MovieChat Forums > The Pianist (2003) Discussion > The holocaust could not of happen fully ...

The holocaust could not of happen fully without collaborators.


Yes while the SS and the NAZIS were the nucleus of this: there were dozens of other nations that all played a crucial hand in both finding and exterminating the Jewish people and many of them were happy to do it:

Some of the worse:

Ukraine
Hungary
Lithuania
Romania
Croatia
Bulgaria

Plus many helpers in Western Europe too.

Without these "helpers" millions of Jews could of been spared.

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I understand the sentiment but historically this is not accurate.

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I thought that Bulgaria saved all 50,000 of its Jews. That's what I've always read and seen on the internet and in historical and critically acclaimed books.

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Lol - technically this is true. Bulgaria made an agreement that they would not surrender Jews who were within the pre-war borders of Bulgaria, but with that agreement, they did surrender all of those in the territories that they were given.
As an ally of Germany, they could have refused, like Finland did.

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Many Jews fleeing the Nazi occupation were turned away by the US and other nations, but not the 'useful' ones like Einstein.
Then there is 'Operation Paper Clip'...
Also, the Luftwaffe could not fly without a fuel additive made only in the US. GM, Ford, and Chrysler all had war factories producing Nazi war machines during the war. GM successfully sued the US military post war, for bombing their nazi factories.
Don't forget that it was America's eugenics program that Hitler envied and emulated.
Hitler was TIME's 'Person of the Year 1938'.
The West is still in denial of the fact that the Anglo-Saxon political and financial establishment played a significant role in the Third Reich’s rise. Furthermore, some representatives of the British nobility even went so far as to openly support Adolf Hitler, kicking off their own fascist organizations and conspiring with Nazi Germany.Paradoxically, back in the early 1930s neither London, nor Washington considered Hitler’s Third Reich as a “threat,” facilitating the “Nazi economic miracle” and the industrial growth of the would-be military monster.

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Yes while the SS and the NAZIS were the nucleus of this: there were dozens of other nations that all played a crucial hand in both finding and exterminating the Jewish people and many of them were happy to do it:

Some of the worse:

Ukraine
Hungary
Lithuania
Romania
Croatia
Bulgaria


definitely some of the worst..example would b the Ustaše

Moderators are Nazi's....

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It's true. Many Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, and even French turned collaborator and helped the Nazis hunt down the Jews that were hiding among them.

Check out some of the books by Jan Tomasz Gross for more information on this subject. There's one about the Jedwabne massacre that is very well written and highlights a forgotten story of World War II. Others deal with what happened to Polish Jewry after the war ended, which is also a very sad story.

If you want an excellent book on WWII in Europe, check out No Simple Victory by Norman Davies. This one is focused on dispelling some of the misconceptions about World War II, especially the "making the world safe for democracy" or "WWII was the good war" kind of stuff that you hear so much of today.

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It's true


Well, it's certainly not true that "the holocaust could not of [sic] happened without collaborators". The Final Solution was a Nazi plan and influenced by no other groups or nations and the the Nazis put that plan into effect themselves regardless of the help or obstruction they got from other occupied nations. In short, the holocaust was happening whether the local populations wanted to join in the killing or join in the dying (which the local populations did both of).
I understand PDX's sentiment (betrayal by all European peoples) but his position lets the Nazi Germans off the hook and lessens their evil.

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Out of all the countries occupied by the Nazis, Poland was the only one that never had a collaborative (traitorous) government working to aid the Nazis. There were right wing nationalist militias and evil individuals among them but the Poles in general never stopped fighting, despite the worst oppressive Nazi policies and most hopeless odds of any occupied country.

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What about Denmark?

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Free Corps Denmark wiki:

Faced with potential German aerial bombing, King Christian X and the Danish government accepted "protection of the Reich" and permitted the "peaceful occupation" of the country in return for nominal political independence. The Danes began a policy of collaboration that included diplomatic and economic support of Germany. Cecil von Renthe-Fink, a German diplomat, was accredited to the Danish King and Cabinet as Reichsbevollmächtigter ("Imperial Plenipotentiary") and charged with the duty of supervising Danish government.

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This is from Wikipedia:

Fishermen charged on average 1,000 Danish kroner per person for the transport, but some charged up to 50,000 kroner. The average monthly wage at the time was less than 500 kroner, and half of the rescued Jews belonged to the working class. Prices were determined by the market principles of supply and demand, as well as by the fishermen's perception of the risk. The Danish Resistance Movement took an active role in organizing the rescue and providing financing, mostly from wealthy Danes who donated large sums of money to the endeavor. In all the rescue is estimated to have cost around 20 million kroner, about half of which were paid by Jewish families and half from donations and collections.


I never thought much of Danish assistance to the Jews once I heard it was a money-making operation. Then I found out that the Nazis walked into Denmark without a single shot fired and I pretty much lost interest in the stories of the heroism of the Danish people.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good (wo)men to do nothing.E. Burke

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This article is very illuminating:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1990/03/29/the-legend-of-king-christian-an-exchange/

It contains this exchange:

As Dr. Deak pointed out, Denmark was technically an ally of Germany, after they, under pressure, signed the Anti-Comintern Pact. For that reason, it was essential for the Resistance authorities, the Freedom Council within Denmark, and the Danish Council in exile in the U.S. and U.K., to generate propaganda emphasizing Danish opposition to Nazism. They did so with a vengeance, and the legend of the king and the Star was one of their prime pieces. One Danish Jew, who had been interred in the Theresienstadt concentration camp in Czechoslovakia, told me that he first heard the legend there, upon his arrival in 1943! Danish/Jewish pianist/ comedian Victor Borge worked for the Office of War Information, Bing Crosby’s “Kraft Music Hall,” and the MGM daily radio program “The Lion’s Roar” in the U.S. during the war, and he told the tale many times. Denmark’s wartime ambassador to the U.S., Henrik de Kauffmann, who acted independently of the Danish government during the war, told it many times. The London Evening Standard printed the story, at least once.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good (wo)men to do nothing.E. Burke

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France is arguably more guilty than most of these countries, as the were not under the same pressures as those listed (except Romania and Bulgaria).

In France, Jew were rounded up by the local police, not by the Germans. The Jews were also transported by the local railway system, again, not by the Germans. The prosecution of those involved in the transportation of Jews was an issue for decades after the war.

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This is true. Not only Jewish people, but people in general.

Historically, this is an absolute truth. But, we are not suppose to think like that. Or talk about that like it is not a real issue...

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Some of the worse:

Ukraine
Hungary
Lithuania
Romania
Croatia
Bulgaria

Plus many helpers in Western Europe too.

Without these "helpers" millions of Jews could of been spared


Yep!. The atrocities these collaborators committed made even the most seasoned Nazi cringe. Burning children alive while crucified, impalement, pulling eyes from sockets, sawing off heads, the list goes one.
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TZTM---The Jews don't own everything, the Arabs won't let them.

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