Please don't get me wrong , I love Gundam Wing it was my first real Anime ( not counting random epsodes of Dragonball) but Endless Waltz was horrible . I was so psyched when I found a copy of Endless Waltz , then I watched it . Endless Waltz is so full of plot holes I can barly watch it , does anyone else agree .
No offence meant to any EW Fans , it's only my opinion .
If anyone respondes I'll give my current list of Endless Waltz Plot Holes
I thought it was good. No offence taken by the way :) I didn't see any plotholes, though. Course, I try my best not to read into certain movies. I would like to read your list of plotholes though, if you don't mind.
"Bun toucher"-Chris Harper, Calendar Girls
Alex
For the sake of Time I will limit the list to things that really Annoy Me .
1. Zechs ,How he survived , where he was in the year in between the series and the movie , and where he got Tallgeese III .
2. The drastic change in the design of the Gundams with no real explanation .
3. The sudden change in the pilots attitude , since when did they have any aversion to killing .
Those are the big ones but for some reson they really bug me , thanks for resonding
"1. Zechs ,How he survived , where he was in the year in between the series and the movie , and where he got Tallgeese III."
I always just figured he went into hiding, seeing as I'm pretty sure not many people were happy with him about that whole "dropping libra on earth" thing. But I agree with the where did he get Tallgeese III. Maybe the Preventers made it or something.
2. The drastic change in the design of the Gundams with no real explanation .
I guess they(creators) just wanted to make them look cooler and we were supposed to believe they always looked like this. But I can see where people would get confused. I was a little confused myself, but I didn't dwell on it.
3. The sudden change in the pilots attitude , since when did they have any aversion to killing .
hmmm, you got me there I guess trying to nail us on the head about war is wrong, and killing people is wrong as well. I really have no rebuddle for it.
Good points.
"Bun toucher"-Chris Harper, Calendar Girls
Alex
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Here’s something I find odd , in a dip into philosophy Gundam Wing repeatedly tells us that it is in human nature to fight , to do battle even against overwhelming odds . Endless Waltz reinforces this idea even more , the three beats concept . I submit that Endless Waltz is hypocritical . At the beginning of the Movie the narrator says something along the lines of " as long as humans exist, there will always be battle " then when we come to the end of our story and the Narrator speaks again and I quote " and no Mobile Suits even the ones known as Gundams were never seen again " or something like that . My point is , we are supposed to believe that after the battle with Marimaya and the Barton foundation Nobody ever uses Mobile Suits again .
That’s just bad story telling
Just because theres no moble suits doesn't really mean there was never any more war. They still had guns and bombs.
"Bun toucher"-Chris Harper, Calendar Girls
Alex
Then let me ask you a question . if you were in charge of a Army would you give up your most powerful weapon ?
shareGood question, good question,
I don't know much about the Army, so forgive me if I get this wrong. The army gets their funding from the government(I think), and if the government votes no more moble suits than I guess the army really has no choice. However, if I were in charge and I felt the need to have them, I would play my cards. I would put on a front of siding with the the government officals about no moble suits and gain their trust while secretly dealing with rogue engineers and secret funders to make my own army of moble suits. Or perhaps something more deadly
Tough call really
Since were talking plot holes, I do recall one that did bother me. During Wufei and Heero's fight above Earth Wufei says something like "I do not accept Relena Peacecraft's ways. Her belief that peace is obtained by throwing away weapons and confining soldiers is wrong." Now I've never really been for the whole "If we throw weapons away we'll automatically have peace" thing Relena has going, but there is some reason to it I guess. However where did Confining Soldiers come from? Was this just a mis-translation? I don't remember hearing this part of her plan in the series.
"Bun toucher"-Chris Harper, Calendar Girls
Alex
My guess is mis-translation , I know Wufei was worried about what would happen to soldirs when there was no war , it might have something to do with that
shareOh okay. That was one of the things that bugged me. Anything else you want to discuss? You've had some good points so far, and I'm bored :)
"Bun toucher"-Chris Harper, Calendar Girls
Alex
Maybe they ran out of Gundanium and titanium to build mobile suits with.
shareRemember something, we never saw Zechs actually DIE. The last we saw of him (if I remember correctly, its been a few years) was that his suit, Gundam Epyon had been cut by Wing Gundam Zero, and he had some parting words for Heero. Epyon explodes, and Wing Gundam Zero goes to destroy Libra.
