I think it's sick.....
I think it is sick that there are people out there that would kill someone for such a stupid reason. I hate bigots. Nothing more than closed minded fools.
shareYou have to realize that there is far more to the story than the media lets on. They completely played up the fact that he was gay and that's why the two boys did what they did. While I completely agree that it was a horrible and sickening crime...the two boys intention was to rob him because he had money. They were obviously looking for trouble because Aaron had gotten into a fight later and was in the hospital the same time as Matt. I'm sure part of it had to do with the fact that he was gay, but not nearly as much as any of the forms of media played up.
share"the two boys intention was to rob him because he had money."
(this is not a personal attack at all but) how do we know their intention? it's impossible for us to sit here and imply an intention to their actions, because at the end of the day we cannot possibly predict their pattern of mind. we can assume they wanted to rob him as much as we can assume they killed him for his sexuality...either way, we cannot exclusively apply any reasoning...nor blame the media for dramatising sexual attribution because, again, how do we know?
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Based on factual evidence of the Matthew Shepard crime, I'm sorry to say that it was a case of a hate crime against a homosexual man. They had no intention of robbing him; they were unhappy that he had hit on them; which according to the bartender was brought on by the two young men who committed the crime. So, don't play it off as a simple robbery; because it was a bonafide hate crime; why would it have made so many headlines if it wasn't. I think the problem is that people play down the existence of homosexuality as a choice rather than an inherent trait of being. So, by you stating that it only had a little to do with him being gay; why would they have hung him on a fence and left him overnight to die.
I suppose that I cannot say that it was definitely robbery, but you cannot rule it out. The media played it up because it's an interesting story and they could play it up in their favor. They took many people's words out of context (as did the film) and portrayed it in way that appealed to the public. The thing is, a lot of people will take what I say as being close-minded, or anything else that is related to that area, and that is completely wrong. The difference is that I have studied this case. I have read books, testimonials, statements, etc. I have talked to people who knew him, and knew him fairly well. I have done my research. They intended to rob him. They knew he was gay, and of course that had a portion to do with why they did what they did, which makes it a hate crime but the fact that he was gay was not their motive to doing what they did. They were drunk, on drugs, wanted more drugs, poor, not thinking clearly, etc. Also, do more research before you say they were unhappy that Matt hit on him. They too have engaged in orgies with both men and women. Plus, he didn't really hit on either of them. He sat at the bar drinking and minding his own business and they approached him. Geeze, that part was even in the movie, sad you missed it.
share[deleted]
"no one should go into a bar at night looking for homo relations and meth"
That really makes me laugh....because i can name off several women who go into straight bars looking to pick up a man and snort anything up their noses that they can. Does that mean that they deserve to die as well?
The fact is, he was brutally murdered. The fact is, it was admitted it had to do with sexuality. so what if he was looking or some "gay sex". You walk into any bar in North America and tell me almost all of those people in it, gay OR straight, arent looking for a quicky.
Making excuses for someones death is a sick thing to do. I have had to live through this once already, comming from the home town of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. No more excuses!
Heretobringdapain- no one should look for gay sex? What kind of sex SHOULD they be looking for. You inapropriatly linked gay sex to meth. I dont want to call you stupid because that isn't fair. But you are well represented in the movie we are discussing... you know, the people of Laramie who dont understand.
shareCIVIL. Here2bring, you think t is civil to just accept our differences on this topic. You think being gay is a crime. That is almost like believing that being black or being a woman is a crime. This is a serious issue and must be talked about. Its not a simple as just accepting that you "think this" and I "think that". DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because you simply are not THINKING. I think you stopped thinking when t came to the subject of homosexuality because you can not understand what it is. That is OK. You know what? It is even ok to think that is is IMMORAL, if it is against your religion for some irrational reason. But to think that it is a crime like assault or theft? How do you figure?
The only thing you have going to support that claim is that "Gays spread STDs" which is not really exclusive to homosexuals and therefore a wrong assumption. Other than that can not see how it violates anyone else’s constitutional rights. I think what you meant to say "here2bring" is that you are a fundamentalist Christian who believes that it is immoral. You should put a disclaimer next to your posts saying "not to be taken seriously. I'm about as reason able as AlQuada or a white supremacist.
Not a nice crowd to associate you with, I know. But id the shoe fits….
Also "heretobring", you forget that it was the killers who had the problem, not Matt. If a girl (because I have to assume from your ignorace that you are heterosexual) lured YOU into a a van and killed YOU.. well I guess that would just be messed up right? You were just trying to "get some" like any NORMAL person would. How were you to know she was a psycopath? Poor little boy.
share[deleted]
We can NOT think leave it at that. Thinking that being gay is a crime is not only STUPID, but it is CRIMINAL. IT is NOT OK that you think this. It's like thinking women and blacks shgould not vote. It is a CRIME
How, if i cn seriously ask, is being GAY a CRIME, ma good friend. EXPLAIN, that.
