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Soames: Wondering if Everyne Watched the Same Series?


Soames was to say the least, a complicated character. He definitely was capable of genuine love and affection. He illustrates this in his relationship with his father and daughter. At the same time, he could be obssessive and scarily creepy. He was like a child that did not know his own strength. He treated Irene like a pet, squeezing her tightly, not caring at all for her feelings. It was all about want he wants. He obssessed over her but I would not call it love. On their first date, his behavior was inappropriate and embarrassingly humiliating. He was not taught impulse control and his sense of entitlement due to wealth and position skewed his moral compass. Even as the years went on, he did not get it. Not til the very end. I felt for him because he felt deeply for Irene but he never understood her. She was wrong for marrying him no matter how desperate she was. She is also guilty of withholding affection. She did not like him and could not pretend however. Her affair was selfish as she sought happiness where she could find it. Both parties are at fault for different reasons.

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I agree with your general assessment. Upon second or third viewing (I have all the DVDs), I find Soames less creepy but no less sad. Irene (in his eyes) was the prize beautiful object in his collection, but was also a living being. He was overwhelmed by his own emotions which he was unaccustomed to letting loose. He did not fully comprehend her 'warning' or stipulation about 'letting her go if the marriage was not successful' which, in his business world, would have been a big Red Flag. Even today, anyone going into marriage looking for the nearest exit should be shown the door immediately.

I enjoyed the series overall as I did the previous version presented in the 1970s. Irene was not as beautiful or sensual as Nyree Dawn Porter (original series), but she 'grew' on me over the course of the series. In fact, all the characters are very well drawn over the years. These relationships are very complex, not alike our quick-fix soap operas or reality shows. I won't give away spoilers to those who haven't seen the whole thing.

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Everyone watched the same series. I've re-watched it several times, and my sympathy for Soames decreases with each viewing. Damien Lewis did a spectacular job portraying the character, and I think that in some cases, sympathy for Lewis may interfere in an accurate estimate of the repellent character he portrays.

Most sympathy for him comes about in the second half, when his daughter mistreats him and disrespects him. She's young and in love and blames her father for things he deserves no blame for. But that doesn't make her father sympathetic.

As other posters have noted, very few characters in this series are likable, but Soames is loathsome.

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I've re-watched it several times, and my sympathy for Soames decreases with each viewing.

That was my experience as well. I used to feel sympathy for Soames, but it has greatly decreased. But like you said yourself, I guess that people like him the best in the later episodes, and I have yet to re-watch those.

Most sympathy for him comes about in the second half, when his daughter mistreats him and disrespects him. She's young and in love and blames her father for things he deserves no blame for.

I have to disagree with this. It was her father's behavior in a situation, that had taken place many years before she was even born, that made Jon's father and sister turn him against Fleur. So she was right to be mad at him. But she also forgives him very quickly, as it seems.

Intelligence and purity.

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I agree with much of what you write, but I have to make two remarks.

1: There are some people out there, who can't see the line between unselfish love and a creepy obsession, and it seems like Soames belonged to that cathegory... I am convinced that he really loved Irene, but just like you said, he was never able to show any of that in a proper way. But his father had raised him to be just what he became: a man who had to possess what he wanted. Maybe he also had some disorder, that made it impossible for him to understand if he had crossed a line? But he also lived in a not so distant time period, when it was just natural for many people that a wife basically was a part of her husband's property. And a rape would not even legally be a rape back then if a husband did it to his wife. But it was clearly impossible for Soames to understand that Irene wanted a different kind of life, which lead to tragedy for them both.

2: If you can say that Irene was wrong to marry Soames, I believe that you haven't fully understood her situation (and only a few people at this message board seem to understand it, as it seems). When she felt that she had no other choice than to marry Soames, she was still a young naive orphan. And in her social class back then (as a professor's daughter, she would have belonged to the upper middle class), girls were taught that marriage was the best option for them. Even though a marriage often meant that the poor girl had to just plunge herself into the cold mercy of a man, whom she hardly even knew before the wedding night. I don't see how you can judge poor Irene for doing what everybody expected her to do: say yes to a (as far as people could tell) respectable gentleman, who had come to her and asked for her hand in marriage. And she also was stuck with a stepmother, who wanted to get rid of her within a year. Irene might have had time to find a job (even if only a few different occupations would have been suitable for her) or a different man to marry, if only either one of her real parents had still been alive. But she didn't have such luxury, and she was desperate to get away from her stepmother as fast as she could. And the affair with Bossiney was also understandable when you consider the circumstances. Irene had never gotten anything but grief out of her disastrous marriage to Soames, and it seems like Bossiney never loved June as much as she loved him. And then one day, Irene and Bossiney met and started falling in love with each other, so things just started happening. And you might just remember that in the end, all of this only blew up in Irene's face anyway...

Intelligence and purity.

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If you can say that Irene was wrong to marry Soames, I believe that you haven't fully understood her situation (and only a few people at this message board seem to understand it, as it seems). When she felt that she had no other choice than to marry Soames, she was still a young naive orphan.


