybe it was meant to be ambiguous, but with Holly's strong resolve to make her own way, it would have been nice to know whether or not she ever tried.
I cherish my close friendships, but I could not deal with THAT kind of closeness. It really would be suffocating to me.
well, I think that Marina and Holly were not as close anymore, but their kids were cousins, so they were going to be in each other's lives.
Question about Marina though... she had two kids. are her and the jewish man still together? (Name escapes me now.. heh)
it could have worked, and i think it really shouldhave cos i wanted to know that nat and holly stayed together. but it was so so cheesy it was unbelievable. with lines like "stop torturing you're brother you're giving mummy a headache" and "keep the noise down darling", and then that awful freeze frame.
the rest of the movie though, perfect.
I think the 'Mummy's got a headache' thing was supposed to show how Marina had turned into her own flighty mother (dark glasses = hangover/painkillers etc). No effort was made with Holly and Nat in the same scene - they both look about 22, despite having two ten-year-old brats running around the garden, one of whom - in an unforgivably cheesy gimmick - is disporting Marina's New Romo tattered vintage cocktail dress.
shareI also wondered about whether Marina and Leo were still together.
One point to note is that Rivka was "torturing" her brother --- that means she stayed with Leo at least a few more years...
I'd also have like to know if they stayed together --- it makes a very big difference in knowing how Marina made out.
I didn't feel that there was any real problem betwen her and Leo. Her dad was a bit of a creep, but Leo was a nice guy and good to her.
B Zion
I felt EXACTLY the same way! It was just too brief and easy. I would have much prefered the ending to be ambiguous rather than so simple.
share