So in your opinion, puting yourself in a sexual situation is always risky. Brilliant you puritan you.
shareomfg heredabringpain, how could you ever think it is a crime to be gay and even remotely link it to crime and theft?! Im completely outraged by your last comment and honestly think that it is people like you that make this world a bad place. What you are saying basically is like saying women and black people cant vote, its on the same lines anyway. A gay lifestlye is more dangerous, what the hell seriously?!
And dont even get me started on when you put he took a dangerous risk and paid for it and mentioning Mike Tyson's rape victim as if it was something unfortunate but you dont blame him for doing it!
I swear i would not want to see a world where youre in charge as i would fear it would resemble something close to Nazi ideals!!!!
forsapo i agree on everything you have said, well done for stating your ideals and going against idiots who still live in the dark ages!
Thank's. Its hard not to be outrages by the animals we are dealing with here. Idiot is one thing, but criminal is another. Yes "here2bring" your thoughs result in crime like the one this movie is so obviously about. Sad that you can actualy watch a movie like this and take nothing with you. Why DID you watch this movie "here2"? I am more curious about this than almost anything else? How do people actualy believe what you believe. Stupidity isn't good enough. Is it religion, parenting, schooling? Your not from Iowa are you?
share"Here2bring" I was curious about you and your amazing and out dated... well... self, so i looked up some of your other posts and was not suprized to find this. I think it will help futur visitors of this forum to decide how seriously to take your posts.
"I think when discussing Gacy and Dahmer, who are the two most sadistic, disgusting, and downright sickening criminals of the 20th century, you have to take into account that both were gay.
Once they realized that their conscience would not prevent them from one perverse act, they found it OK to committ another. Meaning, they were first gay, then killers. It's almost as if the act of gay sex made them realize that they were capable of so much sin, that killing seemed permissable.
It's really scary to think that there are so many homo-related problems in our country, and yet some states are rallying for gay marriage. How can we encourage sin by justifiying it with marriage?
Gacy and Dahmer are proof that the sickest individuals in the world see nothing wrong with sodomy, adultery, homosexuality, rape, torture, dismemberment, cannibalism (Dahmer), and murder. I, for one, am glad to have nothing in common with these animals."
hehe nese i found he had left this comment and i have written a reply to it. Completely outdated ideas! Get into the 21st century
share
they nearly beat him to death tied to a fence in the middle of nowhere...
that's murder not robbery
it's hate, anger and fear
the fact that you try to deny what's so obvious here, is quite disturbing
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REPLY TO THE CORRECT MESSAGE PUH-LEASE
MY MESSAGE DID NOT STATE ANYTHING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE
but here's a reply anyway:
1. someone isn´t gay because he/she commits gay acts
you can also be gay without committing gay acts
you can also be heterosexual without committing heterosexual acts
2. when a human can´t marry because he´s heterosexual
isn´t he facing the same inequalities as a yellow person who can´t get on the bus because of his skin color (or race)?
2. there's many gay christians, your fellow christians.
does this mean a vast majority of gays are black?
there´s even many gay and pedophile priests
does this mean a vast majority of gay and pedophile priests are black?
the answer correct answer is: no
which means being gay has nothing to do with your religion
just because you pray doesnt mean youre not gay
of course you can also give yes as an answer, in which case we can all laugh at your stupidity
3. that sounds like Adolf Hitler and is 100% discimination
just because you dont like golf, doesnt mean you cannot like the golfer
a gay person does not hurt or violate you in any way
"not all people are acceptable" = this is very scary talk
I hope your children turn out to be gay
and will either make your life miserable or open up your eyes
4. this totally contradicts your "Black people have fought for FREEDOM" statement
and makes you a narrow minded discriminating hypocrite racist Nazi
people like you make this world the *beep* place it is for many of us humans
Clap clap clap, well said!!
"i hope your children turn out to be gay" fantastic line!
here2bringpain have you ever heard the notion that people who are very homophobic actually have gay tendancies hmmmm.
Why is it that many posts get deleted on this site if they are offensive yet yours never seem to?
You sir, and or madame, are quite possibly the most ignorant person i've ever seen post on anything.
About homosexuality, which i can't claim to know more or less than you about, not being gay myself, as i assume you aren't, your posts are controversial and unfounded in assertions at best. While i might not be in a position to debate you on the merrits, the american medial association and society of american pediatrics do disagree with your belief, along with the american psychological association, and a host of more credible institutions than yourself.
You're analogy of homo-sexuality to golf is absurd at best. You make it seem like gay acts are simply a leisure activity. Explain why so many preists and pastors would engage in homosexuality in that case, it being a mere leisure and excess behavior?
