MovieChat Forums > Shallow Hal (2001) Discussion > Brainwashed?! Give me a break, Hollywood...

Brainwashed?! Give me a break, Hollywood.


I have to laugh every time people say men are "brainwashed" when it comes to being attracted to beautiful women. Tony Robbins tells Jason Alexander's character that he's been brainwashed with how he sees beauty and attraction. Such b.s. I know in our society, if you insult a women's looks, it's so frowned upon and people (especially other women) look at you like you're a monster (even though it's okay to insult a guy's looks, apparently).

I always say to them take a young boy (hetero). Put him on an island alone with no idea of what women look like. Then, when he hits his teens bring him to the mainland, show him a fat woman, and then an unbelievably gorgeous woman and see who he's attracted to. 100% he'll be attracted to the beautiful woman. It's an instinct. It's millions of years of evolution. Yeah, people hate to hear the truth, that's why Hollywood makes cheesy, unrealistic films like this.

It's not being brainwashed. We know what we like without the influence of the media, society, Hollywood etc.



These pc-obsessed times are getting old.

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Completely agree with you.

I'm a girl and I watched this when I was a teen. I liked it back then. I watched it today and couldn't stand it. There's something pretty revolting about it and I can't really put my finger on why.

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I agree and disagree robken.

When I was very young (5yr?), before I knew what "beauty" was, I saw Honey West on TV. I knew immediately that she was beautiful and that I liked girls. (Anne Francis, Farrah Fawcett, Pam Anderson, Janet Jackson, Rhianna; the idea of beauty changes thru the ages.)

So I agree "beauty" is instilled by culture at an early age.

However, if I was alone on your deserted island, and finally saw a woman, I very well may think the heavier one would be more attractive, simply because she would look more well fed, and I would really like the idea of having more food. Survival instinct is strong, if I don't eat well, I can't reproduce.

Look at the Rubenesque portraits, when carrying extra lbs meant Wealth. Wealth meant survival; still does. The well maintained tan is desirable today, because it means you can afford to lay about in the sun. A deep tan in the Victorian era meant you worked outside. Eww, work? - commoner.

Witness the beauty of tribal women with plates stretching their lips, or rings stretching their necks.
Not Beautiful? Don't say that to their mates, you might get a poisen arrow in your butt!

So I disagree that the same standard of beauty would be held by all. It is subjective and changes thru time and culture.

Also, if you ( any man ) insult a woman's looks, it is "frowned upon" because you are being RUDE.
One simply does not insult another's looks in polite society; it's not Politically Incorrect, it's being a douche.
And paying a compliment to a lady doesn't mean yelling "Hey, Nice T!ts !

(Robbins 'hypnotizes' J.Black. Did he do it to Alexander, too?)


I prefer the toad less raveled

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I agree with you 100%, beauty and attraction are not the the same for everyone and have changed culturally through the ages(and locales).

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I'm sorry, robken, but you're essentially shallow. I'd like to know what your sampling pool was for your statistic of "100%"? Where are you getting your incorrect facts from in general? Society has been brainwashed to like a particular aesthetic. That's a fact. Sure, the wording might sound dramatic but it is what is.

If we're talking about instincts as in "primal instincts," you're way off. If we take a look throughout history the standards of beauty has varied. Thicker women were once highly sought after while the thin women, men worship today wouldn't be looked at favorably. As the latest comment said, thickness was a sign of wealth and overall health. It was difficult for people to be thicker. In some countries today, people actually add lard to their food because it's not calorie dense enough. If we also examine things further, different cultures also have wildly varying standards of beauty. Breast, for an example, don't have a sexual stigma to them. On the subject of breast, breast that are pushed up and pushed together is an unnatural appearance. Body hair on a female once wasn't offensive either. Our society's airbrushed look would look alien to some. So, if we're talking about "instinct" the teen would likely choose the larger woman. She would look overall healthier. To the teen, the vague "unbelievably gorgeous woman" would look alien-like and strange. The reasons being for all the unnatural body modifications, waxed stripped raw, thin (which if he were on an island living off the land size would not be an aesthetic it would be life or death,) and also for her bright "face paintings."
Our culture isn't only unnatural in the fact we live in a concrete jungle but also in the way we dress our bodies.

It's really funny that you mentioned you're not influenced by the media, society and Hollywood when you clearly are. We all are. You didn't pop out of the womb wanting these things. You can see the comparison within other cultures that didn't grow up around the media. That's the thing about brainwashing, you wouldn't know it's happening. The human brain is HIGHLY malleable. It can be molded without our knowledge or consent. It's not that people don't like to hear the truth, quite the contrary. The problem is people don't want to hear it when its not necessary.

The take away, leave people alone and let them be happy with themselves. People don't want to constantly hear what they're very much aware of. It's not a "I can't handle the truth!" thing. It's a "Are you that arrogant that I need YOU to tell me who I am and how I should feel about who I am???" thing. You don't need to constantly let them know in the cruelest manner possible, nor do they need to be the constant brunt of jokes. And, no, it's not wrong for them to demand that they aren't anymore.

Something interesting to note, you claim that "it's okay to insult a guy's looks apparently" in a way that you're displeased with that fact but within the next paragraph you're saying "people hate hearing the truth" Which is it? It's only okay to tell people the truth on how they appear when society (one you claim doesn't influence you) says it's okay? Obviously you hate to hear the truth yourself.

(As an additional note: I wouldn't use this movie as a basis for a deeper message. For a movie about not being shallow, it was really shallow. All the jokes were stereotypical "fat jokes." The whole bit about Rosemary taking the majority of the cake. Larger people don't necessarily eat more, some just eat terribly over time. There's also other outside factors such as health conditions. The fact that the majority of Americans are overweight is a great example of how we as humans are a product of our environment.)

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Just because someone is beautiful doesn't mean everyone is attracted to them. I see lots of beautiful and gorgeous women, but I personally like bigger women.


faith begins at the end of your comfort zone.

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You're a sausage.

Instinct influenced by evolution would cause an unindoctrinated man to favour reproducing with a mate that is going to survive through harsh times. A 200lb woman would look VERY healthy in this situation.

Before you make any more misguided assumptions, I'm male, and most of the women I find attracted are slim. But then, I've been brainwashed. Just like you.

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