Script had holes you could drive a plane through - Heist (2001) Discussion

[–] barneygumble742 20 years ago

there's one shot of a camera angle that shows that the jet is very far from the explosion which is meant to be a distraction. and the tower asked for the pilots but soon a female voice can be heard so they moved on from these 2 pilots to her.

the shoot-out at the end...i also noticed it and its david mament i think...same could be said for certain scenes in house of games.

the whole heist was not built around the alcoholic security woman. i think she was removed so that she wont notice anything (back to your first ?)...added security for the thieves. i think hackman told her to join a program (something like AA).

i think there's a line that the rich boat buyer had...something to do with his business and not asking many questions about it. he did bring cash and a gun so you can question the source of his cash.

---
Homer: I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

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[–] jon-gwynne 20 years ago

What was the deal with the gang robbing a jet on a runway in broad daylight and nobody noticing?

The deal was that the explosion was a distraction. They set that up in the beginning of the film when they robbed the jewellery store. Many of Mamet's films are about misdirection. I suspect he is a wanna-be magician.

They could commit these robberies in broad daylight for same same reason that magicians can pull rabbits out of hats. If you get the audience to look in the wrong, place, you can get away with murder.

What was the deal with the big shoot-out near the end ... in broad daylight, in a public harbor, in a major city, and nobody noticing. Did the city just happened to be evacuated that day?

I think the point was that they were down by the commercial docks very early on a Sunday morning and the place would, therefore, be deserted.

What was the deal with the alcoholic airport security woman - who the whole heist was built around ... suddenly "leaving the movie"

The deal was that Hackman's character pushed her too hard with the booze move, she panicked and split. You saw how he had to improvise the entry to the security shed afterwards by hiding the gun in the cup of coffee. Then, later when he is asked about the plan he says "The broad went bust on me".

That was the whole point of these guys, that they were quick thinkers and could deal with alterations to their plan without having to scrap anything.

What was the deal with the rich boat buyer, who they tried to rob, who just "drove out of the movie", and never came back, and never bothered to call the police.

I think the implication was that he was a mobster. I mean, a young Italian guy with a Ferrari, loads of ready cash and who feels comfortable hauling it around and packing a gun with it... to what other conclusion could you come? Do you think a mobster is going to call the cops? Nah, he's going to go talk to some of his mobster buddies and then come back to settle things in person.

Say what you like about Mamet's scripts, but I don't see how you can call them "sloppy".

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[–] gaiderdraco 19 years ago

"- What was the deal with the rich boat buyer, who they tried to rob, who just "drove out of the movie", and never came back, and never bothered to call the police."

In case the volume on your television was off or you haven't any eyeballs, Gene hackman's character wants to retire. He was going to sell the boat to a buyer and leave the damned city and his employer (Danny DeVito). The buyer was willing as was Hackman but Sam Rockwell's character had to come back to spy on Hackman and make sure he's not going to leave town. Hackman thought that the buyer was trying to rob him but the buyer simply brought a pistol for protection. He then ran away when he got the chance because he thought Hackman was going to rob him. It's not very complicated to understand that neither planned to rob either of them. But to each other, it seemed that way.

Also, the harbor was empty and they were nowhere the street level.

Also, as mentioned earlier, the plane was not even po the runway and placed in a way that the control tower can not tell it was being robbed. While everybody was checking out the explosion, they got away with nothing, just to fool Sam Rockwell's character.

The real robebry happened later that night.

Happy now?

D.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] hecantune 19 years ago

anyone else get annoyed at the number of times someone said the word "job" or "lame" or asked "where's the gold?" no? well screw you guys.

I know what you mean but one of those was actually my favorite line of the movie: "you put your *beep* man in the street, you lamed up the job." lol Actually that was my favorite scene altogether. "Oh you're walking out on me Bobby?! You're walking out on me, you weak son-of-a-b!tch!" Sorry, I get carried away.

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[–] ggathman-1 15 years ago

Lol...this post has me seriously, completely cracking up...I totally noticed that...it's *beep* absurd, how bad this dialogue is...only a complete nerd would find this movie, to be realistic... The word lame is said, like a 30 times....lol....The job is a bust, where's the gold, you *beep* lame?!

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[–] wingsownyou 15 years ago

How bout "Nah... she went bust on me.",or, "It's burnt."