Now... when Wufei and Heero are in battle on the colony (Leo suit Vs. Gundam Nataku), Trowa rocks the place with an explosion, and when Wufei turns his attention back to Heero, he's gone. Why couldn't Zechs do the same thing? In my opinion, the coolness factor of Zechs WAAAAAY outdoes Heero, so its only fitting that Zechs stay alive. He's too cool to die, haha.
The change in the Gundams was for movie purposes only. Usually in movies, the art is done over, and I think that the Gundams have a more dramatic feel to them now, in example: Wing Gundam Zero's angel wings, as Heero was always looked at as the Savior of Humanity, or Gundam Deathscythe Hell's new Devil look (MUCH more evil looking than the Gundam Deathscythe Hell of GundamW TV series).
And the pilot's attitude: that's an easy one. The whole war was built on a lie. Mariemaia was under influence of Dekim Barton. She had NO idea what she was doing. Dekim Barton had been the REAL bad guy ever since Episode 1 of the series. He planned Operation Meteor way back in the day, etc. SO, everyone knew this, hence why they felt no one deserved to die. ALONG WITH THE FACT: that they all swore peace. Killing soldiers is by no means preserving peace, right? So they sought out to only destroy the weapons..... that and it makes the story seem more emotional, haha.
Captain Jack Sparrow: My peanut!
It was explained as to why the gundams changed design. Each time the gundam design change it was due to advancements made by the original creators(within the show) the scientists. Remember within the series they changed design once each as well, the only one that went over dramatic changes was Altron, since it went from Shenlong-Altron-Nataku. Sandrock only was upgraded once, as was Heavyarms, who really only got more firepower. Deathscythe upgraded to having a twin beam scythe and active cloak, to having a stronger single beam scythe and a better active cloak system. The wings on wing gundam zero are not angel wings they are bird wings keeping true with first two generation Wing models which were variable mobile suits and changed to a bird mode, much like Epyon changes to a twin headed dragon mode. Deathscythe's design was supposed to counter it in that a bat is the only flying mammal. These two are not like the gundams from "Mobile Fighter G-Gundam" that in the dubbed versions were called "Shining" and "Dark" gundam when in the japanese they were "God" and "Devil" gundam. The rebuild for Deathscythe was done by OZ at their lunar base where the original five scientists were being held and forced to develop new suit technology. All of this info is available on mahq.net
sharejust read the manga, and the volume "Bilnd Target." i sense someone needs to peel back and understand the all the layers of gundam. while your at it, read "Episode Zero."
shareNo, it didn't suck I thought it was a more fitting end to GW than the last ep. of the TV series which had a pretty dumb final 3 or so minutes. But it had the complete overhauls of the mobile suit designs and that's what upset me the most.
shareI think it was your typical OVA/sequel/movie to an anime of sorts (mind you the Gundam franchise had already risen above that tradition with Gundam Zeta and Char's Counterattack to the original show). Similar to the Cowboy Beebop movie or the Full Metal Alchemist movie...Endless Waltz was a big bone thrown to the fans with a more satisfying character wrap up than the series.
But like those two other mentioned, the plot and storyline feels cobbled together. Mya Maia (sp?) and her faction seemed like an after thought so did her move for war, but it was really just the groundwork to see the Gundams fight for peace one more time.
About them not killing anyone, I think it was shown how they progressed. IN the show they were heartless killing machines at the beginning, lost their orders and lost their ways and were confused killing machines and the Sanc Kingdom gave them something to solidfy themselves with and by the end of the show (the whole Zechs going crazy with the WF fiasco) they were thinking for themselves finally.
I assume with peace achieved they wanted to prevent the cycle and were tired of killing...but it does seem a little illogical to fight a war and spare enemies, especially when earlier Heero and Duo had no qualms about killing those poor bastards in the Space Colony with machine guns and gernades.
Also there is no explanation as to where the Tallgese III came from, why the man who tried to destroy Earth would become an agent for its government and how horrified he was about the prospect of a colony being dropped on Earth (I don't care if he repented, he planned to do worse himself before that).
And the biggest plot hole:
WTF?! Why did the new faction let Trowa pilot their mobile suits and walk around scot-free on their base after Wufei already revealed him to be a fraud?!?!