I think many posters here who hate Irene understand her situation just fine; The Forsyte Saga, to me, is a litmus test of a viewer's misogyny. Irene, no matter how cold to Soames, is first to last sympathetic. She's not only sympathetic, she's tragic. I went through an interval of regarding her coldness to Soames as indefensible. Then I realized her coldness to him (and betrayal of June with Bosinney) are/were survival mechanisms.

There is that awful scene where she douches in a cold tub after sex with Soames. It's just awful. So she doesn't deny him his conjugal "rights." Her mind just can't tolerate being pregnant by a predator, because Soames remains first to last a predator, or stalker, or hunter. Again, I think the actress who portrays Irene has a great deal to do with less cerebral viewers' reaction to her. I personally think Gina McKee was superb as the character; hers is the epicene, remote kind of British beauty that *would* have been called beauty by people of that era. That she's not some curly-maned Harlequin Romance strumpet apparently influences some viewers to have a negative view of the fictional character she portrays, just as some viewers--many viewers--like of Damien Lewis predisposes them to like and pity Soames.

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I don't believe that it has to do with misogyny (at least I hope that it doesn't), but rather with that things have changed so much since the 1880s. It is not that easy for people today to understand that back then, girls from the upper middle class couldn't choose and pick, especially not if their parents were dead and they didn't have a fortune to live on. Women have gotten so many more options nowadays, and we have become so used to that, that a situation like Irene's is alien to most of us. But many girls back then would have made the same mistake that she did, because a "lady" still wasn't supposed to be independent and support herself by getting a career. Things had only slowly started to change by the 1880s, and it was too early for Irene to have an alternative.

And I have personally never seen Irene as anything but sympathetic. But when I came across an eerily similar character in a Swedish novel (she too was a young orphan daughter of a professor in the 1880s, who was bullied and pushed into a disastrous marriage to a rapist), I got an even better understanding of what Irene did and why. She must have hoped that their marriage would work out after all in the end, that she and Soames would grow closer to each other. But alas, that was never going to happen, and the old TV version from 1967 even has her crying already during their wedding night. The tub scene only exists in the 2002 version, but it too showed what a mistake this marriage was.

The sad thing about Gina McKee is that she looks nothing like the blond beauty, that Irene was in in the novels (and Nyree Dawn Porter looked the part in the 1960s version). Because even if you and I can live with her not looking exactly like the character does in the novel, many people can't.

Intelligence and purity.

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You write very well.

I never regarded Irene as being within a country mile of Soames in terms of--well, villainy. I did (and still do) find the episode with hers and Jolyon's son painful to watch.

Unlike you, I do not think relations between the sexes have changed all that much in women's favor, or that--unless born in middle- or upper-class western society--a woman today has a chance at a life substantially much different than Irene's. The types of inequity and cruelty women today face, even some with six-figure salaries and corner offices, still make life as fundamentally harrowing as it was in Irene's day...which is why The Forsyte Saga is so watchable. I should say the 2002 version is so watchable. I tried to watch the earlier and found it tedious in the extreme.

Irene is without doubt the most complex character, but next is Jolyon (the Second?). Their son sacrificing himself for his mother is definitely a situation that could be found in a modern American family. A great test for Soames sympathizers would be, I think, for them to watch a version where Damien Lewis didn't play the role and see if they still found the character as pitiful.

And frankly, if Gina McKee had not played Irene, I'm not sure I would have stayed with this version. She plays Irene as so remote, so delicate, and is able to do it because of her constant sadness. I couldn't tolerate a version of this story that had Irene as a vivacious ingenue; depicting the character as a blonde beauty--even if this is how she appears in the novel--turns the tale into some kind of Dickensian vision of imperiled virtue. I think Gina McKee absolutely nailed the role (and I have never seen her in any other film or television series).

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I couldn't classify myself as a Soames sympathizer exactly, but there are times when I absolutely do sympathize with him. At times he was outright pitiable.

Until I saw this I'd neither seen nor heard of Damien Lewis, so that's not why I found his Soames completely fascinating and electric. To me he carried the show. The others were good as well, but his performance was a standout.

I liked McKee as Irene too, and hadn't seen her before either. She fascinated me physically, because at times she looked beautiful, and at others almost homely. I also liked her remoteness and pervasive sadness.

I do think women's plight has dramatically improved since the setting for TFS, unlike you, but agree some responses are born of misogyny, unfortunately.

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The Forsyte Saga, to me, is a litmus test of a viewer's misogyny. Irene, no matter how cold to Soames, is first to last sympathetic.


Wow. If we don't agree with you, we're misogynists?? I suppose if we disagree with the president's policies we're racist, too.

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After seeing the last episode of the second season, I respected the acting talents of Damien Lewis and Gina McKee even more. The last scene where Lewis brings the Dega for Jon is heartbreaking. After hearing his confession to Fleur about the rape, you feel for his embarrassment and sadness. The final scene where they shake hands is so powerful. It is clear that Soames is grateful that Irene has finally forgiven him for the rape during their marriage. Soames leaves the house feelling better that the most horrible moment of his life has been forgiven. Irene finally see Soames as someone different because he showed her that he was not only about possessing things. It was a powerful ending to a superb series. The characters in this series were so layered. The actors were all terrific.

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