You have no argument as to why people would sacrifice their whole lives and other friendships and family ties to live as they feel is so ordained to them, because they are gay. You make it seem like such an easy choice. IF it was so easy, then why is it so powerful, so dominant.
There are immense parallels between african american freedom movements and the freedom and equal rights movements of any minority group, including the gay community. They're both groups that have endured false science, like scientific racism (The Bell Curve, etc.), or in the case of homosexuality (any report published by jerry falwell's ministry, or most american societies on family morals).
As for Black people being almost exculsively christian, even morseo, as you claim, than other racial groups. You might be talking about african american, but i sincerely hope you're not so stupid as to believe that Blacks, or BLACKS, as you'd post, are exclusively or even largely christian. They make up, together with indonesian and southeast asians, the largest group of muslims in the world. Northern Africa, barring ethiopa and eritrea, are completely dominated by islam. Even in this country, islam has strong roots. Malcolm X, sam cooke, and a host of black panthers were all leaders in the Black Muslim movements. It seems you know as little about history as you do about science or homosexuality.
Lastly, as for the election. Get some brains. You think that more voter turnout in this election than ever implies something about a mandate against homosexuality! There was PROPORTIANALLY higher turnout across the board. Blue states got bluer, red states redder, and this election was one of the closest in the history of presidential elections. Hardly a mandate. You'd think with a mandate, the current president would have an approval rating above 50 percent, heck, at least 40 perfect... wait it's lower than that? Well, so much for a mandate. You've been as sucked into believing this propaganda as you've been gullable to believe every word of the bible as fact. Time for you to grow up and realize life for what it is, not how it's supposed to be, according to figurative langauge... do you equally believe that a man survived in a whale, or that the world was created in a matter of days, or that eve was formed out of a man's rib; ie. making her but a creation of man... ie. inherrently making her inferior. People like you have a lot to learn, and you always learn it far too late. I'm just happy i'm not blind like you. It must be such a burden to be fearful of harmless people, or even of the possibility that your kids could become gay.
PS> not hiring people because they are gay is a federal crime, following in line with federal laws meant to protect against discrimination. Thankyou equal rights act(s). They've made sure that the country can no longer be classically racist, thank god, and now they're ensuring, along the same logic, that gays and other minorities, like women (minority in sense of power) are protected from biggots like yourself.
I'm pretty sure that the bible you hold so dear would never advocate breaking federal crimes. To be honest many chirstians see the modern american laws as ordained by the will of god.
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i doubt white trash like you could even finish reading the whole thing... I'm sorry they don't make my writing in "posts on tape." Either way, i can sum your stupidity up in a few words: "you're hateful, ignorant, homophobic, and pathetic." Why don't you get a GED before you spew any more crap into writing.
shareostagov makes a good point. Here2bring hasnt really stated his case. All he has said in any of his posts any where I have read (and I have read alot of them because I consider Here2bring an amazing anomalie, a rare specimen) is that he believes that they are unacceptable, he doesnt like them, they are evil.
These arent reason for why he doent like them or why he belives they should all just go up in smoke or pull some disapearing act.
It almost seems like hates gays for the same reason the KKK hates... well... every body. and that is simply well... because. Because because.
why here2bring? Why do you hate them? Why do you feel the way you do about them? But state logical reasons... you know like, they are bad for the environment
They make lousy drivers
they cause cancer
they killer my mother
what ever. be clever if you cant think of anything. State your case.
Humor us all
As a Bush supporter, I wouldn't chalk Bush's vistory up to gay marriage. I mean, I guess there's a couple of people who voted for him because of that, but most people voted for him due to a natural favor for an incumbent ("don't switch horses", etc.), national security, or a host of other things. Also, I hate to tell you but you are far to the right of Bush and Cheney on gays. They might not agree with the lifestyle, but they DO make a point of seperating the PERSON from the lifestyle/act/whateever. You need to chill out and stop calling people "unacceptable", because quite frankly I find your point of view unacceptable.
Shepard was guilty of a lack of judgement, that's true, but he was a twenty-one-year-old college student. What young man or woman hasn't done something that, looking back on it, seemed like not the best move? I know I have. And you probably have, too. It doesn't mean that what happened to him was "coming to him" or whatnot. We, as Americans and as human beings, have a responsibility to keep our fellow Americans safe, especially when they put their trust in us. Mr. Shepard put his trust in Henderson and McKinney, and they had a duty not to harm him. That's on them, that is not on him.
As for the meth thing, I failed to see that mentioned anywhere except Fred Phelps' statements. Phelps, oh yeah, a real trustworthy source HE is.
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"There is but one just use of power and it is to serve people."
~ George W. Bush