All these phrases would probably make for a pretty entertaining drinking game though, which might make the dialog a little more tolerable.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] pa74haCh 17 years ago

"In case the volume on your television was off or you haven't any eyeballs, Gene hackman's character wants to retire. He was going to sell the boat to a buyer and leave the damned city and his employer (Danny DeVito)."

You don't get to call someone else dumb when you completely missed the part where he said they were going to sell him the boat & then take off with it themselves. Or the part where they tried to convince him there was a fuel leak & the boat wouldn't be ready until morning.

The other guy was right - they were going to rob him. You're the one without "eyeballs."

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[–] cristi_lala 19 years ago

how about that crates full of gold replaced with bolts ... first how in the name of jesus did he switch them, and second ... that old fart lift them by himself ... c'mon.

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[–] director9ff 19 years ago

How did he switch them? Well, considering that Sam Rockwell's character was on the ground, and Gene Hackman was out of sight, he could have easily switched/added the labels.

As for lifting them, well, the bolts wouldn't seem that hard, considering he had to walk less than, say, 10 feet to get them to the ladder-slide thing. The real gold... hmm. I don't know. Did it show him lifting that, though?

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[–] psully99 19 years ago

"How did he switch them?"

Easy, he did not switch them. It was a totally different flight that had the gold than the one that had the bolts. The entire daylight scene was a hoax for the benefit of Rockwell's character and his gang, De Vito etc..

I think the movie's excellent. I've watched it probably 4 or 5 times by now. About the gunfight with no cops or sirens: that kind of stuff happens all the time in movies. Haven't you noticed?

I was just now watching The Spanish Prisoner, and could not figure out who the chick, Rebecca Pidgeon, was. I thought she looked like the Heist one-liner girl, but not for sure, so I checked in here. She gained a little weight. But still looks excellent. Is she always the bad girl? I never saw this movie until about a week ago. Amazing all the comedians in iut, playing bad-asses. Campell Scott, I never noticed him before I saw Roger Dodger.

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[–] tabascoman77 19 years ago

"The script had huge holes."

No, it didn't. You just weren't paying attention to the movie.

"What was the deal with the gang robbing a jet on a runway in broad daylight and nobody noticing?"

If you hadn't noticed, they were under the guise of being security guards, complete with a security TRUCK and security UNIFORMS.

"What was the deal with the big shoot-out near the end ... in broad daylight, in a public harbor, in a major city, and nobody noticing. Did the city just happened to be evacuated that day?"

I don't know about you but most docks I know aren't crowded with police officers or much of anyone in the early morning.

"What was the deal with the alcoholic airport security woman - who the whole heist was built around ... suddenly "leaving the movie"."

She was their way into the complex and she got scared off because Hackman played her to hard, hence the line, "The broad went bust on me."

"What was the deal with the rich boat buyer, who they tried to rob, who just "drove out of the movie", and never came back, and never bothered to call the police."

The dude was obviously above the law. That's number one. He's Italian, he's driving a shiny Italian automobile, he was carrying a huge bag of cash, and he had a gun on him. Joe (Hackman) was going to "sell" his boat to the guy and then leave with the cash AND the boat, too. They were going to con the guy out of his money so they could get out of the city. If you don't think that's true, then you weren't paying attention to the following dialogue:

Pinky: What're you gonna do now?
Joe: Call my boat-guy. I'm gonna sell him my boat.
Pinky: You're gonna take his cash?

That was Joe's back-up plan when the first job in the jewelry store went bust and Mickey (DeVito) screwed Joe out of his cut of the cash.

If you're still doubtful, remember when Freccia wanted to take the boat out that night when he showed up with his bag-o'-cash? Remember when Joe said that Freccia needed to put out his cigar because they accidentally cut the fuel-line and, therefore, Freccia had to come back the next day to get the boat? It was all just a take-the-money-and-run scam. They pretended to cut to fuel line so that Freccia would be delayed a day and they could take the cash, take the boat and sail out to some "tropic isle".

"The above makes Mamet's script seem like odd mix of film and "theatre". In theatre a certain "suspension of reality" is allowed. But in a gritty film like this ... it's just sloppy ... and eventually silly looking."

No, it's a mix of a con, a sleight-of-hand magic trick, and a robbery. Nowhere does theatre enter the picture save for the end when Mickey and Joe have their final "meet". It's not your run-of-the-mill action picture. It's clever, sneaky, and very good...if YOU PAY ATTENTION!!!

Sheesh.

"I don't think a nun would say that about a hill..."