But with that said its original purposes, which was the cool mecha action with a budget that finally made it look as epic as those designs deserved and a satisfying conclusion to the characters arcs was there. It brought Zechs back for his fans, showed Relena grew up and was no longer an idealist but was making her ideals work in reality, Wufei stop from being such an ass and Duo, Quatre and Trowa going on with their lives. Heero...well it is still as vague as the series ending.
lso there is no explanation as to where the Tallgese III came from, why the man who tried to destroy Earth would become an agent for its government and how horrified he was about the prospect of a colony being dropped on Earth (I don't care if he repented, he planned to do worse himself before that).
it was only implied that he died he could be hiding out somewhere as for the Tallgeese III the preventers had it and was built for Treize but as not finished in time. the preventers hid it just in case. as for Zechs change of heart that happened at the end of the show hen he cut the power core w/ his MS
The drastic change in the design of the Gundams with no real explanation.
that was just done by the production team there is no reason for it but those are the canon designs no
The sudden change in the pilots attitude , since when did they have any aversion to killing. it was slow change that started in the show as the matured
but some of this was explained in the manga Episode Zero
i didnt really think it was that bad. dont get me wrong they could have done a little better job with it. the things i liked. it had some back storys to what happened befor they had this whole fighting thing. the thing i really liked about the show was that u could never really tell if they are the good guys. it sounds like they r but it somethings is hard. the plot whole thing. i have seen this movie like 14 time(not kidding)and after a wile it makes some sort of sence. Some of it i think they wanted u to figure out or make up on ur own.
shareThats right, you are the only one who thought EW sucked. Funny how that works.
SEXYTIME
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It wasn't that great. Parts were cool, like getting a better look into Heero's past, but so much more annoyed the hell out of me.
What bugged me the most was why Quatre was so useless. AGAIN. They could have just hit autopilot and said goodbye to their Gundams. But then they would have had to make Quatre do something constructive. Too much for the writers, I think. I guess that the only way for him to get any screen time was to babysit the Gundams.
I especially loved it how Quatre complained how hot it was. Like in the time where space colonies can be made with varying SEASONS, they couldn't have a temperature controlled ship. Gotta love that one.
Another great thing is Mariemaia taking a bullet for Relena. Dekim shot for Relena's pelvis? Is that how he managed to shoot Mariemaia through the heart? Because if he really aimed for Relena's heart or head, Mariemaia would have had to be in front of Relena at the time the gun went off and jump at the exact moment to get hit anywhere on her body. Or Dekim is just a really lousy shot.
Angel Berries
No, you're not. Like most anime movies made after-the-fact (ie. as conclusions, or amendments, to the series) this was ultimately pointless filler material.
However, not nearly as horrifically bad as the FMA movie.
Endless Waltz is an upgrade from Mobile Suit Gundam Wing in terms of animation--more detailed, higher quality overall--but that's simply due to it being an OVA rather than a TV series.
and while i can understand the appeal of Gundam Wing to people new to anime/Gundam, as others have pointed out, it's really not up to snuff with the other series. the writing, dialog, and plot all seem rather uninspired.
to me, Wing is a step backwards for the Gundam franchise. from its genre-defining inception, Gundam was conceived of as a Real Robot hard sci-fi series which distinguished itself from the myriad of Super Robot children's cartoons in its realistic portrayal of futuristic warfare and the mecha suits which the stories revolve around. like one IMDb commenter pointed out, Gundam were not superhero characters. yes, they look cool, even stylish, but the genre's most defining characteristics were its practical looking designs and thoughtful take on the mecha genre. these qualities along with the exploration of mature themes in masterfully woven storylines which have since evolved into a vivid fictional universe of epic proportions are what makes Gundam such a timeless cultural icon.
don't get me wrong, Wing is a great show for certain audiences--like the Cartoon Network's primary demographic--but it isn't Gundam in the traditional sense. perhaps there is room for both Gundams, but i would be remiss if i claimed that Gundam Wing embodied the true spirit of the original series. and, indeed, it would be a terrible tragedy if Gundam Wing's commercial success outside of Japan steers future Gundam series towards the Super Robot genre, and away from its hard sci-fi roots.
I actually much prefered Wing to the original Mobile Suit Gundam. The original was just a mess of poorly realized ideas and bland characters. Wing took elements of Mobile Suit and greatly improved upon them. MSG's MC barely qualified as a character, he was basically a robot who just did whatever the fck he needed to do without any substansial character behind any of it. Beyond some of the initial scenes of war, MSG wasn't profound in any sense. The only good aspect was Char the only even semi interesting character. MSG certainly introduced more mature storytelling for it's time, but it hasn't aged well. Oh sure MSG had some good moments, but the series was overall poorly plotted, poorly paced, and poorly executed, and most of it's better plot points and characters were done better in Wing and in subsequent Gundam series.
"I'm trying to bring logic into a game where I can steal hand grenades from a fish"