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[–] Roach1039-1 19 years ago

All Joe had to do was put the boxes of bolts in the car and not the gold. The gold was tucked away back in the plane, there was no switching involved. Rockwell was down on the ground and wouldn't have seen the other cases in the plane. And he wouldn't have had to carry them later on either. He shows up as the worker who needs the gold for his boss. I'm quite sure the airline didn't make him carry the things to his car himself.

Maybe that's all a family really is; a group of people who miss the same imaginary place.

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[–] pa74haCh 17 years ago

"Easy, he did not switch them. It was a totally different flight that had the gold than the one that had the bolts. The entire daylight scene was a hoax for the benefit of Rockwell's character and his gang, De Vito etc.. "

The gold is on the plane in the boxes that are pointed out to the audience several times. Later on when he returns, remember they impounded the plane because someone attempted to steal something from it.

Getting the washers on the plane is easy, they shipped them.

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[–] cgrady-2 17 years ago

My favourite bit:

Two cops bring their car screaming to a halt. Get out waving shotguns around, telling the girl to open the back of the van. ‘Don’t you effing MOVE. Don’t you EFFING MOVE,’ etc, etc.

While all this is going on, a tow truck pulls up and the driver gets out. Pays no attention to the cops waving shotguns around. Walks up with his clipboard, like he sees cops with shotguns every day?!

I know that Mamet stylises things and that this film has its fans but come on. What a load of bollocks.

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[–] waltcosmos 16 years ago

maybe you don't see shotguns everyday...let's face it. You live in a country that makes BOLTCUTTERS illegal!!! Here in America, shotguns being waved in someones face is as common as dirt.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] SlowRain 17 years ago

What was the deal with the gang robbing a jet on a runway in broad daylight and nobody noticing?

Have you ever been to an airport that wasn't located right in a city? Have you ever seen their system of runways? They're huge! Did you notice all of the trees?

What was the deal with the big shoot-out near the end ... in broad daylight, in a public harbor, in a major city, and nobody noticing. Did the city just happened to be evacuated that day?

Who says no one noticed? The police just hadn't showed up by the time everyone was leaving. Do you expect civilians to start walking around and asking what's going on?

What was the deal with the alcoholic airport security woman - who the whole heist was built around ... suddenly "leaving the movie".

Sometimes the best laid plans go awry. Joe "never ties [his] shoes without a backup plan." Few movies bother so show these sorts of things.

What was the deal with the rich boat buyer, who they tried to rob, who just "drove out of the movie", and never came back, and never bothered to call the police.

Maybe his money wasn't entirely honest. Such a large purchase in cash is questionable to begin with, both from the buyer's and seller's points of view.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mrkil 16 years ago

You fly a plane you don't drive it.

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[–] popebambi 16 years ago

I was interested that one poster came up with the gold being on some OTHER plane, and the whole of the filmed robbery was a total con, on the 'wrong' plane, just to fool Jimmy Silk.

Presumably, the poster was confusing two different movies, or else he was creatively trying to explain a plot-point that he'd totally missed.

Hackman's character declared he needed "a month's delay" in order to do the job. In retrospect, we can see why: among other things, he wanted time to ship the washers on the same flight, so that he would have (a) boxes of washers to slide down the ladder to Jimmy Silk; and (b) a manifest that would enable him to collect his "washers" from the grounded plane once the police/security were finished with the plane as a crime-scene.

Hence, what happened during the robbery was that they opened "their" container and passed all the tins of washers down the ladder to Jimmy Silk, then emptied the bullion-box and stored the gold in the (now empty) "foundry" container...

...Which they came back and "reclaimed," later that night.

Seeing the empty bullion-box, the airport security people and the police and the audience, not unreasonably, assumed that the gold had been taken out of the bullion box and OFF THE PLANE.

But, of course, the gold was still there, simply transferred to the "foundry" box(es).

Easy-peasy.

:P

*

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[–] Wesjack2 16 years ago

popebambi = The voice of reason.

Don't post much but found this last post very worthy of a comment.

By the way -- Great flic !!
Just caught it on cable tonight. Again !!

Beer? Isn't that the amber-colored, carbonated liquid? I've heard good things about it. Norm

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[–] Reedmalloy 11 years ago

Easier than that. Like he did with the security/rental van, he simply slapped on new labels on identical shipping containers (his on the gold container, Swiss labels on his consignment). As Joe and Bobby are about to melt down the gold, the shot focuses for a few seconds on their container, in which his label is peeled away to reveal part of the Swiss marking underneath. Nothing was transferred. The bogus cases were offloaded from the jet to complete the illusion of the gold theft. The authorities were duped into thinking the empty container on the jet was the one shipped by the Swiss because it was so marked. Jimmy was duped by the fake bar Joe kept flashing around.

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[–] dio52 16 years ago

What was the deal with the gang robbing a jet on a runway in broad daylight and nobody noticing?

A) They set off an explosion. Not only was it a good distraction, but it was a good reason to stop the plane.
B) Their van was disguised as the security company's van, which might reasonably stop a jet if an explosion had just gone off near the runway.
C) The explosion was not right next to the plane, so the attention of the flight traffic controllers and emergency personnel were not directed at the plane.

oh, and the most obvious

D) The jet had the gold on it. Unless they could magically change the flight's departure time, they had to rob the plane when it was vulnerable on the tarmac. They didn't have the luxury of darkness.

What was the deal with the big shoot-out near the end ... in broad daylight, in a public harbor, in a major city, and nobody noticing. Did the city just happened to be evacuated that day?

First of all, I don't recall the location of the meet ever being specified, so it's a leap to assume it was a major city. Also, it was a small dock on a narrow river, not a major shipping harbor. If this was a dock in an industrial district of a moderately sized town, the area would very likely be deserted on a weekend, which would be an excellent time and place for such a meeting.

Also, the shootout was fairly brief, just a few minutes. Even if someone did hear it, it would take a lot longer than the shootout lasted to figure out where it was coming from, unless you just happened to be watching.

What was the deal with the alcoholic airport security woman - who the whole heist was built around ... suddenly "leaving the movie".

She panicked and went home. That's why Hackman asked the guard twice where she was. She was supposed to be there to pass Hackman through, but since she left (either from fear or embarrassment), Hackman had to knock the guy out. Practically speaking, she left as a plot device to complicate the plan, hence Hackman being "burnt" and all the discussion of why he couldn't go with the gold (because the guard would ID him after he woke up).

What was the deal with the rich boat buyer, who they tried to rob, who just "drove out of the movie", and never came back, and never bothered to call the police.

The last several times I saw this movie, I started after this point, so I'm a little foggy about this part, but wasn't the guy buying the boat not exactly legit? I seem to remember him being a shady guy himself. Or maybe he was just scared at the sight of the gun and thought that if he talked he might get killed.

"The great act of faith is when a man decides he is not God."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

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[–] tgrills 16 years ago

They blew up the ILS tower at the end of another runway. While the emergency vehicles were responding, they got to the pilot with the headset, instructing him not to contact the tower. The plane was under ground control rather than flight operations. They chose their section of the airport well (I've taxied in areas where it was remote enough from the tower as to be almost unseen what with foliage and the like).

Newark. On the docks. A shootout? Small stretch but could happen easily. People tend to ignore such noise in those areas. e.g. Miami River in FL, Tampa Docks, N.O..... could have happened but they wouldn't have spent much time with the dialogue in real life. After gunplay--run away. Axiomatic. It's a movie. Are you unclear?

Ten to one, they had to get Patti Lupone with a contract and kept her in the movie in spite of the probability that script changes removed the drunk drama from the equation. In any case, they tried to segue it when Popeye (whatever) mentioned her by name. The cop wasn't expecting trouble so he was easy to handle. A script change would be my guess and yes, it's a flaw in the continuity.

The boat buyer showed up with a bag of cash, carrying a piece. Do you really think he would be a person who would call a cop? You were just looking for things to lay against this movie.

Silly looking, eh? You have the egg on your face. It's gritty and seems to have a lot of breaks in action in it. Guess what pal, that's the way it would come down. A covert or illegal operation is planned to a t. However, when it starts, unforeseen things happen. Sometimes you get all prepared to go into action, only to need to stand down because some sentry decided to turn left today instead of right just to do something different only this mf is stepping right into the middle of the Action Area (my term).

No, it had just the right amount of confusion and battling egos doing impulsive and lame stuff. It's really like that. I know. And have the scars to prove it.

Perhaps you might try to separate your dislike for a movie from some sort of attempt (lame) at justifying your dislike by pretending you have enough knowledge, intelligence, and talent to evaluate scripts or any other form of written art. I've done the same lame stuff, too and I was wrong then.

Not now.

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